States with teachers unions have the best test scores

[gautama]

There is a helluva lot of BULLSHIT given for the success of Catholic Private Schools vs Public Schools.

The Primary Reason for the success of the Catholic Schools is twofold: RESPECT & DISCIPLINE.

The teachers in Public Education are, basically, POWERLESS in their control of the students.

This is especially evident in "Ghetto Schools" where students (on the average: non-convicted thugs) are simply in holding pens.

In those pigstys education is a joke.

 

[rdean]

Correlation does not suggest causation. In this case, bucs is right. Liberals are generally more intelligent than conservatives; Liberals tend to be pro-union. Hence, there is a noticeable correlation, but it is not necessarily because one causes the other.

No, it's a well documented but contraversial study, group of studies, that links test scores to race. He opened this box, now he's gonna have to discuss it.

Almost 60% of African Americans live in the South, where most low test scoring states are, and are also non-union.

The correlation is with race and test scores, not unions. Which, btw, also goes along a poverty/test score study.

90% of all the Jethros and Ellie Mae's in the world live in the south. They're not black.

I suspect only 6% of scientists live in the south.

Why does the right care about education anyway? They only want to bring it down. Not a single suggestion on how to improve it and lots of ways to ruin worse than they already have. Besides, most of their kids drop out and most of the ones who want to go can't afford it. Their leaders have made sure of that.

 

[midcan5]

Americans worship money, and guys and girls who are good with balls, sports that is. Look only at the burbs and organized sports, every Joanie and Johnie is going be a super star and make millions. Sports and TV in America are the big brother of Orwell's fantasy, only now the people are unaware that it is the watching and not the watchers that controls their minds. A real education in America would need to break the mental dependency on Sunday football and cop shows. See piece below and they are unionized too.

Finland "Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries." Lessons From Finland: The Way to Education Excellence | Common Dreams

"At the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...liberals-in-the-classroom-11.html#post1749647


"The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness. Sweden now spends nearly 4 percent of GDP on R&D, the highest ratio in the world today. On average, the Nordic nations spend 3 percent of GDP on R&D, compared with around 2 percent in the English-speaking nations." Jeffrey D. Sachs The Social Welfare State, beyond Ideology: Scientific American

 

[grunt11b]

Now conservative governors and mayors want to abolish teachers' right to due process, their seniority, and -- in some states -- their collective bargaining rights. Right-to-work states do not have higher scores than states with strong unions. Actually, the states with the highest performance on national tests are Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Vermont, and New Hampshire, where teachers belong to unions that bargain collectively for their members.

Unions actively lobby to increase education funding and reduce class size, so conservative governors who want to slash education spending feel the need to reduce their clout. This silences the best organized opposition to education cuts.

There has recently been a national furor about school reform. One must wonder how it is possible to talk of improving schools while cutting funding, demoralizing teachers, cutting scholarships to college, and increasing class sizes.

The real story in Madison is not just about unions trying to protect their members' hard-won rights. It is about teachers who are fed up with attacks on their profession. A large group of National Board Certified teachers -- teachers from many states who have passed rigorous examinations by an independent national board -- is organizing a march on Washington in July. The events in Madison are sure to multiply their numbers.

Why America's teachers are enraged - CNN.com

Where are the statistics backing up your assumption that teachers that our unionized have better test scores? I bet you can't provide that can you? Just another hack.

 

[Claudette]

'Waiting for Superman".....go see it. or order it on pay per view....make your own decision.

Thank you so much. I couldn't for the life of me think of it.

Saw it.

Great eye opener. Should have been up for an Oscar but of course the idiots who pick em didn't see it that way. Might interrupt their liberal view of things.

Makes you wonder what they do with the money we dump into the bottomless pit of education???

 

[Harry Dresden]

well i live in a pretty liberal State that has Teachers Unions.....when i first came out here in 68.....my folks were told that California was # 4 in the Nation in Educational quality......now the last i heard they were something like # 48.....what the hell happened?....

That does kind of blow the OP theme apart, doesn't it?

but you notice dicks like Dean never have an answer for that ...just excuses...i notice that whenever i bring up California in other threads he will have some far fetched reason for the why....its kinda hard for the guy when you cant lay the blame totally on Republicans.....he cant imagine Democrats fucking up.....especially with something like Education...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Republicans don't care about teachers or education. They just want someone to "blame" and "hate". I didn't see this coming. In the last couple of years, it's been Hispanics, Muslims, gays, the government and blacks. Lately, it's been women's rights and teachers. I would have thought they would stay with Hispanics and Muslims. I was surprised they singled out a group that has such little impact. Of course, so do Muslims and gays so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.

Well, they're dumb fucks. Their policies are a disaster. They fail at everything they touch, except bringing the country down. So at least they're consistent.

Sweetie, repetitive stupidity is not a good thing. I don't blame your political ideology for your stupidity, I blame your lack of intellect. But, at least you are consistent..... consistently stupid, consistently a liar, consistently a race baiting fool.

I find it offensive that you will, day in and day out, lie like a politician about how Republicans 'hate' gays, hispanics, Muslims, blacks or anyone else. This is bullshit, it is deliberate fear mongering put about by moronic, racist politicians to further their political agenda. I hope that you do honestly believe it though, because if you do believe it, it just makes you stupid. If you don't believe it, but you repeat it anyway.... well.... that makes you a racist.

"lie like a politician"......Dean does fit in with those people doesnt he?....he sure as hell spreads untruths about people like they do....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The funny thing is conservatives think that paying teachers less is magically going to make teachers better. Wrong.

