CDZ Should guns and ammo be tax free items? Seattle's gun & ammo tax show why...

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    A couple random thoughts.

    Gun sale trends are comical. When it seems an "anti-gunner" is getting elected go buy stock in ammo companies. Then what changes? Nothing.

    A $25 difference on the cost of a tank of gas is a big deal. If I buy 5 guns a decade a $25 difference.....might make me think about buying one in the county.

    You have lied in your initial post. Probably for dramatic effect but it makes people dig in their heals and makes you look, well, desperate enough to lie. Consider this statement:

    "Too many pro 2nd Amendment people still don't understand that this is the outcome the anti-gunner, democrats wanted....they don't care about the murders..."

    So you are saying the "anti-gunners" motivated by Sandy Hook don't care about murders? They have a different idea than you on how to prevent murders sure. Their method will not work instantly and is not full proof though.
     
  2. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    No...it isn't a lie....the anti-gunners, especially the leadership of the movement, know that a tax on guns does not effect criminals...it won't reduce gun murder....they lied and used funding research as a way to get voters to support their law, in order to force gun stores out of Seattle, which is happening... They know that if they increase taxes on guns and ammo, gun stores won't be able to shift those taxes in a way that keeps their store open.
     
  3. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    At heart I don't think your gun positions and mine are THAT different. Maybe we can play good cop / bad cop and keep guns legal.
     
  4. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    How about we just vote out every democrat.......that would work too....
     
  5. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    ......Tourettes......?

    Your best bet is to make friends with the other side or at least not motivate them to go vote against you.

    Think of this, if it is a rainy day and its time to go vote turnout will be lower and your vote will count more....unless something really motivates ppl to get out.

    You don't want to be the motivator for the other side.
     
  6. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Sorry....I have been watching this debate since the 1990s.....the anti-gunners are no different than book burners.....book burners attack the 1st Amendment.....anti-gunners attack the 2nd Amendment...and both of them do so out of irrational fear....their leaders want to ban all guns....they then use lies and deception, bait and switch, to fool people who are not informed on the topic....I just posted a video interview with a leader of the anti-gun movement...he lied about 4 times on the show with Tucker Carlson....those lies have been documented by myself and others...they are corrected by other people on the shows they appear on...yet they keep pushing lies.....

    Here is the interview....

    This guy uses bait and switch on magazines and rifles,

    He lies about the effectiveness of Australian gun laws.

    He lies about universal background checks....

    The interview starts at the 19:11 mark.....

     
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  7. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    This is why I love the internet.....this article answers your question about getting along with anti-gunners....and it just popped up today....

    Gun Controllers Know Their Policies Won’t Stop Murder. It's Another Game

    Something Else Is Afoot

    With all of these considerations, I oppose all of these proposed laws for the same reason millions and millions of other gun rights advocates oppose them: because they would place additional burdens and restrictions on law-abiding gun owners while doing nothing to prevent criminals from acquiring and using firearms.

    So we are left with this question: if their proposed remedies would be so obviously and demonstrably unlikely to solve the very problems they claim to intend to solve, then why do gun controllers keep advocating these ridiculous and counterintuitive laws?


    The answer is not hard to see. Gun control advocates, like most political actors, are pragmatic and practical. They understand that certain legislative goals and ambitions must play out over a period of time rather than in a political instant. You can see this type of long-game strategy in, say, the American health-care debate: after seven years of Obamacare, Democrats are increasingly pursuing single-payer, something that was much less feasible before the Affordable Care Act. Indeed, Sen. Harry Reid has explicitly stated that Obamacare is intended solely to be “a step in the right direction” towards single-payer, nothing more.

    So it is with gun control: liberals propose these useless laws and regulations not in an attempt to honestly curb gun violence but rather in a long-form attempt to pass other laws down the road. It will be much easier to ban large classes of semiautomatic rifles, after all, after five or ten years of banning scary-looking AR-style “assault weapons.” It will be far easier, too, to sharply restrict firearm purchases after a decade of regulating ammunition sales, the latter of which will soon begin in California.

    This doesn’t have to be some grand conspiracy theory or dark, shadowy intrigue. Gun controllers are not stupid. They understand long-form political action as well as anyone.

    They do not like guns and they are more than patient enough to play the drawn-out politics necessary to curtail American gun rights.

    This is why I oppose these perennial gun control efforts and deeply mistrust the people who advocate them. To be fair, I get it: if the situation were reversed, and I were starting from a legal position in which gun rights were severely restricted in this country, I would play the same game if necessary. It’s the smart thing to do.

    But our Second Amendment rights are too precious and hard-won to allow them to be chipped away by slow and deliberate political strikes. Every worthless gun law passed today will give way to a slightly more restrictive law several years from now, then one more after that, and another after that. Gun controllers are welcome to play this game, of course. But we should be prepared to head them off as early as possible. They understand the stakes, and they understand how to get what they want. So should we.
     
  8. Divine.Wind
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    Divine.Wind Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, but the results of such taxes like Seattle's is to deprive the poor of their Constitutional rights while empowering the rich to have plenty of guns and ammo in case the "poor" get uppity.

    Just goes to so that being "liberal" nowadays simply means a supporting Rich Authoratiarian Tyrants (RATs).
     
  9. Toronado3800
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    I can work with a tax system which charges those the system has to protect more than the it charges the poor who have less to be stolen.
     
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  10. Toronado3800
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    Since the 80's I have learned:

    -If you voted Republican to ban abortion you wasted your time.
    -If you voted Democrat to ban guns you wasted your time.
    -If you voted Republican to stop socialized healthcare....well heck, Reagan had it.
    -If you voted Democrat to stop our wars, nice 8 years of war we had.

    Some nuts on each side want to do ridiculous things. It is up to the majority of us to decide things like,

    "Well since the ER is going to treat everyone anyway how do we most fairly charge for this?"

    Or

    "Lord we're paying alot for this gun crimes unit. How do we most fairly tax ppl for this?"

    And nudge things in a reasonable direction.

    How about this, lets say City A is paying alot to combat gun violence and they decided to hire more cops. How would you like to pay for it?

    Giving every house in the city a gun for defense is only a couple hundred bucks a house...

    We could tax ppl more, probably a bad idea to assign a tax surcharge to crime prone areas even if it woukd be "fair". It opens up my can of worms that a rich man benefits more from the government than a poor man and the rich will be taxed WAY more.
     
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