So what I dont believe in God?

[BluePhantom]

I'm an agnostic. I cannot say whether or not there is a "god," but I am doubtful. I definitely don't believe in man-made religion or the Bible though! I believe the bible to be a collection of stories/parables that were made up by ancient ignorant people in order to try and explain things that happened in their world that they didn't understand. That's my opinion on religion/God/whatever.

I can see how you would reach that conclusion regarding some things such as the "historical" stories, I guess we will call them (Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, etc). I agree with you that those are based in ancient mythology and should not be taken literally. But I think you undervalue the Bible and the authors in regard to the wisdom it provides on how to go about life in ancient Judea. Many of those basic principles still have application today. I would hardly call the prophets ignorant. They were certainly angry. They were not the kind of guys you would have over for a light-hearted barbecue and a couple beers. But they often gave good advice for their time.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm an agnostic. I cannot say whether or not there is a "god," but I am doubtful. I definitely don't believe in man-made religion or the Bible though! I believe the bible to be a collection of stories/parables that were made up by ancient ignorant people in order to try and explain things that happened in their world that they didn't understand. That's my opinion on religion/God/whatever.

I can see how you would reach that conclusion regarding some things such as the "historical" stories, I guess we will call them (Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, etc). I agree with you that those are based in ancient mythology and should not be taken literally. But I think you undervalue the Bible and the authors in regard to the wisdom it provides on how to go about life in ancient Judea. Many of those basic principles still have application today. I would hardly call the prophets ignorant. They were certainly angry. They were not the kind of guys you would have over for a light-hearted barbecue and a couple beers. But they often gave good advice for their time.

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way. I mean they didn't really understand or know things such as volcanoes, earthquakes, and they would assume that it was God or the gods punishing them. You know, stuff like that.

I do realize that there are some aspects of the bible are historically accurate, but of course some would be given they were giving a reflection into their times and their struggles, etc.

I have nothing against some of the lessons taught in the Bible. Some of them make perfect sense. Others . . . not so much.

 

[BluePhantom]

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way. I mean they didn't really understand or know things such as volcanoes, earthquakes, and they would assume that it was God or the gods punishing them. You know, stuff like that.

Oh. Gotcha. Yeah no argument there.

I do realize that there are some aspects of the bible are historically accurate, but of course some would be given they were giving a reflection into their times and their struggles, etc.

I have nothing against some of the lessons taught in the Bible. Some of them make perfect sense. Others . . . not so much.

I think that's reasonable. I think they made total sense for their time and their culture. I would say that much of it has modern application, but some of it does not. Leviticus, for example, has little to no modern application in United States society. It's a legal contract between the Jews and God that spells out laws to be followed in exchange for living the Holy Land. What application does that have for us in the USA? Zilch. I am a Protestant Christian that lives in Oregon. I am not Jewish and I don't live in Israel so what does Leviticus have to do with me? Nothing. But it made sense to them.

So...yeah....I think we agree.

 

[sealybobo]

Seriously, what does it matter if someone believes in God? I've been talking to many theists who dont believe in hell or they say their religion doesnt say non believers go to hell so who cares if people dont believe? Especially if they are good people.

I believe this threat of hell is key to recruiting members. Even my theist buddy who doesnt believe in hell said to me "you just gotta believe". Why?

Do you really think the Son of God came to earth to suffer and die for nothing?

If all paths lead to God, then Jesus coming to earth to die was a waste of time.

As far as what you believe, it is key to how you live your life. What you believe dictates how you will live.

An example are those who are religious and attend church frequently. On average, they give more of their time and money to help the poor than any other demographic, and the reason they do so boils down to what they believe.

and if I wasn't on a smartphone I could show you that in every way a deus are better than religious people smarter more charitable less unplanned pregnancies poverty we are more liberal kind caring people. religious people are worried about what's going to happen to them after they die atheis worry about the planet and the human species continuing forever religious people are selfish

Sealy...brother....pal o'mine....how many times am I going to have to dispel these claims you make before you stop making such generalization and start engaging in a constructive discussion? I know you have it in you. You and I have found common ground several times, so I know you have the ability to have a constructive dialogue. Why do you continue with the same destructive rhetoric when you have shown the ability to be someone who can join people together instead of creating division?

