Some of My Favorite Bible Verses - Paraphrased

[Sky Dancer]

Okay so the outsource thing. That's a legitimate view and I often wonder about it. I donate money out of every fee our firm collects but I often wonder if it's enough.
Do you believe all those people who are genuinely in need would be provided for, without the help of government?
Maybe they would. The question is "If people saved a lot of money in taxes because we didn't have programs to help say, the blind for example, would they take that extra money and donate it to helping the blind?"

It's tough and I don't claim to have the "right" answer here because I don't know if there is one. I've lived in countries where there are little in the way of social programs and a lot in the way of rich people. It was always very sad to see what happened to those in need. Would our country do better? I don't know but I don't think so. There seems to be a growing resentment toward the poor in our country. As if they are all drug addicts etc...
I think our country would become much like India, Mexico etc... The poor, the blind, the disabled, lying all over the streets of our cities (except in the wealthy areas where they know better than to exist). We're getting closer to that lately anyway.

Well, what do you know, we actually agree on something. If you're meaning is that paying taxes has nothing to do with giving of yourself to help other people, i.e. it counts as far as what Jesus taught. I don't think it does.

I think the resentment that you sense is because of the fact that there are many, many different ways for someone who is 'poor' to help themselves better their lives via the myriad of government programs available for higher education or training. So, in my opinion, unless you're mentally or physically disabled in some way, there's really no excuse for being 'poor' in this country. Instead I think a lot of people take advantage of the support that is offered and do nothing to improve their situation, and when people are giving up 50% of their income to enable that behavior, they're going to start to resent it.

Sky fails reading comprehension 101 once again...

I read you loud and clear. What you don't understand is that every single family that you say illustrates "lazy" poor family has either substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness or criminality going on in it.

It is NOT a matter of "laziness".

I know the poor in my community quite well.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So, they're not the lazy asses you conservative jerks think they are. Most poor people work.

Not true you can work and still be lazy. How does that work you ask? Doing just enough to get by. To actually get out of being poor you have to work a little extra hard and be financial responsible with what you already have.. Not just do enough to pay the bills and put food on the table.

What you call lazy, I call mentally ill. I call substance abusing. I call domestic violence.

Examine who you're talking about.

The myth of the lazy poor person is just that. A myth. You will find one of the above, mental illness, substance abuse or domestic violence in every one of your so-called lazy poor families.

No I have worked with lazy people who were smart If some overtime work had too be done they never did it They were always asking to barrow money though one day before pay day.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Not true you can work and still be lazy. How does that work you ask? Doing just enough to get by. To actually get out of being poor you have to work a little extra hard and be financial responsible with what you already have.. Not just do enough to pay the bills and put food on the table.

What you call lazy, I call mentally ill. I call substance abusing. I call domestic violence.

Examine who you're talking about.

The myth of the lazy poor person is just that. A myth. You will find one of the above, mental illness, substance abuse or domestic violence in every one of your so-called lazy poor families.

No I have worked with lazy people who were smart If some overtime work had too be done they never did it They were always asking to barrow money though one day before pay day.

I hope you wake up one day and learn how to be kind. There are plenty of other explanations for why someone wouldn't want to work overtime besides being lazy.

 

[Newby]

Well, what do you know, we actually agree on something. If you're meaning is that paying taxes has nothing to do with giving of yourself to help other people, i.e. it counts as far as what Jesus taught. I don't think it does.

I think the resentment that you sense is because of the fact that there are many, many different ways for someone who is 'poor' to help themselves better their lives via the myriad of government programs available for higher education or training. So, in my opinion, unless you're mentally or physically disabled in some way, there's really no excuse for being 'poor' in this country. Instead I think a lot of people take advantage of the support that is offered and do nothing to improve their situation, and when people are giving up 50% of their income to enable that behavior, they're going to start to resent it.

Sky fails reading comprehension 101 once again...

I read you loud and clear. What you don't understand is that every single family that you say illustrates "lazy" poor family has either substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness or criminality going on in it.

