So Precisely How Is A Question About Citizenship "Political"?

[OldLady]

What are you doing even reading HuffPo?

Have you and Lakota all of a sudden become good friends? Or are you in fact the same poster, just posting threads from a different POV?

This is the most utter piece of crap source to post from.


See, here's the problem with the article, it spreads disinformation that needs to be stopped at the source, I see it EVERYWHERE in the MSM. They are spreading a false notion, it is the notion that undocumented immigrants even HAVE civil rights and civil liberties to begin with.

Let's examine the by-line of this propaganda, and we need not read on. . .

Civil rights groups say the question is untested and could depress response rates among minorities.

Although, Mr. Holder's tweet tells us all we need to know;

"Constitution does not require citizenship question. This is purely political. Trump Administration is trying to rig the 2020 Census (to protect gerrymandering) by intimidating people. Don’t be fooled-some states will unfairly lose funds and representation. We will sue. https://twitter.com/demredistrict/status/978490568182509569 …"

Undocumented immigrants DO NOT HAVE civil rights and civil liberties protected by the Constitution. Do Russian, Chinese, and Iranians have civil rights and civil liberties protected by our constitution? Of course not.

That is what these illegals are, they are citizens of foreign nations, covered by the laws of OTHER nations. They are only protected by the UN charter on HUMAN RIGHT, IOW, they only have HUMAN RIGHTS, that is all.

When Mr. Holder tweeted, what he was basically saying, was, with the addition of such a question, it will be harder to rig elections based on non-citizen representation.

I cannot stress enough, when ever the MSM feeds you bullshit about illegals being denied their "civil rights and civil liberties," remember, ONLY CITIZENS are covered by the Constitutional LAW. If a lawyer or a judge rules otherwise, they are a globalist. Our law is not to apply to foreigners.

Wrong....
Anyone living on our soil has the same civil rights as citizens, UNLESS they have diplomatic immunity......

The courts settled this already Mr. Bealle?

Care4all, have you come across the actual question that will be on the Census? I have not been able to find it.

 

[Care4all]

they can't vote
they should not be counted when calculating the number of representatives a state is allowed in Congress

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State

What does that mean to you?

Wrong....
Anyone living on our soil has the same civil rights as citizens, UNLESS they have diplomatic immunity......

The courts settled this already Mr. Bealle?

they can't vote
they should not be counted when calculating the number of representatives a state is allowed in Congress

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

 

[Care4all]

What are you doing even reading HuffPo?

Have you and Lakota all of a sudden become good friends? Or are you in fact the same poster, just posting threads from a different POV?

This is the most utter piece of crap source to post from.


See, here's the problem with the article, it spreads disinformation that needs to be stopped at the source, I see it EVERYWHERE in the MSM. They are spreading a false notion, it is the notion that undocumented immigrants even HAVE civil rights and civil liberties to begin with.

Let's examine the by-line of this propaganda, and we need not read on. . .

Civil rights groups say the question is untested and could depress response rates among minorities.

Although, Mr. Holder's tweet tells us all we need to know;

"Constitution does not require citizenship question. This is purely political. Trump Administration is trying to rig the 2020 Census (to protect gerrymandering) by intimidating people. Don’t be fooled-some states will unfairly lose funds and representation. We will sue. https://twitter.com/demredistrict/status/978490568182509569 …"

Undocumented immigrants DO NOT HAVE civil rights and civil liberties protected by the Constitution. Do Russian, Chinese, and Iranians have civil rights and civil liberties protected by our constitution? Of course not.

That is what these illegals are, they are citizens of foreign nations, covered by the laws of OTHER nations. They are only protected by the UN charter on HUMAN RIGHT, IOW, they only have HUMAN RIGHTS, that is all.

When Mr. Holder tweeted, what he was basically saying, was, with the addition of such a question, it will be harder to rig elections based on non-citizen representation.

I cannot stress enough, when ever the MSM feeds you bullshit about illegals being denied their "civil rights and civil liberties," remember, ONLY CITIZENS are covered by the Constitutional LAW. If a lawyer or a judge rules otherwise, they are a globalist. Our law is not to apply to foreigners.

Wrong....
Anyone living on our soil has the same civil rights as citizens, UNLESS they have diplomatic immunity......

The courts settled this already Mr. Bealle?

Care4all, have you come across the actual question that will be on the Census? I have not been able to find it.

no I haven't, I am just discussing the concept of it all....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State

What does that mean to you?

they can't vote
they should not be counted when calculating the number of representatives a state is allowed in Congress

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

 

[OldLady]

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State

What does that mean to you?