I'm sorry but that person is suggesting that because they are religious they are better people than us they are not in fact in a lot of ways I see them as being worse. not all of them I have admitted that. I didn't say all religious people are bad I just said religion is bad for people

that is the funniest thing I have ever heard everybody who knows me says what a wonderful person I am for helping take care of my parents.........He's as dumb as you

cough.....

I'm not going to sugar coat it if he's as dumb as you are that I'm going to say it just not to his face. But what I won't do is stop arguing with him because when he makes a false claim like how can the body be so perfect and the stars be so perfect and the Son and the chickens and the dogs and how everything works out perfectly science has an explanation for that does he want to hear it no so I guess you guys are the ones who are close minded

hey, just because you aren't as smart as you ought to be is no reason to say the human body isn't perfect.......be that as it may you shouldn't be surprised that someone says you are disrespecting your father while you are in the midst of disrespecting him........

us Kim or you ask anybody else that knows who I am you couldn't ask for a better son. actually I was at a party last night and we were talking about this. I told my friend that I told somebody here that I was one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet and he said no you're not any play out a couple of things I do that's the nicest guy in the world wouldn't do. Lol but make no mistake about it I don't disrespect my father. actually the other day I used the F word and he said hey you don't talk to your parents you don't talk about your parents like that and I felt really bad and I'm 44 years old and I'm just respecting and make this Agreement but I would never come stupid not to expense. by the way I thought about this today you religious people I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

 

[sealybobo]

I'm an agnostic. I cannot say whether or not there is a "god," but I am doubtful. I definitely don't believe in man-made religion or the Bible though! I believe the bible to be a collection of stories/parables that were made up by ancient ignorant people in order to try and explain things that happened in their world that they didn't understand. That's my opinion on religion/God/whatever.

I can see how you would reach that conclusion regarding some things such as the "historical" stories, I guess we will call them (Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, etc). I agree with you that those are based in ancient mythology and should not be taken literally. But I think you undervalue the Bible and the authors in regard to the wisdom it provides on how to go about life in ancient Judea. Many of those basic principles still have application today. I would hardly call the prophets ignorant. They were certainly angry. They were not the kind of guys you would have over for a light-hearted barbecue and a couple beers. But they often gave good advice for their time.

I don't mean ignorant in a bad way. I mean they didn't really understand or know things such as volcanoes, earthquakes, and they would assume that it was God or the gods punishing them. You know, stuff like that.

I do realize that there are some aspects of the bible are historically accurate, but of course some would be given they were giving a reflection into their times and their struggles, etc.

I have nothing against some of the lessons taught in the Bible. Some of them make perfect sense. Others . . . not so much.

when I see my father's ignorance towards science and I see the look on his face when I tried to explain to him how something can come from nothing and how this world is only perfect for us right now if it weren't we wouldn't be here and some other life form might be here he doesn't get it but it's really hard to explain it's a somebody who set in their ways

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

 

[sealybobo]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

actually he admits that all the organized religions are all made up and they don't know anything he can't even defend organized religions he all he says all he believes in something must have made us. I keep asking me what that is and he can't tell me just like you can't

 

[sealybobo]

I would continue discussing this but something more important is going on the NBA Finals

 

[sealybobo]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

science tells us to question the stories of the Ancients question authority question your elders. you might call that disrespect but I think it would be absolutely ignorant to not question our elders. think about how much more we know now that we did 500 years ago. Now think what we will know 500 years from now that we don't know right now. seems like you don't like the scientific method

 

[BluePhantom]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

science tells us to question the stories of the Ancients question authority question your elders. you might call that disrespect but I think it would be absolutely ignorant to not question our elders. think about how much more we know now that we did 500 years ago. Now think what we will know 500 years from now that we don't know right now. seems like you don't like the scientific method

In concept I would agree with that and I believe that elders should welcome questioning. I have mentored many people in my career; tucked them under my wing and taught them everything I knew about business and food. What I always told them was "my job is to keep my job and your job is to take my job". What I meant by that was that if I train them correctly, they will know everything I know and then take the next steps thereby advancing the profession and the craft. This was something that my mentors taught me.

