States with teachers unions have the best test scores

[Trajan]

Mapping NYC graduation rates | GothamSchools

The liberal mecca of NYC - graduation rates-- PATHETIC, substandard, outright embarassing-- LIBERALISM AND GOVERNMENT intrusion at it's finest.. turning America's kids in to ignorant drop outs and illiterate morons.


On Monday, New York State released the most recent graduation rate data. How did the community school districts fare? Schools located in two districts had graduation rates of more than 70%: District 26 (73%) and District 13 (76%). At the other end of the spectrum, three districts posted 4-year graduation rates of less than 40 percent — District 18 (32%), District 16 (34%), and District 19 (39%).

hey, try collating the poorest performing districts with the membership of the black congressional caucus......

 

[Cuyo]

Why because an absolute retard such as yourself says so? Your posts totally contradict your absurd claim.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You're just a shining example of right wing intelligence, aren't you?

There are exceptions of course, as there are to every rule. You, my really dimwitted but possibly well-intentioned friend, are not one of them.

You're the one posting idiotic and utter nonsense while simultaneously claiming to be smarter than everyone else. I have not claimed to be smarter than every one.... but I can tell you this, I'm sharper than you even on my foggiest day.

Now, go smoke some more weed and leave us alone.

This is the last I'll have to say about the topic... #1, it's a fact, not a debate. #2, when arguing this fact, my guess is that intelligent conservatives would hide from idiots like you... You're the "Them" when intelligent conservatives say "We're not all like them."

 

[shintao]

I think due to personal responsibility that each parent should bear the full cost of educating their child.

My property taxes would drop by over 50%

But, but... what about the poor?

Oh, they would get a job adjusting your drip down at the old folks home.

 

[Trajan]

'Waiting for Superman".....go see it. or order it on pay per view....make your own decision.

 

[WillowTree]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You're just a shining example of right wing intelligence, aren't you?

There are exceptions of course, as there are to every rule. You, my really dimwitted but possibly well-intentioned friend, are not one of them.

You're the one posting idiotic and utter nonsense while simultaneously claiming to be smarter than everyone else. I have not claimed to be smarter than every one.... but I can tell you this, I'm sharper than you even on my foggiest day.

Now, go smoke some more weed and leave us alone.

This is the last I'll have to say about the topic... #1, it's a fact, not a debate. #2, when arguing this fact, my guess is that intelligent conservatives would hide from idiots like you... You're the "Them" when intelligent conservatives say "We're not all like them."

you pick peas don't you?

 

[Dot Com]

Aren't conservatives against public schools altogether?

Yes, but most of them at least have enough brain cells not to declare so openly, because they know it's lunacy.

Public Schools are the most prominent example of socialism we have in this country. Conservatives almost universally are opposed to ANYTHING socialist (except the military)

...therefore, yes, of course they are opposed to the public schools.

If Conservatives were ever able to get into real power (which thank goodness they never will) they would get rid of public schools altogether.

You have to realize that the lunacy of conservatism sometimes doesn't show itself that well, but that's only because they rarely if ever get enough power to actually implement their agenda.

Aww man, you're right. Bucs, Willow, and "The T" are really propping up your side of the argument here!

Oh and Soggy... Holy shit let us nigh forget Soggy.

Those three are gems

That is bullshit. Pure. Simple. Bullshit.

ummm... I'm sorry if it's incompatible with your POV, but it's a fact. It's been true throughout history.

edit: Perhaps it would be more proper to say that intelligent people tend to be more liberal. Back to the causation vs. correlation argument.

the more educated people are the more liberal they tend to be, that is fact.

This is beyond dispute

No disputing that.
ummm... I'm sorry if it's incompatible with your POV, but it's a fact. It's been true throughout history.

edit: Perhaps it would be more proper to say that intelligent people tend to be more liberal. Back to the causation vs. correlation argument.

the more educated people are the more liberal they tend to be, that is fact.

Both IQ and level of formal education are inversely related to the predisposition to conservatism. It's not a question, debate, or opinion, guys, it's just the way it is.

Most college repubs are just kool aid drinking Randians anyway.

 

[WillowTree]

'Waiting for Superman".....go see it. or order it on pay per view....make your own decision.

Thank you so much. I couldn't for the life of me think of it.

 

[Tea Bag Partier]

Why do countries with the best education systems on the planet, have unionized teachers, and tenure systems, if unions are supposedly the problem?

Maybe its because unions aren't really the problem with education. I can understand how after reading the Rush Limbaugh website for ten years, some dupe might come to that conclusion.

But if other countries have unionized teachers, value them, and pay them extremely well (in some european countries teachers are paid as well as business people), why are the education systems working very well there, in spite of the allegedly horrific presence of unions?


Maybe if you ignore the Sean Hannity website for five minutes, maybe you might consider there's a host of other problems with american education. That movie conservatives love, Waiting For Superman, makes it a point to say how awesome Finland's education system is. Finland has a strong teachers union and tenure, but Finland also values and supports teachers and children in a way the U.S. doesn't. Its been proven in study after study that universal subsidized day care, universal pre-school, and outstanding universal health care help children achieve better results. The lack of poverty, a generous social welfare state, the value Finland places on teachers, and the support it gives parents with free day care, universal healthcare, and pre-school are obviously something we don't have. And we probably should.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Aren't conservatives against public schools altogether?