It is NOT a matter of "laziness".

I know the poor in my community quite well.

Yeah, and people just can't help being criminals or taking drugs....

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sky fails reading comprehension 101 once again...

I read you loud and clear. What you don't understand is that every single family that you say illustrates "lazy" poor family has either substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness or criminality going on in it.

It is NOT a matter of "laziness".

I know the poor in my community quite well.

Yeah, and people just can't help being criminals or taking drugs....

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

You think we all have the same chances and the same abilities to rise above our circumstances. That's not true. The stats on recovery of alchoholism and drug addiction are pathetic.

 

[Newby]

What you call lazy, I call mentally ill. I call substance abusing. I call domestic violence.

Examine who you're talking about.

The myth of the lazy poor person is just that. A myth. You will find one of the above, mental illness, substance abuse or domestic violence in every one of your so-called lazy poor families.

No I have worked with lazy people who were smart If some overtime work had too be done they never did it They were always asking to barrow money though one day before pay day.

I hope you wake up one day and learn how to be kind. There are plenty of other explanations for why someone wouldn't want to work overtime besides being lazy.

Keeping people in poverty for their 'own good', and making sure they have food and shelter, is not being 'kind'.

 

[Newby]

I read you loud and clear. What you don't understand is that every single family that you say illustrates "lazy" poor family has either substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness or criminality going on in it.

It is NOT a matter of "laziness".

I know the poor in my community quite well.

Yeah, and people just can't help being criminals or taking drugs....

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

It's a reflection of lack of character.

 

[koshergrl]

I read you loud and clear. What you don't understand is that every single family that you say illustrates "lazy" poor family has either substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness or criminality going on in it.

It is NOT a matter of "laziness".

I know the poor in my community quite well.

Yeah, and people just can't help being criminals or taking drugs....

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

Bullshit. It is a character trait. Ask ANY addict in recovery. They definitely have control over it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yeah, and people just can't help being criminals or taking drugs....

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

It's a reflection of lack of character.

Yes, that's your view. It's wrong, but you're entitled to it. Don't educate yourself about addiction and alcoholism.

Many people consider mental illness character flaw too.

There is biochemical evidence for substance abuse and mental illness having genetic components. Google GABA and DHIQ.

 

[amrchaos]

"But those enemies of mine who do did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke 19:27

This was apparently said by Jesus...

EDIT: I was absolutely horrified to have read this because it seems rather uncharacteristic of him and goes against most of his teachings. This seems like a rather inappropriate thread to share it in, but I really felt like bringing it up.

There's also no real reason to paraphrase due to its rather blunt nature...

That was in a parable told by Jesus. It is not the same as Jesus ordering his followers to do the act! Jesus said a king gave that order to his servants.

Context, people. Context!

For instance here is apart of Mark that I find a bit disturbing.

" 14 After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: 15 there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16 [[f]If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”]

17 When he had left the crowd and entered (P)the house, (Q)His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18 And He *said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and [g]is eliminated?” (Thus He declared (R)all foods (S)clean.) 20 And He was saying, “(T)That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, [h]fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, (U)envy, slander, [j]pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”


Understand, the Pharisees tradition is one dealing with physical hygiene--Jesus is essentially saying hygiene is unimportant!

Gross, huh? "Cleanliness is next to godliness" is not endorsed by Jesus!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What you call lazy, I call mentally ill. I call substance abusing. I call domestic violence.

Examine who you're talking about.

The myth of the lazy poor person is just that. A myth. You will find one of the above, mental illness, substance abuse or domestic violence in every one of your so-called lazy poor families.

No I have worked with lazy people who were smart If some overtime work had too be done they never did it They were always asking to barrow money though one day before pay day.

I hope you wake up one day and learn how to be kind. There are plenty of other explanations for why someone wouldn't want to work overtime besides being lazy.

Are you really helping people by keeping them up?

