Something that I think deserves it's own thread.

[YoursTruly]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.

They are against it because the democrats are for it.

What each party does and does not support becomes less connected with reality or ideology by the day and is becoming more about the opposite of what the other side wants. What each side claims as the basis of their ideology has little to do with what they specifically support anymore.

The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It used to be that the republicans were the party of small business, and the democrats were the party of the working man.

Today, the attitude for both is fuck small business and fuck the working man.

 

[The Duke]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

This OP is designed solely to divide Republicans.

 

[Concerned American]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling Tmore times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

You are making hay over the right raising the debt ceiling. Please link those times that the right did that. While you're at it, please inform us which party controlled congress at the times your "gotcha" targets a GOP POTUS.

 

[FA_Q2]

You are making hay over the right raising the debt ceiling. Please link those times that the right did that. While you're at it, please inform us which party controlled congress at the times your "gotcha" targets a GOP POTUS.

Ah, the general canned response. When the left spends money they are spending money. When the right spends money it is actually the left spending money. The right has never spent money, ever.

 

[FA_Q2]

To the OP, I doubt you can get any actual discussion on this particular topic. It is the very nature of partisanship to be utterly blind to it. And the vast majority of people on this board, both left and right, are extremely partisan. Of the few that are not, half are just flat out insane.

 

[Thunk]

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem,

You conveniently forget how pissed off Trump was at his first budget he signed. It was either give democrats every cent they wanted or destroy Trumps presidency in the first month due to lack of funds.

I don't argue that repubs are no longer fiscally conservative...but you picked a BS example!

 

[FA_Q2]

You conveniently forget how pissed off Trump was at his first budget he signed. It was either give democrats every cent they wanted or destroy Trumps presidency in the first month due to lack of funds.

I don't argue that repubs are no longer fiscally conservative...but you picked a BS example!

And his second?

And his third?

How many times does he have to sign massive expansive budgets before you give him any accountability for his actions?

He outspent every president before him, like they all do. No different than the left.

The right no longer has any ground to stand on in overspending because no one actually takes them seriously. When given the power, they increase spending every single time.

 

[YoursTruly]

You conveniently forget how pissed off Trump was at his first budget he signed. It was either give democrats every cent they wanted or destroy Trumps presidency in the first month due to lack of funds.

I don't argue that repubs are no longer fiscally conservative...but you picked a BS example!

The first spending bill he signed, $1.4 TRILLION was with a GOP majority in the House and Senate. As a fiscal conservative, right of center, I thoroughly objected Trump for that one, and all the others. Plus his 2 debt ceiling increases and his 2 year debt ceiling suspension. And his bump stock ban. And his $350 billion Saudi weapons deal. The deal he made with Saudi, Mexico and US oil producers to REDUCE oil production.

I also objected to almost everything Biden has done.

I don't pick BS examples.

 

[YoursTruly]

And his second?

And his third?

How many times does he have to sign massive expansive budgets before you give him any accountability for his actions?

He outspent every president before him, like they all do. No different than the left.

The right no longer has any ground to stand on in overspending because no one actually takes them seriously. When given the power, they increase spending every single time.

All good points. But that's not really the subject of this thread. It's not to hash out what presidents done wrong. It's more about the loyalty of the people who stand behind them, even when they do something their supporters disagree with.

Revenge politic? Or is it because so many people love to argue.

 

[Thunk]

was with a GOP majority in the House and Senate.

You do pick BS examples because that is an obfuscation!

You know damn well the repubs couldn't get ANYTHING thru the senate because they needed 60 votes to pass ANYTHING.

While the repubs had the majority (over 50) they did not have 60 votes.

Another convenient laps of memory?

 

[YoursTruly]

It used to be that the republicans were the party of small business, and the democrats were the party of the working man.

Today, the attitude for both is fuck small business and fuck the working man.

Right. But the question remains, how did we get this way? What happened that allowed us to be so divided and just stop trying to work things out.
Back when the R & Ds did that, they helped to build the worlds greatest economy, the worlds largest middle class, we were the manufacturing giant of the world.

And now, it's just bicker and fight over things that really don't even affect our lives, because one party or politician says so.
How did the left stop caring about the American working man? Why did the right stop caring about the debt ceiling and the value of the USD. And 1,000 other things those two have slipped or flipped on?

 

[YoursTruly]

You do pick BS examples because that is an obfuscation!

You know damn well the repubs couldn't get ANYTHING thru the senate because they needed 60 votes to pass ANYTHING.

While the repubs had the majority (over 50) they did not have 60 votes.

Another convenient laps of memory?

Trump has a veto pen. One he only used on 1 spending bill in his entire 4 years. There was no one holding a gun to his head.
He didn't reject the debt ceiling increases, he welcomed them. Saying "we can never default. We can just print more money."

Seriously, if you're actually trying to make Trump out to be a fiscal conservative, you're F'in brainwashed bro. Like bad brainwashed.

Again, 1 spending bill veto in 4 years. That's not even close to fiscally conservative. That's not even being upset about spending.

 

[YoursTruly]

This OP is designed solely to divide Republicans.

Wrong. Not even close.

In order to fix a problem, one has to realize there is a problem. That's the point. Neither sides wants to admit their side even has a problem.
That's called loyalty. And it's something party officials in the USSR were subjected to. We have the freedom to object to our own party's retarded ways and try to fix it.
This is what Ron Paul tried to do. It's what Tulsi Gabbard tried to do in the democrat party. But neither side wanted to even admit their was a problem, so both of them (and others) just got discredited in the media and thrown under their party's bus.

And in turn, us voters got stuck with two corrupt and lying parties to vote for.

 

[YoursTruly]

You are making hay over the right raising the debt ceiling. Please link those times that the right did that. While you're at it, please inform us which party controlled congress at the times your "gotcha" targets a GOP POTUS.

I'm making hay over the fact that too many people just go along with their party, regardless of what they do. The debt ceiling was just an example.

 

[MaryL]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

True. Trump is rather problematic. But we got liberal democrats giving sanctuary to illegal aliens without bothering to ask us, notify Americans, nope. They did it on the fly like sneakthief's unilaterally without out the voter bases knowledge or permission. You tell me that is how democracy is supposed to work. Because I think not.

 

[whitehall]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

Yeah right, you can make some profound assumptions about the political climate but the dirty little secret is that it's all about propaganda and the people who are in charge of propaganda, the mainstream media, are the willing accomplices of the democrat party. We might be on the verge of nuclear war and we have a drooling mentally impaired leader at the helm and the media ignores it and concentrates on destroying the former president.

 

[JGalt]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

The Democrat Party has never been the party of "border security."

 

[Oddball]

The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism.

When?

They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives.

They always have, but were lying.

But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.

You act like that's news.

 

[rampart]

Ah, the general canned response. When the left spends money they are spending money. When the right spends money it is actually the left spending money. The right has never spent money, ever.

a corollary of "murc's law," that only democrats have agency or responsibility for governing.