should the boy scouts of america

[Sunni Man]

Just an informal survey:

"Are there any posters here at USMB that are parents of a young boy.

That wants homosexuals to be scout leaders and to go camping with your son"???

 

[ncarolinadixie]

There is a difference in a homosexual male and a pedofile. There are a lot of homosexual males in this world that do NOT desire young boys. There, again, IMO, have to be some pretty stringent back ground checks done first, but I see nothing wrong with it. There are a hell of a lot of pedofiles out there that are NOT homosexuals so by simply being a homosexual male does not mean that person is a pedofile.

My question in response to the OT is WHAT'S NEXT? If this is allowed to happen, govt. intrusion into what the BSA can and can't do or who they can or can not allow in, are we going to see where someone with a son, who maybe isn't as physically fit or big as other boys, push to have him allowed into the less strenuous Girl Scouts? The BSA are a private organization. There should be no Govt. intrusion into who they do or do not allow in. But as far as there being a problem simply because it just so happens to be a homosexual male, IMO, no. As I stated, simply being homosexual does NOT automatically mean that person is a pedofile and desires young boys.

 

[Emma]

Just an informal survey:

"Are there any posters here at USMB that are parents of a young boy.

That wants homosexuals to be scout leaders and to go camping with your son"???

I have 2 daughters, but between them they have 3 sons (ages 4 - 10). My daughters aren't members, so I'll answer by proxy.

Do I *want* homosexuals to be Scout leaders? No more than I *want* heterosexuals to be Scout leaders. What I *want* are people who are responsible, caring adults interested in providing guidance to youngsters, allowing them to experience all that Scouting has to offer. I *want* adults who are dedicated to providing this in a safe environment (in all respects). If my grandsons were to choose to go into Scouting, I'm not going to fret over this boogeyman you're creating here. Do I want pedophiles in leadership positions? Hell no, and that goes for gay or straight. Do I want the BSA to have policies and procedures in place to protect children from predators (gay or straight, leader or Scout)? Yes. Would I allow the boys to join knowing the leader was gay? Yes.

 

[chanel]

I would not unless he was a father to one of the boys. With that said, I am not anti gay, but I am pro Scouts. It would not be a stretch to imagine many hetero boys refusing to join because it may be branded a gay organization. The boys already get enough grief for wearing uniforms. Allowing gays would be the beginning of the end in my opinion.

 

[Emma]

Crap. My computer froze and I lost the copy I'd made in response to chanel's post.

Most news sites no longer have the original articles posted. After searching around, I found that these (alleged) incidents occurred outside of Scouting activities --- in private, after events, at multiple locations.. I also read a number of comments from people who had been a part of the Sea Scouts while he was a leader. No one indicated they ever witnessed Evans displaying any "grooming" behaviours during Scouting events; in fact, all the comments I've read so far stated the opposite. To blame the BSA for what (allegedly) occurred is ridiculous.

I say "allegedly" because I haven't found anything regarding the outcome of any trial.

Just an additional point here related to what I posted above (bolded). The Sea Scouts are for youth ages 14-20 (male and female, btw). Some of the victims molested on his boat were under 14.

Found this too:

Former scout leader admits molestation

Six years? He confessed to molesting kids for 30 years. He should never see the light of day again.

 

[del]

I can't imagine any normal straight parent of a young boy supporting homos to be part of the Boy Scouts.

i can't imagine any normal straight parent allowing you within a 2 mile radius of their kid.

 

[Sunni Man]

I can't imagine any normal straight parent of a young boy supporting homos to be part of the Boy Scouts.

i can't imagine any normal straight parent allowing you within a 2 mile radius of their kid.

Why?

My kids have been in scouts and played sports for their school.

I never was a scout leader, but I have been a coach.

 

[del]

I can't imagine any normal straight parent of a young boy supporting homos to be part of the Boy Scouts.

i can't imagine any normal straight parent allowing you within a 2 mile radius of their kid.

Why?

My kids have been in scouts and played sports for their school.

I never was a scout leader, but I have been a coach.

because you're an asshole.

 

[Si modo]

This is an organization, not a public school.

Non sequitur. Perhaps you should re-read my post.

I read it fine. You need to explain how you equate an organization with a public school as it applies. You said that the BSA needs to allow gays and atheists in if they want to keep on receiving special treatment from the government.