One of the proudest days of my professional life was when one of my mentors called me and asked my advice on how to deal with a situation. In time, I have called certain students and proteges and asked them for their advice. It's the greatest compliment a mentor can give and when it happens it means that things are progressing the way they should progress. The student surpasses the master and advances the craft. That's the way it should be.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

science tells us to question the stories of the Ancients question authority question your elders. you might call that disrespect but I think it would be absolutely ignorant to not question our elders. think about how much more we know now that we did 500 years ago. Now think what we will know 500 years from now that we don't know right now. seems like you don't like the scientific method

In concept I would agree with that and I believe that elders should welcome questioning. I have mentored many people in my career; tucked them under my wing and taught them everything I knew about business and food. What I always told them was "my job is to keep my job and your job is to take my job". What I meant by that was that if I train them correctly, they will know everything I know and then take the next steps thereby advancing the profession and the craft. This was something that my mentors taught me.

One of the proudest days of my professional life was when one of my mentors called me and asked my advice on how to deal with a situation. In time, I have called certain students and proteges and asked them for their advice. It's the greatest compliment a mentor can give and when it happens it means that things are progressing the way they should progress. The student surpasses the master and advances the craft. That's the way it should be.

sometimes you have to break away from the old ways and question everything. I want to say that the status quo doesn't mind being questioned but it does even the scientific community. If you watch the Kosmos series the ones with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan they tell you how every great scientific discovery had to survive the scrutiny of the scientific community and even in the scientific community there is bias there's a hierarchy a good old boys group. so I guess every things should be up for question. but I'll be honest I don't think religious people want to have that conversation. I occasionally watch religious TV and they don't see an honest debate happening in their world. I see them lying to their children. I seriously C believing in God is something very similar to children being told that Santa is real and knows if you're naughty or nice so you better be good for goodness sake

 

[sealybobo]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

and don't say it wrong we are not saying there is not a god that would be assuming we know there is no god you can't know that. to know that you have to be a god yourself and be able to be in all places at the same time as God might be hiding behind one moon while you're looking behind another son.I'm saying I don't believe there is a God. I certainly don't believe any organized religions stories of how God visited them insane typically I just don't see a creator other than something else that is whatever the universe is always is and always will be maybe not this universe but other universes will exist on the other side of black holes our universe will collapse another one will be born billions and billions of infinite time space unimaginable. and unless you're a part of an organized religion that says you have to believe or else you can't go to heaven or even worse you'll go to hell then it really doesn't matter if I believe there's a creator or not maybe there is maybe there isn't so what? is there a heaven waiting for you because you believe there is?oftentimes I find myself sad that I have to tell religious people that are following a fairytale but I think it's healthy for people to know the truth and that swallow a lie. I think the human species and the planet will be better off when we shed this ancient belief system. Maybe in the future you bored just be spiritual and believe only in a generic creator and that's okay if they want to worship it but you tell me that it's visited them for their ancient ancestors and I have to believe or else? Lol

 

[BluePhantom]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

I can argue the exact opposite. All humans have spirits and thus all people have a sense of spirituality that is connected to God. It's simply whether one wishes to acknowledge it or not. You and Sealy may reject God but as God is the universe,the only way you can be truly apart from God is to have no interaction with the universe at all. Thus, it is not a question of whether you have a relationship with God, it's a question of whether you acknowledge that relationship and what form it will take.

