So what IS the best way to reduce or prevent mass shootings?

[Pogo]

If you're so bereft of creative thought that you think there's an "only way" and you're not willing to listen to alternatives that may challenge that only-ness --- then what the fuck was the purpose of starting this thread?

You are more than free to share your wisdom on the matter……..we are waiting…..

"Waiting"???

I did that when this thread first started. It was ignored as inconvenient. I revived it again periodically. It's still ignored. Now you're "waiting?!?

After a thousand posts the OP sees no alternative to his preconception, yet he started a thread asking that very question.

That's kinda fucked up.

You offered up things that would not do anything…..that isn't offering anything useful.

"Would not do anything" = "not what I want to hear".

Again ....

No….would not do anything means that what you advocate would not stop mass shootings…which is the point to the things that are supposed to be proposed…you know…actually stopping mass shootings vs. making it more difficult for normal gun owners to buy and own guns while doing nothing at all….nothing at all, to stop mass shooters……

Kind of like creating a device that keeps a car from crashing….but the device doesn't keep the car from crashing…..and then saying you came up with a device that keeps cars from crashing…….

All you're doing here is gainsaying, which only confirms my description as

And that's because you don't have the balls to challenge your own preconceptions. But that's where it starts.

And I get that -- that's why I drop this in, see it go nowhere, walk away and come back later to try again. Sooner or later somebody's going to start listening.

Obviously not now though, so .... wallow on playing whack-a-mole. I'll continue .... what was your word?
Oh yes--- waiting.

 

[MikeK]

It doesn't….an author and screen writer, Andrew Klavan explored legal brothels for a novel…he said organized crime is all over them….and the girls still have pimps….even in the legal brothels…...

I've never heard of Andrew Klavan. Can you supply a link to his research data?

Where did he conduct his research? The Casbah? Certainly not in Nevada where licensed brothels have been operating for years with only a few minimal and unsuccessful attempts by criminal elements to infiltrate them.

I'm recalling the eighteen months I spent on Okinawa in the mid-1950s, where legal prostitution flourished under admirably clean, sanctioned and well-protected conditions. There is no reason why the same circumstances cannot prevail here in the U.S. provided there is motivated official oversight along with police and medical supervision.

In any event the situation cannot be worse than it is today with trafficking, STD, pimping, and counterproductive law-enforcement efforts.

 

[MikeK]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

 

[MikeK]

Mass murderers are disproportionally young men who have never had a girlfriend and never had sex. Legalize prostitution.

And marijuana.

 

[Mudda]

Words are already banned like n1gger. Or yelling FIRE! in a crowded space... But for the purpose of this thread, I think that banning bullets would be more effective. Don't you think?

Words in general are banned? Really? Where?

Why don't YOU explain it, you brought up banning words.

I accept your concession of the point.

You bring up a stupid point and ask me to explain it.

"The Constitution does not protect ammunition" is the quintessential stupid point; I apologize for having wasted even this tiny bit of time on you.

You're right, the Constitution doesn't protect ammunition. I'm glad you finally got it.

 

[MikeK]

Really.

So one guy did Aurora, and Columbine, and Oak Creek, and Tucson, and Virginia Tech, and Newtown, and Webster, and Roseburg, and Charleston, and Luby's, and Oakland, and Las Vegas, and Binghamton, and Powell, and all those other shootings. After shooting himself dead multiple times under multiple names.

Life in Duh Bubble....

One thing the actor in each and every one of the examples you've cited had in common was determination. Their psychopathic actions did not take place on some momentary impulse. Rather they were the result of long-term periods of festering pathology during which they patiently planned their attacks.

Considering the fact that illegal guns, like recreational drugs, are readily available to anyone who is willing to pay the price, specifically what gun laws would you recommend to prevent outbursts of the kind of psychopathic homicidal rage which have become rather commonplace?

 

[MikeK]

You're right, the Constitution doesn't protect ammunition. I'm glad you finally got it.

Nor does it ban reloading equipment.

 

[Pogo]

Really.

So one guy did Aurora, and Columbine, and Oak Creek, and Tucson, and Virginia Tech, and Newtown, and Webster, and Roseburg, and Charleston, and Luby's, and Oakland, and Las Vegas, and Binghamton, and Powell, and all those other shootings. After shooting himself dead multiple times under multiple names.

Life in Duh Bubble....

