Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[Valox]

We also give billions to the states in aid. Without us, your taxes or your deficit would be a few billion more.

Irrelevant, but enjoy your red herring. Our out of control spending and tax policy is another issue. Please don't pollute the conservation.

Catholic Charities depend upon billions of dollars from the state to fund their organizations. Stop taking state aid, setting up secular institution, and then passive-aggressively forcing your beliefs upon the public.

You started the 'red herring' bullshit, moron.

Without us, you lose your fucking White House. Got that? Good.

lol...more nonsense from you. Like I care if Obama loses. I care who replaces him, since fake Conservatives love their RHINOs and don't have a valid candidate.

I am not an Obama fan. I just dislike the current crop of Republicans more than I dislike the current crop of Democrats, but this does not have anything to do with the actual conversation, does it?

 

[California Girl]

Not according the CRA which bars employers who serve the public from discriminating based on religion.

We're aware of that. But we will not violate our conscience because your Asshole in the Oval says we have to. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

He'll fold. Like a pack of cards. He picked the wrong religion to piss off.

More logical fallacies from you. I unenthusiastically voted for Bob Barr last election, but according to you Obama is my man. Why? Just because I disagree with you? Therefore, anyone who disagrees with you must have voted for Obama.

I am also against the federal mandate (i.e. Obamacare), dumbass.

Stop trying to pigeon hole people who disagree with and force words into their mouth.

I don't care who you voted for, nor do I care what your politics are. This is about our conscience as Catholics. Obama lied to the Church. And we tend not to like that in our Presidents.

 

[whitehall]

Force their values? That's a slick Alinsky spin on the situation. The government wants to force the Catholic Church to spend money on programs that are against Church policy. It's like forcing muslem employers to feed pork to their employees.

 

[Valox]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.

However, religious institutions that employ and serve people outside their faith -- hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- have to comply with the requirement to cover birth control if they offer health insurance coverage for employees. That means such Catholic institutions, which employ and serve wide swaths of non-Catholics across the country, will not be exempt, despite church teachings against use of contraception.

Obama Administration's New Contraception Rule Puts Key Catholic Vote at Risk

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

The way i see it, the catholic church is not forcing anyone to do anything.

1)No one if forcing anyone to work for them.

2)They are not offering something that they do not believe in..... not offering somethings not forcing anything onto anyone.

Again, the problem is the mandate. If the mandate goes, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However, the Catholic Church wants preferential treatment. For instance, if the Catholic Church decided to open up a auto-repair shop (with government funding) and then claim that Obamacare violates their rights and therefore should be exempt, should they? The simple answer is no.

The Church is exempt, not their secular organizations.

 

[Valox]

We're aware of that. But we will not violate our conscience because your Asshole in the Oval says we have to. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

He'll fold. Like a pack of cards. He picked the wrong religion to piss off.

More logical fallacies from you. I unenthusiastically voted for Bob Barr last election, but according to you Obama is my man. Why? Just because I disagree with you? Therefore, anyone who disagrees with you must have voted for Obama.

I am also against the federal mandate (i.e. Obamacare), dumbass.

Stop trying to pigeon hole people who disagree with and force words into their mouth.

I don't care who you voted for, nor do I care what your politics are. This is about our conscience as Catholics. Obama lied to the Church. And we tend not to like that in our Presidents.

Then perhaps you should not have made those red herrings and strawmen arguments if you wanted to have an actual conversation.

Try sticking to the topic and try being civil.

 

[California Girl]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.



What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

The way i see it, the catholic church is not forcing anyone to do anything.

1)No one if forcing anyone to work for them.

2)They are not offering something that they do not believe in..... not offering somethings not forcing anything onto anyone.

Again, the problem is the mandate. If the mandate goes, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However, the Catholic Church wants preferential treatment. For instance, if the Catholic Church decided to open up a auto-repair shop (with government funding) and then claim that Obamacare violates their rights and therefore should be exempt, should they? The simple answer is no.

The Church is exempt, not their secular organizations.

We're asking that the fucking dishonest hack in the White House honor his promise to our Church.

Your 'intellectually challenged' scenario is of no relevance. None. Nada. Zip.

The question should be 'Since when does the Government have the right to force those of faith to violate their conscience'.... but that would make the left meltdown.

