Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[Valox]

I agree... a private person running a business... is NOT the church... and they are out of luck.

A catholic hospital.... is run by the church.

No, it is not.

Yes, it is run by the church...

Perhaps I was wrong on this, but my argument still holds. Just because the Catholic Church runs a secular institution does not give them the permission to discriminate under Obamacare.

quote]It receives state aid, is open to the public, and hires non-Catholic.

So what? All employees are treated equally...[/quote]

No, they are not. Nurses working for a non "Catholic Church run" hospital are treated differently than nurses working for a "Catholic run" hospital.

Therefore, you want preferential treatment.

Stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics and then I will agree with you.

Yes, that'll save lives... Only treat Catholics...

[/quote]

If you really want to save lives, then either lets experiment with purely free markets in the HC industry, offer a PO, or move to single payer.

This mandate is BS. However, operating under this mandate, should not give secular Catholic institutions a free pass.

 

[Sky Dancer]

A Catholic Church is run by the Catholic Church and all proceeds go to the Church. They base medical decisions on Church policy and they get nice fat tax breaks to go along with it.

 

[syrenn]

No, it is not.

Yes, it is run by the church...

Perhaps I was wrong on this, but my argument still holds. Just because the Catholic Church runs a secular institution does not give them the permission to discriminate under Obamacare.

[
So what? All employees are treated equally...

No, they are not. Nurses working for a non "Catholic Church run" hospital are treated differently than nurses working for a "Catholic run" hospital.

Therefore, you want preferential treatment.

Stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics and then I will agree with you.

Yes, that'll save lives... Only treat Catholics...

If you really want to save lives, then either lets experiment with purely free markets in the HC industry, offer a PO, or move to single payer.

This mandate is BS. However, operating under this mandate, should not give secular Catholic institutions a free pass.[/QUOTE]


how many times do you have to be told..... catholic hospitals are NOT secular institutions.


Nurses working for a "catholic run" hospital... are not working for the church. They are working for a hospital run by people who are catholic..... not the same thing at all.

 

[Valox]

I agree... a private person running a business... is NOT the church... and they are out of luck.

A catholic hospital.... is run by the church.

No, it is not. It receives state aid, is open to the public, and hires non-Catholic.

Stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics and then I will agree with you.

It is open to the public... the public can avail themselves of the service...or not. Their choice. No one is forcing them to go into a catholic hospital.

Yes, I understand and appreciate this service. Before Obamacare was implemented, I would have agreed with you.

However, thanks to this shitty mandate, all secular institutions should fall under it or not. There should be no preferential treatment, in which Catholics are arguing for.

Again, get rid of the mandate and problem solved.

 

[Valox]

how many times do you have to be told..... catholic hospitals are NOT secular institutions.

They are. Just because the Catholic Church helps funds (with substantial assistance from the state) to open up a pizza shop that serves the public, and hires Non-Catholics does make it fall under the Catholic Church.

 

[syrenn]

No, it is not. It receives state aid, is open to the public, and hires non-Catholic.

Stop serving the public, stop taking state aid, and stop hiring non-Catholics and then I will agree with you.

It is open to the public... the public can avail themselves of the service...or not. Their choice. No one is forcing them to go into a catholic hospital.

Yes, I understand and appreciate this service. Before Obamacare was implemented, I would have agreed with you.

However, thanks to this shitty mandate, all secular institutions should fall under it or not. There should be no preferential treatment, in which Catholics are arguing for.

Again, get rid of the mandate and problem solved.

I have zero love for any religion. I am also .... pro choice..... so me sticking up for the church...is not something i do.

obama is wrong... obamacare is worng... the mandate is wrong.


The catholics are finally going to stick up for themselves. Good for them.

 

[Valox]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

 

[Valox]

I have zero love for any religion. I am also .... pro choice..... so me sticking up for the church...is not something i do.

obama is wrong... obamacare is worng... the mandate is wrong.

I agree for the right reasons.

The catholics are finally going to stick up for themselves. Good for them. [/COLOR]

I agree for different reasons.

 

[saveliberty]

A noncatholic employee can use contraception, the Catholic Church just isn't going to pay for it. No rights violation, unless you count the state trying to tell a religion what to do.

 

[del]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.

However, religious institutions that employ and serve people outside their faith -- hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- have to comply with the requirement to cover birth control if they offer health insurance coverage for employees. That means such Catholic institutions, which employ and serve wide swaths of non-Catholics across the country, will not be exempt, despite church teachings against use of contraception.

Obama Administration's New Contraception Rule Puts Key Catholic Vote at Risk

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

since their employes decided to take the paycheck

duh

 

[syrenn]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

Sure they can revolt. Its against their religion.

If you want pork... dont get it from a muslim or jewish butcher.