I asked how so.

And you post information as it applies to a public school.

The BSA is not a public school.



You may want to start by specifying what you mean by special treatment by the government, then explain how public schools and organizations are equivalent.

 

[Kalam]

I read it fine. You need to explain how you equate an organization with a public school as it applies.

Evidently not; I never compared the BSA to public schools.

You said that the BSA needs to allow gays and atheists in if they want to keep on receiving special treatment from the government.

They need to extend membership to atheists. Currently, your sexual preference is not a constitutionally-guaranteed freedom, and their refusal to accept gays shouldn't affect the organization's standing with the federal government.

I asked how so.

And you post information as it applies to a public school.

For your convenience, I'll post the relevant portion of the act I cited:

"no public elementary school, public secondary school, local educational agency, or State educational agency that has a designated open forum or a limited public forum and that receives funds made available through the Department shall deny equal access or a fair opportunity to meet to, or discriminate against, any group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America..."​

 

[JD_2B]

Just an informal survey:

"Are there any posters here at USMB that are parents of a young boy.

That wants homosexuals to be scout leaders and to go camping with your son"???

I have homosexual male friends and they are NOT pedophiles. And yes, I would absolutely trust them to take my son camping, alone, without me.

A pedophile is also not the same thing as a child molester. A pedophile is from the greek "child lover"- and if you google pedophile websites, you will find a lot of blogs on the true feelings of these people. (Who YES I agree, they have problems, but not enough to be automatically called child molesters.) In fact, pedophiles tend to live their lives in a very miserable state, because they know the laws, and they are aware of the feelings children have, and the state of discomfort they might have if anything sexual happened between them and an adult person. Pedophiles, by nature, are probably the most respectful people towards children, in a lot of ways, because they "LOVE" children, meaning they would not do anything to harm them.

I would still be reluctant to allow my son to spend time with anyone whom I had knowledge spent "too much" time around children, or someone who went to parks but did not have a child there, etc. The only reasons I would be hesitant with my son being alone with someone like this is because I am a little worried that a pedophile might push the envelope and make my son feel uncomfortable, even with his or her words, or looking at him, etc.. And someone who spends too much time at parks and around kids, caring for them, etc, may actually be a child molester in predator form. There is a massive difference between a "child sex predator", a "child molester", and a "pedophile".. All have distinctive problems that set them apart from the rest of society, but not all of them think or act the same way towards children. Child molesters do it for pleasure, apparently, and child sex predators do it primarily for power and control, it would seem, IMHO anyways.

t should be noted that pedophiles can also be teachers, ice cream truck drivers, babysitters, child care providers, mentors, and even social workers.

Child predators can also be all of these things.. and prone to lying, scheming, kidnapping, molesting the child, using weapons, and possibly (historically) killing.

Child molesters can be all of the above also (in the pedophile group), though I think they tend to just be more opportunistic, and I think are more prone to molest family members, neighbors, or children of close friends who visit often.

I do not wish to defend pedophiles for whatever their pathologies are- but I do think that people need to learn to differentiate between pedophiles, child molesters, and sexual predators.

 

[Sunni Man]

but I do think that people need to learn to differentiate between pedophiles, child molesters, and sexual predators.

A person knowing the difference between pedophiles, child molesters, homosexual molesters, and sexual predators.

Ain't going to mean jack shit if your child has been molested.

 

[Father Time]

No but the government should not be giving them a damn cent then.

 

[Cecilie1200]

be told by the government whom they can and cannot associate with/give membership too?

Rally in Balboa Park calls on Boy Scouts to end discrimination - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com

If they expect to continue receiving special treatment from the government, yes.

Special treatment from the government in what regards, please?

 

[JD_2B]

but I do think that people need to learn to differentiate between pedophiles, child molesters, and sexual predators.

A person knowing the difference between pedophiles, child molesters, homosexual molesters, and sexual predators.

Ain't going to mean jack shit if your child has been molested.

It will make all the difference, actually- knowing the profile of who is likely to offend, and using common sense regarding your child's safety and well being- can absolutely keep your child safe from harm.

Do you deny this?

 

[chanel]

The govt gives no money. But if that's the consensus, perhaps its time for the govt to stop funding the NAACP. Very discriminatory organization.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If they expect to continue receiving special treatment from the government, yes.