 

[konradv]

Simple...

My House - My Rules...

Don't like my rules? GTFO....

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers. The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you. That may be the libertarian dream, but it's also why you've never seen anyone turn a government over to them.

 

[Caroljo]

If someone doesn't want to follow the rules in a Catholic (or other Christian) hospital or business (like a catholic college) then they don't have to work there! When you hire into a job, they let you know their rules and how their company is run. If you don't like it...leave! But of course i believe one of Obama's top priorities is to take Christianity right out of the picture.

 

[Mustang]

Lots of employers have rules and restrictions....

When an employer reaches in to the employee's private life, he's going too far.

 

[Valox]

If someone doesn't want to follow the rules in a Catholic (or other Christian) hospital or business (like a catholic college) then they don't have to work there! When you hire into a job, they let you know their rules and how their company is run. If you don't like it...leave! But of course i believe one of Obama's top priorities is to take Christianity right out of the picture.

Again, the CRA prevents employers who serve the public from religious discrimination.

Therefore, stop serving the public if you want to take this sentiment.

 

[konradv]

We're asking that the fucking dishonest hack in the White House honor his promise to our Church.

Your 'intellectually challenged' scenario is of no relevance. None. Nada. Zip.

The question should be 'Since when does the Government have the right to force those of faith to violate their conscience'.... but that would make the left meltdown.

No one's conscience is being violated. No one would have to buy the insurance and no Catholic hospital would be forced to provide the services, just the same opportunity to get the group insurance of their choice, as anyone else.

 

[California Girl]

Simple...

My House - My Rules...

Don't like my rules? GTFO....

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers. The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you. That may be the libertarian dream, but it's also why you've never seen anyone turn a government over to them.

No one is 'forcing' their morals on anyone. But you are violating our first amendment rights. "Freedom for me, but not for thee" - that is the liberal way.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

 

[Valox]

Simple...

My House - My Rules...

Don't like my rules? GTFO....

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers. The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you. That may be the libertarian dream, but it's also why you've never seen anyone turn a government over to them.

No one is 'forcing' their morals on anyone. But you are violating our first amendment rights. "Freedom for me, but not for thee" - that is the liberal way.

No one is violating your First Amendment rights.

 

[California Girl]

We're asking that the fucking dishonest hack in the White House honor his promise to our Church.

Your 'intellectually challenged' scenario is of no relevance. None. Nada. Zip.

The question should be 'Since when does the Government have the right to force those of faith to violate their conscience'.... but that would make the left meltdown.

No one's conscience is being violated. No one would have to buy the insurance and no Catholic hospital would be forced to provide the services, just the same opportunity to get the group insurance of their choice, as anyone else.

The Church disagrees with you on that 'conscience violation' comment. I think Catholics have a better understanding of what violates their consciences than some half wit on a message board.... like you.

Ain't gonna happen. My Messiah outranks your messiah. Your messiah is gonna fold... or lose the election. Either way. He can make that call.

 

[Mustang]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should file a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

What bullshit!!! It's simply a violation of the First Amendment for the RCC to force their morals on their workers.

No it isn't. You aren't forced to work for them.

The Constitution is supposed to protect us from that sort of thing. That particular attitude, when it comes to commerce, has been on the way out for a 100 years. It's in the same arena as safety, you don't get to play with peoples' lives just because they work for you.

The Catholic Church is trying to kill its employees?

 

[syrenn]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.



What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

The way i see it, the catholic church is not forcing anyone to do anything.

1)No one if forcing anyone to work for them.

2)They are not offering something that they do not believe in..... not offering somethings not forcing anything onto anyone.

Again, the problem is the mandate. If the mandate goes, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

However, the Catholic Church wants preferential treatment. For instance, if the Catholic Church decided to open up a auto-repair shop (with government funding) and then claim that Obamacare violates their rights and therefore should be exempt, should they? The simple answer is no.

The Church is exempt, not their secular organizations.

If the auto shop is run by the church.... .... don't work for the church if you dont like what they are offering or not offering in terms of benefits.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should fill a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

What discrimination is taking place?

 

[syrenn]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

So don't work for them. What's the problem?

Maybe the non Catholic employees should fill a class action law suit against their discriminatory employer.

What are they discriminating against?