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

 

[Care4all]

What are you doing even reading HuffPo?

Have you and Lakota all of a sudden become good friends? Or are you in fact the same poster, just posting threads from a different POV?

This is the most utter piece of crap source to post from.


See, here's the problem with the article, it spreads disinformation that needs to be stopped at the source, I see it EVERYWHERE in the MSM. They are spreading a false notion, it is the notion that undocumented immigrants even HAVE civil rights and civil liberties to begin with.

Let's examine the by-line of this propaganda, and we need not read on. . .

Civil rights groups say the question is untested and could depress response rates among minorities.

Although, Mr. Holder's tweet tells us all we need to know;

"Constitution does not require citizenship question. This is purely political. Trump Administration is trying to rig the 2020 Census (to protect gerrymandering) by intimidating people. Don’t be fooled-some states will unfairly lose funds and representation. We will sue. https://twitter.com/demredistrict/status/978490568182509569 …"

Undocumented immigrants DO NOT HAVE civil rights and civil liberties protected by the Constitution. Do Russian, Chinese, and Iranians have civil rights and civil liberties protected by our constitution? Of course not.

That is what these illegals are, they are citizens of foreign nations, covered by the laws of OTHER nations. They are only protected by the UN charter on HUMAN RIGHT, IOW, they only have HUMAN RIGHTS, that is all.

When Mr. Holder tweeted, what he was basically saying, was, with the addition of such a question, it will be harder to rig elections based on non-citizen representation.

I cannot stress enough, when ever the MSM feeds you bullshit about illegals being denied their "civil rights and civil liberties," remember, ONLY CITIZENS are covered by the Constitutional LAW. If a lawyer or a judge rules otherwise, they are a globalist. Our law is not to apply to foreigners.

Wrong....
Anyone living on our soil has the same civil rights as citizens, UNLESS they have diplomatic immunity......

The courts settled this already Mr. Bealle?

they can't vote
they should not be counted when calculating the number of representatives a state is allowed in Congress

Women and children could not vote either, should they have been left out as well?

 

[Care4all]

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State

What does that mean to you?

too bad so sad.

The constitution specifically states that ALL PEOPLE within a State get counted in the census that determines the number of representatives, but only citizens meeting age requirements, not aiding an enemy can vote....

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

But at the time of this being written and enacted, were women and children, who could not vote, taken out of the census count for representation?

 

[BlackSand]

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

Asking a question in regards to citizenship does not particularly mean that you are not counted ... It is a statistical representation of your count.
None of which negates the ability of Congress to require that statistical data in the count (census).

If you want to discuss whether illegal aliens should count towards Representation ... Why should they?


.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

You will get a les accurate account of the PEOPLE within a state, that the constitution REQUIRES to alot the number of Representatives.....

The census was never purposed to determine the number of illegals in a state.

PERIOD

and what the Republicans are trying to do, is merely for political purpose, to disenfranchise States of their legal representation in Congress.

There is NO OTHER PURPOSE for this suggestion of theirs than to make the constitutionally mandated federal census inaccurate, so to reduce the number of US Congressmen from states like California.

END OF STORY

we are on to you and your dirty tricks, Republicans.

That's less than accurate ... As usual coming from you in this discussion.
Feel free to argue with the Supreme Court if you feel like arguing the matter any further ...

"It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people. On numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census."


.

an accurate account of the number of people in a census is important, and all studies show, that putting in this question of citizenship, reduces the accuracy of how many people reside in the USA.

Non-citizen should not be counted for representation.
It's unfair to the citizens.
It encourages illegal immigration.
It's bad for our country.

 

[Care4all]

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.



What does that mean to you?

The 14th amendment clealry states that those not eligible to vote do NOT count toward representation of a State read your OWN QUOTED section.

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

from going thru endless censuses from my ancestry search, the question on the earliest censuses, was how many MALE white/non slaves are in your household, 21 yrs or older?

(btw, I FINALLY figured it out on my ancestry, who was who's daddy thingy)

 

[Care4all]

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

Asking a question in regards to citizenship does not particularly mean that you are not counted ... It is a statistical representation of your count.
None of which negates the ability of Congress to require that statistical data in the count (census).

If you want to discuss whether illegal aliens should count towards Representation ... Why should they?


.

It just makes it INACCURATE....

 

[OldLady]

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

Asking a question in regards to citizenship does not particularly mean that you are not counted ... It is a statistical representation of your count.
None of which negates the ability of Congress to require that statistical data in the count (census).