How so?

BSALegal.org >
Subpart 2 - Other Provisions

Requiring that public schools accommodate BSA-related activities and allowing the BSA to use Fort A.P. Hill for their Jamborees (though apparently they'll be using a different site in 2013), mostly. Nothing serious, but government support nonetheless. Any group that discriminates on the basis of religion should not be afforded these privileges in the US.

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."​

BSALegal.org >

See, this is what I was saying. "Oh my fucking God, the government provides services to the BSA! It's government endorsement! Charge in there and start telling them how to operate RIGHT NOW!"

Hey, dumb shit. When you pull your head out, you MIGHT find out that the public schools provide facilities for all kinds of community groups, not just the BSA. They get money for doing so. If I remember correctly from the case, the fort ALSO rents out its space to other groups. There is nothing "special" about it, except insofar as dipshits like you want to try to get the government to single the BSA out and discriminate AGAINST them, and have to be stopped in your bigotry and persecution by the legal system.

 

[Father Time]

You know the Depratment of Defense spends money on the BSA, so yes it is endorsement. Other places rent out land to the scouts for a dollar.

 

[Cecilie1200]

be told by the government whom they can and cannot associate with/give membership too?

Rally in Balboa Park calls on Boy Scouts to end discrimination - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com

Ugh I think its really a bad program.. My son was in boy scouts (cub scouts, I guess) for a total of like 3 months before I pulled him out. It is very disorganized, and there is a lacking of any real ambition within the program..

Boy Scouts of America

The BSA believes "an avowed homosexual is not a role model for the values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law". Although it officially makes no effort to discover the sexual orientation of any person, BSA scout leaders have investigated and expelled non-avowed homosexuals [1] (BSA Discrimination.org:Home -> Site Updates -> not_found). Lawsuits over this matter have gone as high as the United States Supreme Court, which ruled that the BSA is a private association with the right to set its own standards for membership and leadership.

Many critics, especially internal ones, point out that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the single largest donor to BSA, has threatened to remove all support if the policy against homosexuals is removed, and that this is the single largest reason for the policy. The LDS Church in Canada funds the Scouting organization there, in spite of an explicit policy allowing homosexual leaders, and also funds the Girl Scouts of America[?] who similarly tolerate openly homosexual leadership. See also Boy Scouts of America v. Dale

Apparently, as a private organization, they have the right to make decisions like these- just because they are a private organization- The one thing that I think causes the gays pushing for tolerance is that the LDS of is open to homosexual leadership in both Canada and in the US, of Girl Scouts troops, and as of now, open to homosexual leadership of boy scout troops in Canada. The LDS, according to this article, used to be okay with Unitarian Universalist church patches, also, until they decided that the church allowed for too much gayness.

This is another example of ignorance from within religious denominations that are already lacking in approval from the majority of Americans.. You would think they would work on their PR strategy, and find a way of gaining people's respect without being all weird and inconsistent...

And if the goal of churches was to be popular and liked by the secular world, that would matter. Perhaps YOU should learn more about your topic before you speak, because not everyone is concerned about winning Miss Congeniality.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here are my main questions:

Why are homos DEMANDING to be allow to be part of the Boy Scouts???

What is their motive?????

Actually, they aren't. A group has decided to make it's priority, which the group doesn't even consist of gay people, it's straight people fighting for gay rights even when the gay people don't care about something.

Oh wait ... you should know that since you've done sooooooo much research on gay people.

This is the group that held the rally:
Scouting for All: Committed to Scouting, Open to Diversity. Working to end discrimination against gays, atheists, agnostics, other non-theists, and all other groups in the Boy Scouts of America.

And it is a gay rights scouting group..

And also upon further research on the subject, the public land of balboa park is public land, leased by BSA, and it is common knowledge that the use of public land is not to be used for religious purposes.. This was also judged against BSA, that they are a religious organization. Scouting for all is simply contending that the lease BSA has in Balboa park is null and void since they are a religious organization.

'Pathetic' Discrimination of Kids | NBC San Diego

Yes, thank you, we're all well aware that there are hate-filled bigots in this country who seem to think that the government should discriminate against religious people - despite the fact that they are citizens and pay taxes and use fees just like everyone else - and refuse them the exact same services they offer everyone else.