A butcher is not a institution... its a business. And i would LOVE to see obama try and force something on the muslims. That would be quite something to watch. You see.. the catholics dont put fatwas out to kill you if you say or do something against what they believe.

 

[California Girl]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

That's because you see them as 'secular', we do not. I appreciate that, if you are not Catholic, you may not understand it. But to us, it is very clear. What we do that you call 'secular', we see as a religious duty. If you look at the work of the Church, and the life of Christ... you will see it very clearly. He healed the sick - we fund hospitals. He was a teacher - we fund schools. He cared for the poor, the outcasts and mankind - that is what we do through our social programs. That is why we 'hold in trust' literally trillons of dollars worth of treasures... we do not own those treasures... we save them, care for them, and store them... as our duty to the history of mankind.

Everything we do, we do for very specific reasons. You may not understand those reasons, but that does not make them less valid.

Obama promised our Church that we would not be forced to choose between the law and our conscience. He looked our Arch Bishop in the eye and flat out lied to him. He is a dishonest bastard... and Catholics will not forget that.... come November.

 

[Mustang]

Prediction: The Catholic Church will drop all health insurance for employees.

Catholic hospitals dropping health insurance? What irony.

 

[Valox]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

Sure they can revolt. Its against their religion.

If you want pork... dont get it from a muslim or jewish butcher.

A butcher is not a institution... its a business. And i would LOVE to see obama try and force something on the muslims. That would be quite something to watch. You see.. the catholics dont put fatwas out to kill you if you say or do something against what they believe.

Sure, they can revolt. However, that shouldn't give them preferential treatment to opt out of this mandate.

 

[del]

Simple...

My House - My Rules...

Don't like my rules? GTFO....

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers. The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you. That may be the libertarian dream, but it's also why you've never seen anyone turn a government over to them.

hey, stupid

the first amendment only restricts the government; the constitution protects us from the govt

got it?

good

 

[del]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should fill a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

let me know how that works out

 

[del]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

For fuck's sake, I am like a broke record player.

Stop serving the public. According the CRA, which was passed by a majority of Republicans, you cannot discriminate employment who serve the public based on religious views.

yes, you are

stfu

 

[saveliberty]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

Sure they can revolt. Its against their religion.

If you want pork... dont get it from a muslim or jewish butcher.

A butcher is not a institution... its a business. And i would LOVE to see obama try and force something on the muslims. That would be quite something to watch. You see.. the catholics dont put fatwas out to kill you if you say or do something against what they believe.

Sure, they can revolt. However, that shouldn't give them preferential treatment to opt out of this mandate.

Access to contraception is not denied, just payment. The Catholic Church should just drop healthcare coverage for all employees, except priests. Problem solved. The argument over the morality of contraception from the left should be highly entertaining.

 

[syrenn]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

Sure they can revolt. Its against their religion.

If you want pork... dont get it from a muslim or jewish butcher.

A butcher is not a institution... its a business. And i would LOVE to see obama try and force something on the muslims. That would be quite something to watch. You see.. the catholics dont put fatwas out to kill you if you say or do something against what they believe.

Sure, they can revolt. However, that shouldn't give them preferential treatment to opt out of this mandate.

Have you see now many companies are opting out of obamacare?

 

[Valox]

For instance, if a federal mandate was issued that all butchers have to serve pork, then Jewish butchers who serve the public should not receive preferential treatment.

While the mandate is completely wrong, it should not make preferential treatments to secular institutions, regardless of religious views.

That's because you see them as 'secular', we do not. I appreciate that, if you are not Catholic, you may not understand it. But to us, it is very clear. What we do that you call 'secular', we see as a religious duty. If you look at the work of the Church, and the life of Christ... you will see it very clearly. He healed the sick - we fund hospitals. He was a teacher - we fund schools. He cared for the poor, the outcasts and mankind - that is what we do through our social programs. That is why we 'hold in trust' literally trillons of dollars worth of treasures... we do not own those treasures... we save them, care for them, and store them... as our duty to the history of mankind.

I appreciate this. However, these sentiments do not take away my argument that these institutions who serve the public, receive state aid, and hire non-Catholics should be exempt from Obamacare.

Everything we do, we do for very specific reasons. You may not understand those reasons, but that does not make them less valid.

I understand those reasons and I wished you followed them more. Despite all your proclamation that Catholics are some of the most loving, caring, and understanding people in the world, you are one of the most hateful and spiteful persons on this board. I wished you lived up to your religion.

In fact, I am surprised that you responded with a thoughtful post without personal attacks.

Obama promised our Church that we would not be forced to choose between the law and our conscience. He looked our Arch Bishop in the eye and flat out lied to him. He is a dishonest bastard... and Catholics will not forget that.... come November.

Obama promised a lot honey. You are not the first group of people who he didn't live up to. Get over yourself.