Science Channel Acknowledges Major Racial Differences

[IanC]

yes, there is a different 'shape' to intelligence. blacks do as well as whites on the front digit span test, where you just repeat back a string of numbers in the same order. but there is a large gap when the numbers have to be repeated in reverse order.

Yep, that's where the g factor kicks in...the more complex the task, the wider the racial cognitive gap.

Is repeating back a list of 3 numbers in reverse order more complex than repeating back a list of 50 numbers in their original order?

I guess if it makes blacks look bad, then yes.

are you one of those people who see a conspiracy where tests are set up to make blacks look bad? can you imagine the money that could be made if someone could invent a test where blacks did just as well, plus there was a correlation with some other mental ability?

I would imagine that there is already a small bit of weighting towards questions that blacks seem more able to answer, just as there is towards questions that females are more likely to get correct. in the long run it doesnt make much difference.

 

[IanC]

I dont think we should get rid of affirmative action. but I do think it should be given out on an individual's achievement rather than as a racial quota. the tie should always go to a minority rather than 'no qualification necessary for a minority'.

There's no such thing as a tie between White people and Afros on qualifications.

Suppose you're an employer. A white person and an Afro apply for a job with you. Both have the same same degree from the same college. Are they equally qualified? Statistically, more than half the Afros at the college have SAT scores that are lower than the bottom quarter of white scores.

That Afro has only gotten to you with an "equal qualification" based on past special treatment.

Suppose the two applicants have the same degree from the same college, and you give them an employment test and they score equally on it (obviously, this is hypothetical). They're still not equally qualified. That Afro is far more likely to be a disruptive employee. For example, in the future, who do you think is most likely to sue you for discrimination in the workplace or steal from you? The white person, or the Afro?

Nope, the white person is more qualified, but you hire the Afro to protect yourself from the the government, unless you've already met the government's quota.

I dont think you understand the spread of abilities in populations, and the difference in size between the black and white populations. there are just as many dull whites as dull blacks; unfortunately there are not as many bright blacks as bright whites.

the benefit to society that comes from AA is that blacks who have the necessary ability will be found and educated so that they can live a middle-class lifestyle that will inspire other blacks to strive for achievement.

that said, I must actually agree with some of your other statements. to get a statistically equal black, that black would have to score higher than the white for technical reasons that I wont get into at this time.

 

[editec]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

 

[IanC]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

I think you would find that the blacks in the IQ100-115 range are better educated and have higher status employment than whites in the same range, due in large part to affirmative action. but I am not necessarily against it because I think it works towards a better society in the long run.

 

[squeeze berry]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

Well, I suppose I'll be the one racist enough to argue otherwise.


The Bell Curve's premise was that we truly are a merit based society. That IQ effects socio-economic status and outcome. They pretty much proved that and logic also dictates that the smarter you are the more likely you are to have a higher socio-economic status. Yes, IQ does make a difference.

The Bell Curve examined large demographic trends, not small samples of individuals. They did not state that any random black is less intelligent than any random white nor that any random black was more likely to be a criminal or a bad person etc. You get the point.

However, I will not argue your point that being born into an affluent family is an advantage. But how was that family fortune acquired, by being stupid?

IQ aside there is also motivation. Motivation and the willingness to work as well as persistence is a factor in socio-economic success. It may take decades to acquire economic security.

For most people it takes decades.

Many people believe that they should have a McMansion, Hummer and BMW 2 years after high school graduation or have their college loans forgiven.

I had to work my way through 2 masters degrees. Why should they be any different?

 

[IanC]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

Well, I suppose I'll be the one racist enough to argue otherwise.


The Bell Curve's premise was that we truly are a merit based society. That IQ effects socio-economic status and outcome. They pretty much proved that and logic also dictates that the smarter you are the more likely you are to have a higher socio-economic status. Yes, IQ does make a difference.

The Bell Curve examined large demographic trends, not small samples of individuals. They did not state that any random black is less intelligent than any random white nor that any random black was more likely to be a criminal or a bad person etc. You get the point.

However, I will not argue your point that being born into an affluent family is an advantage. But how was that family fortune acquired, by being stupid?

IQ aside there is also motivation. Motivation and the willingness to work as well as persistence is a factor in socio-economic success. It may take decades to acquire economic security.

For most people it takes decades.

Many people believe that they should have a McMansion, Hummer and BMW 2 years after high school graduation or have their college loans forgiven.

I had to work my way through 2 masters degrees. Why should they be any different?

Actually, even in affluent homes the smarter siblings do better. by quite a bit.