Yes, but most of them at least have enough brain cells not to declare so openly, because they know it's lunacy.

Public Schools are the most prominent example of socialism we have in this country. Conservatives almost universally are opposed to ANYTHING socialist (except the military)

...therefore, yes, of course they are opposed to the public schools.

If Conservatives were ever able to get into real power (which thank goodness they never will) they would get rid of public schools altogether.

You have to realize that the lunacy of conservatism sometimes doesn't show itself that well, but that's only because they rarely if ever get enough power to actually implement their agenda.

Those three are gems

This is beyond dispute

the more educated people are the more liberal they tend to be, that is fact.

Both IQ and level of formal education are inversely related to the predisposition to conservatism. It's not a question, debate, or opinion, guys, it's just the way it is.

Most college repubs are just kool aid drinking Randians anyway.

First off genius, you need to stop equating Republicans with Conservatives. Second, you need to break out of your little theoretical utopia that you exist in and read up on conservatism.. not the blue-blood country club type, which is indistinguishable from leftist, progressive dogma. Finally, some of the dumbest people I've met I met in college.. you know... the asshats who spend 20 years in college, getting useless degree after another, for fear they might have to go out in the world and actually do something.

So.. take a fucking breath and get over yourself. You ain't all that smart sonny.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And further more, truly smart people don't have the need to shout it from the rooftops every hour on the hour. That is reserved for needy dipshits with no self confidence who need constant affirmation that they are not really as stupid as they think they are.

 

[Dot Com]

First off genius, you need to stop equating Republicans with Conservatives. Second, you need to break out of your little theoretical utopia that you exist in and read up on conservatism.. not the blue-blood country club type, which is indistinguishable from leftist, progressive dogma. Finally, some of the dumbest people I've met I met in college.. you know... the asshats who spend 20 years in college, getting useless degree after another, for fear they might have to go out in the world and actually do something.

So.. take a fucking breath and get over yourself. You ain't all that smart sonny.

Those "blue bloods" you speak of, count on the votes from their 30% repub base who are kool aid drinkers to a great extent who "watch" their news or rather are spoon-fed it from RuperTV. You can't have one w/o the other.

P.S.- I might very well be older than you so stop making ASSumptions.

 

[Agit8r]

Correlation does not suggest causation. In this case, bucs is right. Liberals are generally more intelligent than conservatives; Liberals tend to be pro-union. Hence, there is a noticeable correlation, but it is not necessarily because one causes the other.

No, it's a well documented but contraversial study, group of studies, that links test scores to race. He opened this box, now he's gonna have to discuss it.

Almost 60% of African Americans live in the South, where most low test scoring states are, and are also non-union.

The correlation is with race and test scores, not unions. Which, btw, also goes along a poverty/test score study.

this suggests to me that average lower test scores by blacks have more to do with their being educated in southern states

 

[Stephanie]

Aren't conservatives against public schools altogether?

Yes, but most of them at least have enough brain cells not to declare so openly, because they know it's lunacy.

Public Schools are the most prominent example of socialism we have in this country. Conservatives almost universally are opposed to ANYTHING socialist (except the military)

...therefore, yes, of course they are opposed to the public schools.

If Conservatives were ever able to get into real power (which thank goodness they never will) they would get rid of public schools altogether.

You have to realize that the lunacy of conservatism sometimes doesn't show itself that well, but that's only because they rarely if ever get enough power to actually implement their agenda.

OMG. fer sure man, we want to get rid of Public schools. We already have plans on what we are going to do with the Public school buildings.
can we have some twilight zone music.

 

[WillowTree]

Aren't conservatives against public schools altogether?

Yes, but most of them at least have enough brain cells not to declare so openly, because they know it's lunacy.

Public Schools are the most prominent example of socialism we have in this country. Conservatives almost universally are opposed to ANYTHING socialist (except the military)

...therefore, yes, of course they are opposed to the public schools.

If Conservatives were ever able to get into real power (which thank goodness they never will) they would get rid of public schools altogether.

You have to realize that the lunacy of conservatism sometimes doesn't show itself that well, but that's only because they rarely if ever get enough power to actually implement their agenda.

OMG. fer sure man, we want to get rid of Public schools. We already have plans on what we are going to do with the Public school buildings.

 

[Tea Bag Partier]

Correlation does not suggest causation. In this case, bucs is right. Liberals are generally more intelligent than conservatives; Liberals tend to be pro-union. Hence, there is a noticeable correlation, but it is not necessarily because one causes the other.

No, it's a well documented but contraversial study, group of studies, that links test scores to race. He opened this box, now he's gonna have to discuss it.

Almost 60% of African Americans live in the South, where most low test scoring states are, and are also non-union.