If you want to discuss whether illegal aliens should count towards Representation ... Why should they?


.

The problem is when ICE is going full bore to remove illegal aliens (I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong) the question WILL very much cause illegals not to answer the census at all, meaning they are not counted at all. THAT is the problem.

 

[OldLady]

I'm just trying to go over each sentence in it RGS....

the first sentence implies that the count of all people within the state determines the number of representatives....does it not?

We will go over the rest as well, but this very first part does imply that it is not just those that are 21 and over, and male citizens that have not committed treason or other crimes, that is counted in the census for representatives. right?

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

from going thru endless censuses from my ancestry search, the question on the earliest censuses, was how many MALE white/non slaves are in your household, 21 yrs or older?

(btw, I FINALLY figured it out on my ancestry, who was who's daddy thingy)

 

[Care4all]

the census, and an accurate account of people in each state, is used for several other purposes....

as example, how many vaccines the fed gvt needs to have on hand to ship to each region for some sort of epidemic....

An accurate census count is important.....

 

[Care4all]

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

from going thru endless censuses from my ancestry search, the question on the earliest censuses, was how many MALE white/non slaves are in your household, 21 yrs or older?

(btw, I FINALLY figured it out on my ancestry, who was who's daddy thingy)

View attachment 185164

The first, came in between 1690 and 1700, and he came here, with 5 other brothers, because some Duke or Earle in England granted him 600 acres in Virginia....!!!!

 

[Care4all]

Read the whole thing it states that for purpose of representation any one 21 and older that is denied the vote is not counted. Well it says males but that has been modified by the womans right to vote.

But all citizen women and children are not permitted to vote....are you saying that this means that there are only representatives for citizen males 21 and over that are able to vote, and no other citizens in the USA have representation?

The 14th would be amended automatically by the amendment allowing women to vote as you know full well. It is clear those that can not vote and are of age to vote do NOT count for representation. That means ILLEGAL ALIENS.

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

from going thru endless censuses from my ancestry search, the question on the earliest censuses, was how many MALE white/non slaves are in your household, 21 yrs or older?

(btw, I FINALLY figured it out on my ancestry, who was who's daddy thingy)

View attachment 185164

oh, and it turned out, the two households I was trying to figure out which one he came from....THEY WERE second cousins or third? cousins, their grandfathers, were brothers.
Edit:
I actually found it in a history book of sorts, several of them actually, written over a hundred years ago, about them....

OH.... and Bible notes.

 

[Care4all]

ok, I'm still researching the 14th and censuses.... just found this....

Section 2 states that representation to Congress must be determined based on the whole population. In other words, both white and African American had to be counted equally. Prior to this, African American populations were undercounted when apportioning representation. This section also stipulated that all males 21 years or older were guaranteed the right to vote.

Were African American slaves, considered citizens, even though they had no rights as citizens? Why were they counted in the censuses as 3/4's of a person, if they had no rights to vote or for anything?

 

[BlackSand]

What about people living here to work on a visa? Or legal immigrants who are not yet citizens? Maybe those things did not apply when the Constitution was written, but there are plenty of people here LEGALLY who cannot vote. (Also including convicted felons, in some states)

Asking a question in regards to citizenship does not particularly mean that you are not counted ... It is a statistical representation of your count.
None of which negates the ability of Congress to require that statistical data in the count (census).

If you want to discuss whether illegal aliens should count towards Representation ... Why should they?


.

The problem is when ICE is going full bore to remove illegal aliens (I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong) the question WILL very much cause illegals not to answer the census at all, meaning they are not counted at all. THAT is the problem.

ICE doesn't have anything to do with the question I asked you.

What you see as a problem is whether or not foreign agents (illegal immigrants) will answer a census question.
That doesn't present a problem at all ... They answer it or they don't ... If they are illegal immigrants, that's their problem.

My question was ... "If you want to discuss whether illegal aliens should count towards Representation ... Why should they?"

.

 

[BlackSand]

...

Were African American slaves, considered citizens, even though they had no rights as citizens? Why were they counted in the censuses as 3/4's of a person, if they had no rights to vote or for anything?

Your answer is clear ... They were considered citizens and not illegal immigrants ...

.

 

[BlackSand]

the census, and an accurate account of people in each state, is used for several other purposes....

as example, how many vaccines the fed gvt needs to have on hand to ship to each region for some sort of epidemic....

An accurate census count is important.....

That's fine ... If they want to be counted ... The census allows for that even with a citizenship question.
If they don't want to answer ... Tough shit ... Oh well.

.