 

[Newby]

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

It's a reflection of lack of character.

Yes, that's your view. It's wrong, but you're entitled to it. Don't educate yourself about addiction and alcoholism.

Many people consider mental illness character flaw too.

There is biochemical evidence for substance abuse and mental illness having genetic components. Google GABA and DHIQ.

And who forced them to take their first hit? Who forced them to continue on with the drug use?

I have relatives who have ruined their lives with drugs, I'm quite familiar with the topic. One who even did an armed robbery to feed his addiction and spent 10 years in prison. He made the choices to do what he did, and I cannot respect him as a person. I would also never trust him to be around my children because of the influence he could have on them, so if that means I don't have 'mercy', then so be it.

 

[IndependntLogic]

There's no excuse for being poor? Plenty of people who are poor work. Your view of the poor is 19th century, Newby.

If you grow up in a poor family and have a modicum of intelligence and a good bit of ambition, there is nothing to stop you from bettering yourself in this country, many people have done it. You have to want it.

Ok but she has a point. I volunteer a lot. I donate a lot. I do what little I can but there are so many people in need right now. Not drug addicts or drunks. One woman at the shelter lost her husband in Iraq and BofA ILLEGALLY foreclosed on her home (yes they were convicted. No, hse hasn't gotten a dime yet). She has two kids.

What exactly is a four year old supposed to do NOW?
Better themselves?
Seriously?

How about a 12 year old? Are we the new American version of Oliver Twist?

Shall we open the sweatshops?

 

[Newby]

There's no excuse for being poor? Plenty of people who are poor work. Your view of the poor is 19th century, Newby.

If you grow up in a poor family and have a modicum of intelligence and a good bit of ambition, there is nothing to stop you from bettering yourself in this country, many people have done it. You have to want it.

Ok but she has a point. I volunteer a lot. I donate a lot. I do what little I can but there are so many people in need right now. Not drug addicts or drunks. One woman at the shelter lost her husband in Iraq and BofA ILLEGALLY foreclosed on her home (yes they were convicted. No, hse hasn't gotten a dime yet). She has two kids.

What exactly is a four year old supposed to do NOW?
Better themselves?
Seriously?

How about a 12 year old? Are we the new American version of Oliver Twist?

Shall we open the sweatshops?

My point was that at some point in everyone's lives they can make a choice to stay on the same path or do something to get onto a better one. If the 12 year old has a parent that cares about them, the parent should be encouraging them to do as good as they can, work as hard as they can in school so there are oppotunities when they're ready to graduate. You don't have to be rich to want better for your kids and to teach them the right values. There are many kids that have excelled despite all the negative circumstances surrounding them, including having losers for parents, it's all choice at some point.

 

[IndependntLogic]

If you grow up in a poor family and have a modicum of intelligence and a good bit of ambition, there is nothing to stop you from bettering yourself in this country, many people have done it. You have to want it.

Ok but she has a point. I volunteer a lot. I donate a lot. I do what little I can but there are so many people in need right now. Not drug addicts or drunks. One woman at the shelter lost her husband in Iraq and BofA ILLEGALLY foreclosed on her home (yes they were convicted. No, hse hasn't gotten a dime yet). She has two kids.

What exactly is a four year old supposed to do NOW?
Better themselves?
Seriously?

How about a 12 year old? Are we the new American version of Oliver Twist?

Shall we open the sweatshops?

My point was that at some point in everyone's lives they can make a choice to stay on the same path or do something to get onto a better one. If the 12 year old has a parent that cares about them, the parent should be encouraging them to do as good as they can, work as hard as they can in school so there are oppotunities when they're ready to graduate. You don't have to be rich to want better for your kids and to teach them the right values. There are many kids that have excelled despite all the negative circumstances surrounding them, including having losers for parents, it's all choice at some point.

You'd make a fine motivational speaker.

But that part about starving?

Oh and you think this woman is a "loser" because her husband was killed in Iraq and she was a traditional, stay at home mom?