The correlation is with race and test scores, not unions. Which, btw, also goes along a poverty/test score study.

this suggests to me that average lower test scores by blacks have more to do with their being educated in southern states

It was also curious to me that the immediate, and almost genetic reaction from republicans was to blame blacks.


Deep red states that have very low black populations, like Oklahoma and West Virginia have horrible public education. I don't think black people are to blame for Oklahoma's dumb ass education system. Like you, I assumed black people in the south are getting shit educations, because the majority of working class whites in the south are also getting shit educations too. Every race gets screwed down there.

I also imagine that a black person living in Vermont or Maine are getting superior educations, to their southern black peers.

 

[uscitizen]

I think due to personal responsibility that each parent should bear the full cost of educating their child.

My property taxes would drop by over 50%

But, but... what about the poor?

What about them?

 

[blu]

Now conservative governors and mayors want to abolish teachers' right to due process, their seniority, and -- in some states -- their collective bargaining rights. Right-to-work states do not have higher scores than states with strong unions. Actually, the states with the highest performance on national tests are Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Vermont, and New Hampshire, where teachers belong to unions that bargain collectively for their members.

Unions actively lobby to increase education funding and reduce class size, so conservative governors who want to slash education spending feel the need to reduce their clout. This silences the best organized opposition to education cuts.

There has recently been a national furor about school reform. One must wonder how it is possible to talk of improving schools while cutting funding, demoralizing teachers, cutting scholarships to college, and increasing class sizes.

The real story in Madison is not just about unions trying to protect their members' hard-won rights. It is about teachers who are fed up with attacks on their profession. A large group of National Board Certified teachers -- teachers from many states who have passed rigorous examinations by an independent national board -- is organizing a march on Washington in July. The events in Madison are sure to multiply their numbers.

Why America's teachers are enraged - CNN.com

now you need to prove why unions are the cause for this

 

[uscitizen]

And further more, truly smart people don't have the need to shout it from the rooftops every hour on the hour. That is reserved for needy dipshits with no self confidence who need constant affirmation that they are not really as stupid as they think they are.

the reason for Becks following then?

 

[NotImpressed]

Let me help you. The sole function of a union is to negotiate better working conditions - including salary, benefits, work rules, job security - for its members.

The better the working conditions are, the more attractive the job is. The more attractive the job is,

the more likely it is to attract a better quality of person to do the job. Much work and cost goes into qualifying to be a teacher; if the same amount of work and cost can qualify a person for a better job with better of the above,

that person may not choose teaching.

It's a simple exercise in market forces.

If you care about the quality of person you get into the teaching profession, then you have to be willing to compete for that quality. A teaching job with relatively low pay, benefits, job security, etc., is not competitive.

Bullshit. Teachers unions exist to protect substandard teachers in declining and corrupt public school systems.

Private and Parochial schools deliver better education, at a lower cost and guess what? The teachers aren't unionized.

Teachers unions exist only to protect the substandard teachers in them?

BULLSHIT.

that is like saying that the Catholic religion only exists to protect pedophile priests.
Which is also BS.

Not solely to protect sub-par teachers but it's a big part of the problem in the democrat/union/teacher relationship. It's a scratch my back & I'll scratch yours arrangement. The democrats get votes from unionized teachers. Unions lobby & make large contributions to elected officials & candidates. Palms get greased & voila,the money machine keeps rolling. In the process,teachers that are substandard get the same protection as the ones who are doing their job to the level of their pay or better. Even the ones who are too stupid to teach our children are just barely smart enough to know not to resist or bite the hands that feed them. By the stats vs other countries who are kicking our ass in the education race,the obvious assessment is that the majority of our teachers suck. Countries that pay their teachers much less & spend much less on education are making us look like we only have a special education system in comparison. Common sense should be screaming get rid of unions & the dead weight will go with them. But liberals who claim to value education so much also claim to be more intelligent than conservatives.

 

[Agit8r]

Bullshit. Teachers unions exist to protect substandard teachers in declining and corrupt public school systems.

Private and Parochial schools deliver better education, at a lower cost and guess what? The teachers aren't unionized.

Teachers unions exist only to protect the substandard teachers in them?

BULLSHIT.

that is like saying that the Catholic religion only exists to protect pedophile priests.
Which is also BS.

Not solely to protect sub-par teachers but it's a big part of the problem in the democrat/union/teacher relationship. It's a scratch my back & I'll scratch yours arrangement. The democrats get votes from unionized teachers. Unions lobby & make large contributions to elected officials & candidates. Palms get greased & voila,the money machine keeps rolling. In the process,teachers that are substandard get the same protection as the ones who are doing their job to the level of their pay or better. Even the ones who are too stupid to teach our children are just barely smart enough to know not to resist or bite the hands that feed them. By the stats vs other countries who are kicking our ass in the education race,the obvious assessment is that the majority of our teachers suck. Countries that pay their teachers much less & spend much less on education are making us look like we only have a special education system in comparison. Common sense should be screaming get rid of unions & the dead weight will go with them. But liberals who claim to value education so much also claim to be more intelligent than conservatives.

"Countries that pay their teachers much less & spend much less on education"

and which countries would that be?