 

[GodSaveAmerica]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

Blacks who grow up in middle class households fall back into poverty at twice the rate of whites who grow up middle class (38% v.s. 21%). It isn’t for lack of opportunity, right now there is a shortage of skilled labor in the U.S., including factory jobs that do not require a college education. “A recent report by Deloitte for the Manufacturing Institute, based on a survey of manufacturers, found that as many as 600,000 jobs are going unfilled.”

U.S. manufacturing sees shortage of skilled factory workers - The Washington Post

According to a study done by the Pew research foundation, the cause of downward mobility is the failure to obtain the skills needed to acquire a good paying middle class job, and the biggest factor in the black white discrepancy is differences in cogntive ability, as measured by the Air Force Qualification Test. Capitalism does not seem to be the problem.

Pew Finds Many Children Fall Out of the Middle Class as Adults - The Pew Charitable Trusts

 

[Ariux]

I dont think you understand the spread of abilities in populations, and the difference in size between the black and white populations. there are just as many dull whites as dull blacks; unfortunately there are not as many bright blacks as bright whites.

I'm know very well that there some dumb whites. Afros alone didn't give Obama and McCain 99% of the total vote in the last presidential election.

the benefit to society that comes from AA is that blacks who have the necessary ability will be found and educated so that they can live a middle-class lifestyle that will inspire other blacks to strive for achievement.

I think the middle-class lifestyle is achievable to anyone this side of clinical mental retardation. The vast majority of jobs only require modest intellect to be adequately performed. Blacks aren't poor for lack of intelligence, but for lack of morality. Making babies rather than pulling 40hours/week leads to poverty.

I think AA has added a lot of wealth to the black community, but at a high cost, both to society and to blacks. For example, what's better for a marginal Afro? To be accepted to college on AA then drop out after a couple of years or for that same marginal Afro to not be admitted to college and spend those two years earning money and developing a trade?

As for whites, AA simply screws them.

 

[MaryL]

Blacks seem to hate themselves. They can do better than they have, and they aren't. Nobody is holding them down anymore accept themselves. This is soo frustrating to see people hurting and not be able to help them. Asians, the Irish, Jews, name that minority, THEY managed to pull themselves up by their collective bootstraps and persevere. Blacks...You aren't special needs kids, after all. But you prove me wrong all the time. Morgan Freeman made an excellent god, I think.

 

[IanC]

Even if one measures life outcomes parced out by IQ, one finds minorities do less well then their intellectually equivalent white neighbors.

Ergo, IQ does not have as strong a correlation to success in life, especially when compared to the class one originally finds oneself born into.

The most likely indicator of having an affluent life is to find oneself already born into an affluent family.

Now given that we live in a society where capitalism is the economic system, that makes rather perfect sense.

Nothing succeeds in a capitalist system like using the resources of past success to springboard to future successes.

Now seriously, kiddies, who among us is racist enough to try to argue otherwise?

Blacks who grow up in middle class households fall back into poverty at twice the rate of whites who grow up middle class (38% v.s. 21%). It isn’t for lack of opportunity, right now there is a shortage of skilled labor in the U.S., including factory jobs that do not require a college education. “A recent report by Deloitte for the Manufacturing Institute, based on a survey of manufacturers, found that as many as 600,000 jobs are going unfilled.”

U.S. manufacturing sees shortage of skilled factory workers - The Washington Post

According to a study done by the Pew research foundation, the cause of downward mobility is the failure to obtain the skills needed to acquire a good paying middle class job, and the biggest factor in the black white discrepancy is differences in cogntive ability, as measured by the Air Force Qualification Test. Capitalism does not seem to be the problem.

Pew Finds Many Children Fall Out of the Middle Class as Adults - The Pew Charitable Trusts

that black children from middle class families often fall out of the middle class is a disheartening statistic. it is most likely related to the 'regression-to-the-mean' aspect of genetic inheritence of intelligence. eg. parents that are smarter/duller than the average for their race will produce children that are closer to that racial average. typically it is assumed to be on the order of (parent+parent+average+average)divided by 4. because the black average is lower, the children of bright black parents will be affected more than children of bright white parents.

 

[IanC]

Blacks seem to hate themselves. They can do better than they have, and they aren't. Nobody is holding them down anymore accept themselves. This is soo frustrating to see people hurting and not be able to help them. Asians, the Irish, Jews, name that minority, THEY managed to pull themselves up by their collective bootstraps and persevere. Blacks...You aren't special needs kids, after all. But you prove me wrong all the time. Morgan Freeman made an excellent god, I think.

I dont know that blacks hate themselves, it seems more likely that by having a racial lower average intelligence that many blacks are just not capable of acquiring the skills necessary to succeed in a technology based society, and the jobs available that require few skills are considered demeaning and stereotypical.

 

[editec]

What is the correlation between IQ and net worth?

