Strong Solar Power Panels igniting Birds. Stupid Global Warmer losers.

[elektra]

Dude. You're the moron posting crap from wiki that is not corroborated by ANYTHING.

Wiki's source is the EIA, the US Energy Administration Agency.

Electricity Data Browser

Your source is ... well, you don't have one. You keep saying you have these magic reports, but those reports don't say what you claim. At least you can't show any part of them that say it.

Ivanpah is in very real danger of being shut down for non production. That's REAL. If it were going along as swimmingly as you claim they wouldn't even be considering that

No, that's a fantasy you cooked up, the "non-production" thing. The problem it has is _low_ production, which would be a completely different thing. You do understand the difference between "none" and "low", right?

(Now, contract law might talk about "non-delivery", but that's a separate thing, just meaning the full contract wasn't fulfilled.)

Do you see yet how out of touch with reality you truly are?

I'm not the one refusing to post any data to support his claims, or invoking a conspiracy theory about how wiki must be faking the data. That's you. Since your argument has no data backing it up and requires a conspiracy theory to support it, that indicates you're the delusional one.

Will your response when it is shut down to deny that and claim it is still operational? Just wondering...

Is admitting you made a mistake really that hard?

This is why it's so good to be on the rational side. We don't have cult leaders ordering us to hold the line against the infidels, so we're free to admit mistakes.

So if Ivanpah works with or without natural gas, how come its failing to meet its conract obligation?
Could California’s massive Ivanpah solar power plant be forced to go dark?
.

federally backed, $2.2 billion solar project in the California desert isn’t producing the electricity it is contractually required to deliver to PG&E Corp., which says the solar plant may be forced to shut down if it doesn’t receive a break Thursday from state regulators.

 

[flacaltenn]

Wow.. BullWinkle thinks "up 170%" is always a big success... Why am I not surprised?? ?

There are FUNDAMENTAL issues with 170,000 garage door size mirrors aiming for a focal point as the sun travels. It's not as easy as it looks. And any engineer will tell you -- the reliability on all those moving parts better be spectacular.

Even the THERMAL COEFFICIENTS of expansion of the mountings and gimbals will play a part in efficient focusing. Each mirror probably requires time varying - temperature varying calibration for starters.

 

[flacaltenn]

Let me show the deniers how to find and analyze data:

Ivanpah Solar Power Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2015 Power produced -- 1,071 GW*H

2015 Natgas burned -- 1.34 million mcf

According to How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), a natgas plant typically generate 99kWH per mcf.

So, 1.34 million * 99KW*H = 133 GW*H.

1071 is bigger than 133.

Hence, Ivanpah is putting out about 8 times as much power than could come from the natgas it burns. It is very obviously generating gobs of power from solar energy.

However, it's putting out less than designed for and advertised, so it's not succeeding economically.

Deniers, of course, couldn't be bothered to run the numbers. Screeching what they were told to screech was the limit of their analytical ability.

It's not as simple as separating the partial generation by Nat Gas.

They use the Nat Gas to PRIME the solar side. So that early morning --- (less than optimal sun) time is not wasted coming up cold. It would hardly work WITHOUT the cold start priming. Would be 10AM before any appreciable energy gets generated.. Then you "restart" everytime clouds pass. And because of the fluids involved in carrying the solar concentrated heat -- there is a THRESHOLD for making any power at all..

 

[elektra]

170% increase, yet still failing to deliver the power the taxpayers were forced to invest in.

 

[elektra]

Solar Power is low hanging fruit.

Google-Owned Solar Company Requests $540 Million Bailout To Help Pay $1.6 Billion Loan

Google-Owned Solar Company Requests $540 Million Bailout To Help Pay $1.6 Billion Loan




Read more: Google-Owned Solar Company Requests $540 Million Bailout To Help Pay $1.6 Billion Loan

 

[Crick]

What does that have to do with birds being "ignited" by solar thermal systems?

PS: Google may be an investor, but the largest stakeholder is NRG and it is incorrect to imply that this system is "owned" by Google.

 

[SSDD]

How many birds died from the Exxon Valdez disaster? According to the biological services branch of US Geodetical Services agency, that spill, ranked as the 54th largest worldwide, killed 259,000 birds.

Solar's got a ways to go you ignorant fool.