Oh and BTW...your use of double negatives...yeah...I got your point, but you might want to work on that

 

[featherlite]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

and don't say it wrong we are not saying there is not a god that would be assuming we know there is no god you can't know that. to know that you have to be a god yourself and be able to be in all places at the same time as God might be hiding behind one moon while you're looking behind another son.I'm saying I don't believe there is a God. I certainly don't believe any organized religions stories of how God visited them insane typically I just don't see a creator other than something else that is whatever the universe is always is and always will be maybe not this universe but other universes will exist on the other side of black holes our universe will collapse another one will be born billions and billions of infinite time space unimaginable. and unless you're a part of an organized religion that says you have to believe or else you can't go to heaven or even worse you'll go to hell then it really doesn't matter if I believe there's a creator or not maybe there is maybe there isn't so what? is there a heaven waiting for you because you believe there is?oftentimes I find myself sad that I have to tell religious people that are following a fairytale but I think it's healthy for people to know the truth and that swallow a lie. I think the human species and the planet will be better off when we shed this ancient belief system. Maybe in the future you bored just be spiritual and believe only in a generic creator and that's okay if they want to worship it but you tell me that it's visited them for their ancient ancestors and I have to believe or else? Lol

I have a question for you Sealy...have you TRULY accepted your atheism?
....you are like the antichristian energizer bunny.

 

[BluePhantom]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

science tells us to question the stories of the Ancients question authority question your elders. you might call that disrespect but I think it would be absolutely ignorant to not question our elders. think about how much more we know now that we did 500 years ago. Now think what we will know 500 years from now that we don't know right now. seems like you don't like the scientific method

In concept I would agree with that and I believe that elders should welcome questioning. I have mentored many people in my career; tucked them under my wing and taught them everything I knew about business and food. What I always told them was "my job is to keep my job and your job is to take my job". What I meant by that was that if I train them correctly, they will know everything I know and then take the next steps thereby advancing the profession and the craft. This was something that my mentors taught me.

One of the proudest days of my professional life was when one of my mentors called me and asked my advice on how to deal with a situation. In time, I have called certain students and proteges and asked them for their advice. It's the greatest compliment a mentor can give and when it happens it means that things are progressing the way they should progress. The student surpasses the master and advances the craft. That's the way it should be.

sometimes you have to break away from the old ways and question everything. I want to say that the status quo doesn't mind being questioned but it does even the scientific community. If you watch the Kosmos series the ones with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan they tell you how every great scientific discovery had to survive the scrutiny of the scientific community and even in the scientific community there is bias there's a hierarchy a good old boys group. so I guess every things should be up for question. but I'll be honest I don't think religious people want to have that conversation. I occasionally watch religious TV and they don't see an honest debate happening in their world. I see them lying to their children. I seriously C believing in God is something very similar to children being told that Santa is real and knows if you're naughty or nice so you better be good for goodness sake

I understand what you are saying. I am familiar with the Kosmos series. I love science and embrace it eagerly. I don't see a contradiction between science and religion, but that is because I don't read the Bible literally....honestly most people don't. Science accepts "the best explanation we have at the moment". It's actually very rare for science to nail something so completely that there are no other options. Science says "according to the data we have and our best understanding this is the way it works....until someone comes up with something better". Religion is really not that different.

On another thread I was talking to Derideo_Te, who as you are aware is like my polar opposite and even though we disagree, I consider him my brother just as I have come to think of you. We exchanged some stories about things that have happened in our lives for which we simply have no explanation. They were experiences that were so improbable that the odds were close to walking on water. We had better chances of getting struck by lightning in our living room than these things happening. He attributes them to blind, stupid luck...and you know what? He may be right! He may be totally, 100% completely, right! I attribute them to God because it is the only way I can explain the experience and maintain the miraculous nature of what happened. Like science...it's the "best explanation I have at the moment". Who is right? We will find out when we die, I suppose. But a theist who is rational considers all possibilities...they are just waiting for proof as you are. You demand proof of the existence of God. No worries. I get it. Before I walk away from God, I demand proof that will discredit experiences in my life that cannot be explained.

We are at a stalemate...as always.