The best want to be compensated. Some of those really good teachers leave to work for tutoring services because they make more. You want an all around educated workforce, you need to have the best teach in schools.

thats not what the argument is about .....show me where ANYONE has said if you pay a teacher less they will be better....dishonest asshole...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Kids who are home-schooled out perform those taught in public schools.

teachers unions have nothing to do with education.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why does the right care about education anyway? They only want to bring it down. Not a single suggestion on how to improve it and lots of ways to ruin worse than they already have. Besides, most of their kids drop out and most of the ones who want to go can't afford it. Their leaders have made sure of that.

hey dickhead.....how come you never have your wondrous links when you make your bullshit statements like this?......show me a link Dean where someone on the Right has said Education is not important.....you say this enough.....but NEVER a link...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The funny thing is conservatives think that paying teachers less is magically going to make teachers better. Wrong.

The best want to be compensated. Some of those really good teachers leave to work for tutoring services because they make more. You want an all around educated workforce, you need to have the best teach in schools.

The really funny thing is liberals think that paying them more magically makes bad teachers into good teachers. Most conservatives are just tired of throwing good money after bad results.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

90% of all the Jethros and Ellie Mae's in the world live in the south. They're not black.

Jethro and Ellie Mae moved to Beverly Hills with uncle Jed

I suspect only 6% of scientists live in the south.

NASA is in the south, and I would not be surprised at all if all the scientist who work for NASA are Republicans considering the Democrats track record with wanting to kill off NASA funding.

Why does the right care about education anyway? They only want to bring it down. Not a single suggestion on how to improve it and lots of ways to ruin worse than they already have. Besides, most of their kids drop out and most of the ones who want to go can't afford it. Their leaders have made sure of that.

The left has been in charge of education for decades, and the clear result is things just get worse. Look at California and the way its graduates become less and less relevant as their test scores and academic standing drops more every year.

Even if the right's goal is to destroy education you should support putting them in charge of it. According to you they cannot do anything right, so they will probably make things better in their attempt to make things worse. They certainly cannot do any worse than your side has.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Kids who are home-schooled out perform those taught in public schools.

teachers unions have nothing to do with education.

Unions are all about protecting the like-minded mediocre from the perils of free markets and competition. PERIOD.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

well i live in a pretty liberal State that has Teachers Unions.....when i first came out here in 68.....my folks were told that California was # 4 in the Nation in Educational quality......now the last i heard they were something like # 48.....what the hell happened?....

That does kind of blow the OP theme apart, doesn't it?

but you notice dicks like Dean never have an answer for that ...just excuses...i notice that whenever i bring up California in other threads he will have some far fetched reason for the why....its kinda hard for the guy when you cant lay the blame totally on Republicans.....he cant imagine Democrats fucking up.....especially with something like Education...

What can you expect, he is just like the scorpion who got the toad to carry him across the river.

 

[Charles_Main]

You are opening up a nasty bag of worms by going that route man.

But you opened it. Look at the demographics of those states vs the demographics of the bottom 10.

Then, compare each school district within each right to work state, and compare the in-state demographics.

You'll learn unions have nothing to do with it.

You are asking a committed Ideologue to use Logic and Reasoning.

Don't hold you breath.

 

[chanel]

Breaking News; Schools with Best Students Have the Best Test Scores!

 

[The T]

Kids who are home-schooled out perform those taught in public schools.

teachers unions have nothing to do with education.

Unions are all about protecting the like-minded mediocre from the perils of free markets and competition. PERIOD.

Hell these same liberals took away recess and have adminished Games that are competitive...

these people are looney-tunes. They don't WANT competition in any sector of society. Their way or the highway. We've seen it for decades.

 

[DiveCon]

That does kind of blow the OP theme apart, doesn't it?

but you notice dicks like Dean never have an answer for that ...just excuses...i notice that whenever i bring up California in other threads he will have some far fetched reason for the why....its kinda hard for the guy when you cant lay the blame totally on Republicans.....he cant imagine Democrats fucking up.....especially with something like Education...

What can you expect, he is just like the scorpion who got the toad to carry him across the river.

actually, in that story, wouldn't rdean be the toad and the democrats be the scorpion?

 

[gautama]

Republicans don't care about teachers or education. They just want someone to "blame" and "hate". I didn't see this coming. In the last couple of years, it's been Hispanics, Muslims, gays, the government and blacks. Lately, it's been women's rights and teachers. I would have thought they would stay with Hispanics and Muslims. I was surprised they singled out a group that has such little impact. Of course, so do Muslims and gays so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.

Well, they're dumb fucks. Their policies are a disaster. They fail at everything they touch, except bringing the country down. So at least they're consistent.

Sweetie, repetitive stupidity is not a good thing. I don't blame your political ideology for your stupidity, I blame your lack of intellect. But, at least you are consistent..... consistently stupid, consistently a liar, consistently a race baiting fool.

I find it offensive that you will, day in and day out, lie like a politician about how Republicans 'hate' gays, hispanics, Muslims, blacks or anyone else. This is bullshit, it is deliberate fear mongering put about by moronic, racist politicians to further their political agenda. I hope that you do honestly believe it though, because if you do believe it, it just makes you stupid. If you don't believe it, but you repeat it anyway.... well.... that makes you a racist.

"lie like a politician"......Dean does fit in with those people doesnt he?....he sure as hell spreads untruths about people like they do....

Rdeanie-weenie, the certifiable Obamarrhoidal stooge represents what LIEberrhoidism stands for.

I doubt if you can pick a more quintessential LibTURD except those with a lower IQ who are probably indistinguishable from crazies who probably reside in Loonie bins .....TDM, her racial counterpart Bass the Racist Ass come to mind.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Aren't conservatives against public schools altogether?

Definitely. They're even on the warpath against the Dept of Education fer chrisakes.

....apparently they believe mom's Kitchen Table High School is all any 3d World country needs, eh?