So because birds die due to oil...which powers the world, it is OK to add a couple of more ways to kill them (solar and wind) which doesn't amount to much more than making greens feel good?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Bravo!!!

that is a lot of birds

 

[jon_berzerk]

Let me show the deniers how to find and analyze data:

Ivanpah Solar Power Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2015 Power produced -- 1,071 GW*H

2015 Natgas burned -- 1.34 million mcf

According to How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), a natgas plant typically generate 99kWH per mcf.

So, 1.34 million * 99KW*H = 133 GW*H.

1071 is bigger than 133.

Hence, Ivanpah is putting out about 8 times as much power than could come from the natgas it burns. It is very obviously generating gobs of power from solar energy.

However, it's putting out less than designed for and advertised, so it's not succeeding economically.

Deniers, of course, couldn't be bothered to run the numbers. Screeching what they were told to screech was the limit of their analytical ability.

It's not as simple as separating the partial generation by Nat Gas.

They use the Nat Gas to PRIME the solar side. So that early morning --- (less than optimal sun) time is not wasted coming up cold. It would hardly work WITHOUT the cold start priming. Would be 10AM before any appreciable energy gets generated.. Then you "restart" everytime clouds pass. And because of the fluids involved in carrying the solar concentrated heat -- there is a THRESHOLD for making any power at all..

Would be 10AM before any appreciable energy gets generated.

on a good day

on a thick clouded day

not so much

 

[Crick]

Yes. Do you think they didn't know that before they started?

 

[elektra]

What does that have to do with birds being "ignited" by solar thermal systems?

PS: Google may be an investor, but the largest stakeholder is NRG and it is incorrect to imply that this system is "owned" by Google.

Uh, no, it is not wrong to state Ivanpah Solar is owned by Google, when you invest in something, you own a part of it. Good thing Google can control the content of internet searches as well.

What does it have to do with birds being ignited? Without Google buying a portion of Ivanpah it would never of been built and the birds would of lived, it also shows that Google, being good liberals, really do not care about the environment, they are more about image than substance.

Speaking of substance cricket, many of your posts have zero to do with the OP, nothing, and here you got the gall to ask what a post has to do with the OP? I guess when crick can not support crick's ideology, crick becomes a hypocrite. Did any of your post's in this thread address the massive amounts of birds being killed by this failed Solar Power Plant?

 

[Billy_Bob]

The directing mirrors must be cleaned every few days... Using massive amounts of water and chemicals..

Not only is the plant high maintenance, if the directors are not cleaned regularly they will loose up ward of 50% of their reflective output... One good dusty day and the plant has major issues... And in a desert that happens about every day..

 

[flacaltenn]

The directing mirrors must be cleaned every few days... Using massive amounts of water and chemicals..

Not only is the plant high maintenance, if the directors are not cleaned regularly they will loose up ward of 50% of their reflective output... One good dusty day and the plant has major issues... And in a desert that happens about every day..

I gotta say.. NRG had a 4 yr plan for optimizing the plant. They should of CAUTIONED the investors a bit more about "the tuning" process. No doubt -- this was all over-hyped and over-sold. And now the technical team is being lynched. I know what that feels like. So they have my sympathy and support to get a "fair trial"..

But details were overlooked and due diligience in disclosing risks took a short straw and NOW the banks want their money. With all that Govt cash -- these things tend to LAUNCH before they should. Before all the RIGHT investors are on board and FULLY aware of the risks and the REAL schedule for an engineering "trial" like this.

I personally hope they get a couple years to tune it and play with it. OTHERWISE --- the conspiracy jerks will come along and claim it was killed by "big oil" or Republicans.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

 

[SSDD]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Any idea what has happened to the wildlife that lives closer to the ground than cows? what has blocking the sun from that big patch of earth done to the natural flora and fauna?

 

[Theowl32]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Any idea what has happened to the wildlife that lives closer to the ground than cows? what has blocking the sun from that big patch of earth done to the natural flora and fauna?

They are losers. They are hypocrites. They are unable to think for themselves. For Gods sake they still think the "climate change" thing is real.

I guess they have abandoned the"global warming" myth, since in fact it is no longer called that. They believe the hole in the ozone has been patched up since no one brings that up anymore. They certainly don't fear the earths end through acid rain since we do not hear anything about that anymore. Not for 30 years.