One thing the actor in each and every one of the examples you've cited had in common was determination. Their psychopathic actions did not take place on some momentary impulse. Rather they were the result of long-term periods of festering pathology during which they patiently planned their attacks.

Considering the fact that illegal guns, like recreational drugs, are readily available to anyone who is willing to pay the price, specifically what gun laws would you recommend to prevent outbursts of the kind of psychopathic homicidal rage which have become rather commonplace?

I don't think the answer lies in "laws" in the first place. As you indicate, if any of us want to get our hands on a firearm, a hit of heroin, an underage case of beer, a prostitute, a hit of crack, etc etc there are always ways around the legal barriers. That's why I keep saying the answer lies in changing cultural attitudes. Not unlike what we did with smoking cigarettes -- without, it should be noted, making them illegal. We also tried to legislate drunkenness out of existence, and that didn't exactly work either.

One thing the actors in each and every one of the examples I cited also had even more in common was, to repeat an old point, that they're all males with power issues. I don't know that they all involved long-term planning (e.g. Tucson, VT, Newtown, Powell) but they all involved males with power issues who've been told and shown and had drummed into them from infancy that the way you get over power issues is to load up and blast away.

That's a cultural value, and it's where we need to start, IMHO. You can put out fires as they pop up, one at a time ---- or you can starve the fire of the fuel that's causing it.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

That's a cultural value, and it's where we need to start, IMHO. You can put out fires as they pop up, one at a time ---- or you can starve the fire of the fuel that's causing it.

I believe you are talking about eliminating what clearly is the rising condition of psychopathology in American society. The simple and plainly obvious fact is, in addition to experiencing the rise of militant terrorism, the internal pressures of life in American society is breeding a genus of enraged homicidal psychopaths.

Dr. Erich Fromm strongly hints at the potential development of the phenomenon we presently are witnessing in his 1950s book, The Sane Society (available from Amazon).

 

[candycorn]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

Here. I was born here. Too old to learn another culture. Thanks for the questioning.

The remaining question is why can't we look at Europe and duplicate a system that works so well for so many. Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

 

[freemind]

Something I wrote in 2007 after another mass murder then. As true now as it was then.

-------------------------------------------------------

What IS the best way to reduce or prevent mass shootings?


No method is 100% perfect, of course, and never will be as long as we are a society of imperfect people.

But most of the methods being tried today, pretty much have no effect. Indeed, insane mass murderers seem to be drawn to the "Gun Free Zones" set up by naïve liberals. Where else can they be guaranteed a large collection of unarmed, vulnerable targets, with many uninterrupted minutes to blow away as many people as they like before the cops get there?

Is there a viable way to cut down the numbers of such shootings, and/or the body counts?

Many of the whackos (people who actually start shooting into crowds, at malls, post offices, schools etc.) know it is a suicide mission. The idea that they may be killed, obviously doesn't deter them... in that way, anyway.

But what most of them want, is to go out with a huge splash. They want huge headlines after the fact, crying and wailing about the ten or twenty or thirty innocent people who died, how horrible it all is, wailing and gnashing about what we could have done to prevent it, three-page exposes about the shooter's disturbed childhood and how unfair society was to him, etc. etc. To their twisted minds, that's worth getting dead over.

But if they show up at their planned execution site, start pulling the trigger, wound the first person, miss with the next shot, and then get get shot through the middle of the bod by someone in the crowd they never suspected might have his own gun, next day's headlines will be much less lurid. Some nut pulled a gun and fired two shots, wounding one. The wounded person is now recovering in the hospital, and the nut is dead, end of story. He's a footnote on page 28, if that.

And THAT's what the whackos don't want to happen. They want huge headlines and weeks of media coverage, even after they are dead, that's mostly why they're doing it.

If everyone is allowed to carry, most people still won't bother. I probably wouldn't most of the time. But some people will. And a nutcase like this guy will never know which people in the crowd, are the ones with their own gun. Could be the granny in the wheelchair over there, whose kids were killed in a home invasion robbery five years ago, who swore she'd never go unarmed again, and never misses her weekend hour or two at the practice range.

The deranged whacko is certainly insane. But he's obviously still coherent enough to have a goal in mind, and to do what he needs to carry it out. And he's probably coherent enough to realize that a few unknown people in the crowd who have guns and are practiced in their use, can and will deny him the splashy headlines he wants. And there's nothing he can do about it.

It's enough to often make even a deranged whacko reconsider his plans. Why start shooting at a public event, if you're simply going to become dead three seconds later with little or no lurid body count to show for it?