Or is it that you think she's a loser becaue the economy is SO fantastic right now and unemployment is SO low, that she should have her pick of great jobs?

In any case, Next time I'm serving them, I'll let the 12 year old know you said she should "man up" and "make the best of it". Maybe that kind of Christian Motivation will be just what she needs!

 

[koshergrl]

Ok but she has a point. I volunteer a lot. I donate a lot. I do what little I can but there are so many people in need right now. Not drug addicts or drunks. One woman at the shelter lost her husband in Iraq and BofA ILLEGALLY foreclosed on her home (yes they were convicted. No, hse hasn't gotten a dime yet). She has two kids.

What exactly is a four year old supposed to do NOW?
Better themselves?
Seriously?

How about a 12 year old? Are we the new American version of Oliver Twist?

Shall we open the sweatshops?

My point was that at some point in everyone's lives they can make a choice to stay on the same path or do something to get onto a better one. If the 12 year old has a parent that cares about them, the parent should be encouraging them to do as good as they can, work as hard as they can in school so there are oppotunities when they're ready to graduate. You don't have to be rich to want better for your kids and to teach them the right values. There are many kids that have excelled despite all the negative circumstances surrounding them, including having losers for parents, it's all choice at some point.

You'd make a fine motivational speaker.

But that part about starving?

Oh and you think this woman is a "loser" because her husband was killed in Iraq and she was a traditional, stay at home mom?

Or is it that you think she's a loser becaue the economy is SO fantastic right now and unemployment is SO low, that she should have her pick of great jobs?

In any case, Next time I'm serving them, I'll let the 12 year old know you said she should "man up" and "make the best of it". Maybe that kind of Christian Motivation will be just what she needs!

Arguing to points never made, and making up stuff and attributing it to your opponent in debate is an indication you're an intellectual failure.

 

[Newby]

Ok but she has a point. I volunteer a lot. I donate a lot. I do what little I can but there are so many people in need right now. Not drug addicts or drunks. One woman at the shelter lost her husband in Iraq and BofA ILLEGALLY foreclosed on her home (yes they were convicted. No, hse hasn't gotten a dime yet). She has two kids.

What exactly is a four year old supposed to do NOW?
Better themselves?
Seriously?

How about a 12 year old? Are we the new American version of Oliver Twist?

Shall we open the sweatshops?

My point was that at some point in everyone's lives they can make a choice to stay on the same path or do something to get onto a better one. If the 12 year old has a parent that cares about them, the parent should be encouraging them to do as good as they can, work as hard as they can in school so there are oppotunities when they're ready to graduate. You don't have to be rich to want better for your kids and to teach them the right values. There are many kids that have excelled despite all the negative circumstances surrounding them, including having losers for parents, it's all choice at some point.

You'd make a fine motivational speaker.

But that part about starving?

Oh and you think this woman is a "loser" because her husband was killed in Iraq and she was a traditional, stay at home mom?

Or is it that you think she's a loser becaue the economy is SO fantastic right now and unemployment is SO low, that she should have her pick of great jobs?

In any case, Next time I'm serving them, I'll let the 12 year old know you said she should "man up" and "make the best of it". Maybe that kind of Christian Motivation will be just what she needs!

Ah, so you're another one of those people who puts words in the mouths of those people you're 'debating' with? It's called dishonesty, and if that's all you have to make your point, you're in sad shape. And not worth the hassle.

 

[Ariux]

If you're an addict, you don't have any control over it. It often leads to criminal behavior to support the habit.

Addiction is not a character trait. It is as much a disease as diabetes.

You think we all have the same chances and the same abilities to rise above our circumstances. That's not true. The stats on recovery of alchoholism and drug addiction are pathetic.

Dumbshit, diabetes is caused by the body not producing enough insulin. Alcoholism is caused by people going out to the store and buying alcohol. Recovery rates of alcoholism are so poor because character flaws aren't fixed by sobriety programs.