 

[BluePhantom]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

and don't say it wrong we are not saying there is not a god that would be assuming we know there is no god you can't know that. to know that you have to be a god yourself and be able to be in all places at the same time as God might be hiding behind one moon while you're looking behind another son.I'm saying I don't believe there is a God. I certainly don't believe any organized religions stories of how God visited them insane typically I just don't see a creator other than something else that is whatever the universe is always is and always will be maybe not this universe but other universes will exist on the other side of black holes our universe will collapse another one will be born billions and billions of infinite time space unimaginable. and unless you're a part of an organized religion that says you have to believe or else you can't go to heaven or even worse you'll go to hell then it really doesn't matter if I believe there's a creator or not maybe there is maybe there isn't so what? is there a heaven waiting for you because you believe there is?oftentimes I find myself sad that I have to tell religious people that are following a fairytale but I think it's healthy for people to know the truth and that swallow a lie. I think the human species and the planet will be better off when we shed this ancient belief system. Maybe in the future you bored just be spiritual and believe only in a generic creator and that's okay if they want to worship it but you tell me that it's visited them for their ancient ancestors and I have to believe or else? Lol

I have a question for you Sealy...have you TRULY accepted your atheism?
....you are like the antichristian energizer bunny.

Sealy doesn't identify as a pure atheist. I posted earlier on this thread or another that I don't think my brother, Sealy, has quite figured out what he is yet. That's ok. He is working his path. I think he is a Taoist at heart, but it's up to him and that's just my opinion. We will see what path brother Sealy takes. Life is a wonderful thing and people are dynamic creatures. Where Sealy is now is not where he will be in 5 years. I don't know where he will be, that's up to him, but that is the beauty of life...we grow and we change our minds

 

[sealybobo]

"So what I dont believe in God?"

Actually there's nothing not to believe in, given the fact there is no 'god' as perceived by theists, and religion is a creation of man.

Acknowledging the fact that there is no 'god' is not a 'belief,' religion is belief, being free from faith is recognizing the truth.

and don't say it wrong we are not saying there is not a god that would be assuming we know there is no god you can't know that. to know that you have to be a god yourself and be able to be in all places at the same time as God might be hiding behind one moon while you're looking behind another son.I'm saying I don't believe there is a God. I certainly don't believe any organized religions stories of how God visited them insane typically I just don't see a creator other than something else that is whatever the universe is always is and always will be maybe not this universe but other universes will exist on the other side of black holes our universe will collapse another one will be born billions and billions of infinite time space unimaginable. and unless you're a part of an organized religion that says you have to believe or else you can't go to heaven or even worse you'll go to hell then it really doesn't matter if I believe there's a creator or not maybe there is maybe there isn't so what? is there a heaven waiting for you because you believe there is?oftentimes I find myself sad that I have to tell religious people that are following a fairytale but I think it's healthy for people to know the truth and that swallow a lie. I think the human species and the planet will be better off when we shed this ancient belief system. Maybe in the future you bored just be spiritual and believe only in a generic creator and that's okay if they want to worship it but you tell me that it's visited them for their ancient ancestors and I have to believe or else? Lol

I have a question for you Sealy...have you TRULY accepted your atheism?
....you are like the antichristian energizer bunny.

that's like asking a born again if they really believe as they run around asking everybody if they know where they're going to go when they die. of course I'm sure. after years of soul searching. and how refreshing it is

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

actually he admits that all the organized religions are all made up and they don't know anything he can't even defend organized religions he all he says all he believes in something must have made us. I keep asking me what that is and he can't tell me just like you can't

????......we've both told you.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't hate you I don't think you're evil you have to realize that I think you're the ones being lied to I think you're the ones who are brainwashed I feel sorry for you I wish you would wake up I'm trying to help you so remember I'm not attacking you I'm attacking the organization that has you under mind control

lol.....so, your father is religious.......you think he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control.....but you don't disrespect him..........

science tells us to question the stories of the Ancients question authority question your elders. you might call that disrespect but I think it would be absolutely ignorant to not question our elders. think about how much more we know now that we did 500 years ago. Now think what we will know 500 years from now that we don't know right now. seems like you don't like the scientific method

lol..nice dodge......questioning your elders is NOT saying he's brainwashed, believes lies, needs waking up and is under mind control......and we've demonstrated in previous discussions that I understand the scientific method far better than you do.......you still haven't admitted that experimentation is one of the requirements......you've replaced it with hope.......