Letting law-abiding citizens carry freely is, and has always been, the best deterrent to crime. Criminals know there will be somebody nearby who will discourage them quickly. Only in so-called "gun free zones" are the criminals guaranteed the freedom to carry out their crimes.

Or does somebody think that some nutcase who is ready and willing to murder dozens of people, will turn around and obey a new "No guns permitted here" law?

Little-Acorn,
You probably wouldn't want to know and this forum probably wouldn't allow me to tell you.

 

[Rustic]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

Here. I was born here. Too old to learn another culture. Thanks for the questioning.

The remaining question is why can't we look at Europe and duplicate a system that works so well for so many. Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

We don't want to live in an incestuous sh!t hole like Europe, dumba$$

 

[Little-Acorn]

Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

When a liberal loses debate after debate, he usually starts ranting hysterically like this.

 

[2aguy]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

Here. I was born here. Too old to learn another culture. Thanks for the questioning.

The remaining question is why can't we look at Europe and duplicate a system that works so well for so many. Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

We don't want to live in an incestuous sh!t hole like Europe, dumba$$

Well.....that is only if you don't include the 12 million innocent, unarmed, men, women and children murdered by the governments of Europe......and then ignore the fact that the U.N. did nothing to stop ethnic cleansing in the Balkans or genocide in Rwanda.....where they actually sent troops to specifically stop the looming genocide...and then stood back and did nothing....

Funny....the Europeans tend to not stop mass murder when it happens......do we want to duplicate that as well?

 

[MikeK]

k, I'll let you have what the Founding Fathers envisioned: musket balls and powder.

The Founding Fathers made no mention of specific types of firearms in their Second Amendment assurance that American citizens shall retain the ability to defend themselves against oppression. They referred only to "arms," neither the (blunderbuss) arms of their yesteryear nor the presumably advanced arms of their tomorrow.

 

[candycorn]

Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

When a liberal loses debate after debate, he usually starts ranting hysterically like this.

I'll let you know when I lose one.

You never answered the question...with everyone packing heat, what do you do if you're the bank guard or the guard at the race track and 5,000 people have weapons and anyone can open fire at any time.

Your remedy for gun violence is to have everyone carry weapons. As insane as it sounds, that is your remedy. Now walk us through what the guard at the bank should do when 30-50 customers are packing Uzis in the lobby....will you please?

 

[candycorn]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

Here. I was born here. Too old to learn another culture. Thanks for the questioning.

The remaining question is why can't we look at Europe and duplicate a system that works so well for so many. Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

We don't want to live in an incestuous sh!t hole like Europe, dumba$$

now you're just being stupid on purpose.

 

[OKTexas]

Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

When a liberal loses debate after debate, he usually starts ranting hysterically like this.

I'll let you know when I lose one.

You never answered the question...with everyone packing heat, what do you do if you're the bank guard or the guard at the race track and 5,000 people have weapons and anyone can open fire at any time.

Your remedy for gun violence is to have everyone carry weapons. As insane as it sounds, that is your remedy. Now walk us through what the guard at the bank should do when 30-50 customers are packing Uzis in the lobby....will you please?

The bank guard would say good morning/afternoon and have a nice day.

 

[candycorn]

Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

When a liberal loses debate after debate, he usually starts ranting hysterically like this.

I'll let you know when I lose one.

You never answered the question...with everyone packing heat, what do you do if you're the bank guard or the guard at the race track and 5,000 people have weapons and anyone can open fire at any time.

Your remedy for gun violence is to have everyone carry weapons. As insane as it sounds, that is your remedy. Now walk us through what the guard at the bank should do when 30-50 customers are packing Uzis in the lobby....will you please?

The bank guard would say good morning/afternoon and have a nice day.

Obviously because nobody with a gun has ever shot anyone. Right?

 

[Rustic]

They have tough gun laws in Europe and very few gun crimes. Obviously gun laws do work.

What they don't have is a counter productive second amendment keeping the spigot open.

You have clearly established the fact that Europe is not America. The remaining questions are where would you rather live? And why?

Here. I was born here. Too old to learn another culture. Thanks for the questioning.

The remaining question is why can't we look at Europe and duplicate a system that works so well for so many. Are we afraid that we will have too few murders?

We don't want to live in an incestuous sh!t hole like Europe, dumba$$

now you're just being stupid on purpose.

No, I have been to Europe, it sucked. Could not get out of there fast enough...