It's stupid to complain that people commit crimes to support drug habits because everything in life costs money. This isn't a unique or sinister aspect of drugs. Drug abusers tend to commit crimes because of their character flaws. And, because the drug market is illegal.

 

[IndependntLogic]

My point was that at some point in everyone's lives they can make a choice to stay on the same path or do something to get onto a better one. If the 12 year old has a parent that cares about them, the parent should be encouraging them to do as good as they can, work as hard as they can in school so there are oppotunities when they're ready to graduate. You don't have to be rich to want better for your kids and to teach them the right values. There are many kids that have excelled despite all the negative circumstances surrounding them, including having losers for parents, it's all choice at some point.

You'd make a fine motivational speaker.

But that part about starving?

Oh and you think this woman is a "loser" because her husband was killed in Iraq and she was a traditional, stay at home mom?

Or is it that you think she's a loser becaue the economy is SO fantastic right now and unemployment is SO low, that she should have her pick of great jobs?

In any case, Next time I'm serving them, I'll let the 12 year old know you said she should "man up" and "make the best of it". Maybe that kind of Christian Motivation will be just what she needs!

Ah, so you're another one of those people who put's words in the mouths of those people you're 'debating' with? It's called dishonesty, and if that's all you have to make your point, you're in sad shape. And not worth the hassle.

Nice dodge. So when you're owned on the points, you sling insults and blame the other person. Christian, right?

I asked about poor kids and you replied "Well they should just make the best of it! I've seen people do this and that!" but you never addressed the point in the first place. Not that you ever do. You just blame others and dodge when you realize someone with a differing view might have a legitimate point. Ego.
Why not just show a little character and say something like "Well you do have a point there. Of course there ARE cases in which..."
Ego. Always easy to spot. Some people can never just say "You're right" or "I hadn't thought of that" and certainly never "I apologize".
But that's fine. You imply that a woman I discussed who lost her husband in Iraq is a "loser" and her parent should make the best of it - and I'm the one who's so horrible. Ah those fine Conservative Christian values...

 

[Newby]

You'd make a fine motivational speaker.

But that part about starving?

Oh and you think this woman is a "loser" because her husband was killed in Iraq and she was a traditional, stay at home mom?

Or is it that you think she's a loser becaue the economy is SO fantastic right now and unemployment is SO low, that she should have her pick of great jobs?

In any case, Next time I'm serving them, I'll let the 12 year old know you said she should "man up" and "make the best of it". Maybe that kind of Christian Motivation will be just what she needs!

Ah, so you're another one of those people who put's words in the mouths of those people you're 'debating' with? It's called dishonesty, and if that's all you have to make your point, you're in sad shape. And not worth the hassle.

Nice dodge. So when you're owned on the points, you sling insults and blame the other person. Christian, right?

I asked about poor kids and you replied "Well they should just make the best of it! I've seen people do this and that!" but you never addressed the point in the first place. Not that you ever do. You just blame others and dodge when you realize someone with a differing view might have a legitimate point. Ego.
Why not just show a little character and say something like "Well you do have a point there. Of course there ARE cases in which..."
Ego. Always easy to spot. Some people can never just say "You're right" or "I hadn't thought of that" and certainly never "I apologize".
But that's fine. You imply that a woman I discussed who lost her husband in Iraq is a "loser" and her parent should make the best of it - and I'm the one who's so horrible. Ah those fine Conservative Christian values...

No, that's not what I said, dishonesty again. And that I called any specific person a loser is an out and out lie, but I'm sure you won't own up to your dishonesty, it's your MO.



What should 12 year olds with poor parents do in your opinion? Blow school off, disrespect everything around them, do drugs, don't get an education and end up just like their parents? Poor? Why doesn't it surprise me that you wouldn't advocate good values like studying, getting good grades in school, and trying to make something out of your life? You would just teach them to put their hands out, and when someone doesn't fill it up, call everyone around them 'selfish'. Is that what you did? Or did Mommy and Daddy pave the way for you?