They also OBVIOUSLY abandoned the global freezing claims by their types in the early 70s.

Wrong claim after wrong claim and scam after scam revealed and they still think you and me are the knuckle dragging morons since we are not on the latest bandwagon.

They are losers. They are not worth a warm bucket of spit.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Snow doesn't hurt it huh?? How much power do you get on a day when there's even a "dusting" of snow. .If the farmer WANTS to be in the energy biz -- that's his choice. But he's only producing 6 hours a day and in a lake effect shadow up North --- about 200 days a year.

The ignorance is monumental here on the Renewy's side. A 100 years ago wind pumped WATER not electricity. And WATER can be stored -- for fuck's sake. It AINT the same thing as relying on the wind to power a 7-11 store where there is NO storage if the wind stops.. Pumping WATER is a GREAT idea for wind. If you need to have an average amount of water over a week or a month...

 

[westwall]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Snow doesn't hurt it huh?? How much power do you get on a day when there's even a "dusting" of snow. .If the farmer WANTS to be in the energy biz -- that's his choice. But he's only producing 6 hours a day and in a lake effect shadow up North --- about 200 days a year.

The ignorance is monumental here on the Renewy's side. A 100 years ago wind pumped WATER not electricity. And WATER can be stored -- for fuck's sake. It AINT the same thing as relying on the wind to power a 7-11 store where there is NO storage if the wind stops.. Pumping WATER is a GREAT idea for wind. If you need to have an average amount of water over a week or a month...

Yes, it truly is amazing the level of sheer ignorance that is displayed on this subject. When i get a dusting of snow on my panels I get ZERO, ZIP, NADA, juice.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Snow doesn't hurt it huh?? How much power do you get on a day when there's even a "dusting" of snow. .If the farmer WANTS to be in the energy biz -- that's his choice. But he's only producing 6 hours a day and in a lake effect shadow up North --- about 200 days a year.

The ignorance is monumental here on the Renewy's side. A 100 years ago wind pumped WATER not electricity. And WATER can be stored -- for fuck's sake. It AINT the same thing as relying on the wind to power a 7-11 store where there is NO storage if the wind stops.. Pumping WATER is a GREAT idea for wind. If you need to have an average amount of water over a week or a month...

Yes, it truly is amazing the level of sheer ignorance that is displayed on this subject. When i get a dusting of snow on my panels I get ZERO, ZIP, NADA, juice.

Yep.. That's what I feared.

 

[westwall]

Yeah its a big conspiracy bird deaths everywhere. Meanwhile even in the northeast solar panels are going up all over the place. There is a farmer near me that has had an array of solar panels powering his buildings going on seven years now, in a place that gets massive amounts of lake effect snow. The cows walk around it like its not even there and the snow hasn't hurt it.

I know solar isn't some panacea answer for energy but it works as a nice compliment and it isn't going away despite how much you idiots try to paint it as a detriment to society that isn't viable. Same with windmills for fuck sakes farmers have been using them for over a century and now they aren't good. lmao

Snow doesn't hurt it huh?? How much power do you get on a day when there's even a "dusting" of snow. .If the farmer WANTS to be in the energy biz -- that's his choice. But he's only producing 6 hours a day and in a lake effect shadow up North --- about 200 days a year.

The ignorance is monumental here on the Renewy's side. A 100 years ago wind pumped WATER not electricity. And WATER can be stored -- for fuck's sake. It AINT the same thing as relying on the wind to power a 7-11 store where there is NO storage if the wind stops.. Pumping WATER is a GREAT idea for wind. If you need to have an average amount of water over a week or a month...

Yes, it truly is amazing the level of sheer ignorance that is displayed on this subject. When i get a dusting of snow on my panels I get ZERO, ZIP, NADA, juice.

Yep.. That's what I feared.

That's way more than a dusting. I meant it when I said "dusting". Just the slightest bit and we get nothing. We have loads of dust here as well. I clean the panels once a week and my normal efficiency is around 11%. By day two that has dropped to 9%. By day seven it is hovering between 4 and 5%. Granted my panels are older than dirt, but even the modern ones have trouble with the dust.

One of the schools in Carson City got a huge solar array and they used to have the real time energy production graph piped to the City Hall so that everyone could see it. That lasted for all of a month when they saw how bad they were doing they disconnected the live feed. Chickens!