According to this study the actual correlation is tiny at best

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11711-smarter-people-are-no-better-off.html

And if that is true, then lower IQ on average for Blacks is not the explanation for why Blacks are poorer generally.

I'll tell you what does matter, but I can't really think of any scientific way to prove it.

What matters is ATTITUDE about making (wanting to make) money and one's lifestyle generally.


But such things as those are hard to numerate for purposes of studying their effects statistically.

 

[Ariux]

I dont know that blacks hate themselves, it seems more likely that by having a racial lower average intelligence that many blacks are just not capable of acquiring the skills necessary to succeed in a technology based society, and the jobs available that require few skills are considered demeaning and stereotypical.

But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but... what about the legacy of 1700s room-and-board-only employment, and the early 1900s having their own water fountains in some southern towns? When Chinese immigrants come to America to escape Communism, they only have to overcome learning a very different language and a very different culture, which is why they have little trouble being successful.

 

[MHunterB]

"I would imagine that there is already a small bit of weighting towards questions that blacks seem more able to answer, just as there is towards questions that females are more likely to get correct. in the long run it doesnt make much difference. "

IanC, you appear to be suggesting that IQ tests questions are being 'slanted'? And that you feel that females have 'different' IQ than males?

Would you happen to have any references to cite relating to the topic? THX : )

 

[Ariux]

are you one of those people who see a conspiracy where tests are set up to make blacks look bad? can you imagine the money that could be made if someone could invent a test where blacks did just as well, plus there was a correlation with some other mental ability?

I would imagine that there is already a small bit of weighting towards questions that blacks seem more able to answer, just as there is towards questions that females are more likely to get correct. in the long run it doesnt make much difference.

Makers of IQ tests, and liberals with PhDs, have done everything they can think of to boost Afro IQ scores. Women's scores can be boosted by shifting the balance of questions to those that appeal to women's verbal aptitude. But, no similar fudge exists for Afros.

 

[MHunterB]

Maybe so, but after the first 3 or 4 standard deviations the numbers really don't mean all that much.....

 

[IanC]

"I would imagine that there is already a small bit of weighting towards questions that blacks seem more able to answer, just as there is towards questions that females are more likely to get correct. in the long run it doesnt make much difference. "

IanC, you appear to be suggesting that IQ tests questions are being 'slanted'? And that you feel that females have 'different' IQ than males?

Would you happen to have any references to cite relating to the topic? THX : )

slanted? minimally. and it depends on the type of test.

if you really want to learn about this topic I would suggest going to your library and getting them to pull 'Bias in Mental Testing' or 'The g Factor' out of storage. Arthur Jensen's knowledge in this field is astounding.

 

[VaeVictis]

Finally, the media is starting to come around, admitting that racial genetic differences cause IQ differences between the races. The episode on the science channel last Wednesday, hosted by Morgan Freeman, admits that genes code for differences in the brain the lead to differences in how the brains of the races function.

Is this a step toward recognizing that white Americans are not racist? And that blacks are just inherently less intelligent? Are we on the verge of ending affirmative action?

Perhaps one day we can rid the Earth of their scourge entirely. We'll keep Morgan Freeman around, though. Every bigot's got to have one black friend.

Nahh, I would keep Eddie Murphy so i could laugh AT him.

 

[IanC]

What is the correlation between IQ and net worth?

According to this study the actual correlation is tiny at best

Smarter people are no better off - life - 25 April 2007 - New Scientist

And if that is true, then lower IQ on average for Blacks is not the explanation for why Blacks are poorer generally.

I'll tell you what does matter, but I can't really think of any scientific way to prove it.

What matters is ATTITUDE about making (wanting to make) money and one's lifestyle generally.


But such things as those are hard to numerate for purposes of studying their effects statistically.

did you even read your citation? hahahaha

here are the two money quotes-

Zagorsky's analysis confirms the findings of previous studies linking higher intelligence with higher income.

people with higher intelligence scores also had greater wealth. The median net worth for people with an IQ of 120 was almost $128,000 compared with $58,000 for those with an IQ of 100.

Zagorsky then uses regression analysis of other factors to weaken the IQ/net wealth relationship, such as divorce, smoking, and years in school. but are those factors independent from IQ? years in school is very strongly predicated on IQ, smoking and divorce are less correlated but the relationship is still positive.

the cohort was aged 33-41. net worth variance widens with age and career paths have different trajectories. a doctor at 35 may still be paying back student loans, a plumber has been collecting full pay for over 10 years.


of course the study was designed to make everyone happy. everyone can walk away saying, "see, I told you....". frugal people can amass a fortune, spendthrifts can lose a fortune, so what? in the long run smart people make better decisions and end up with more of whatever is important in their life. the statistics show it. smart people even live longer so they can enjoy it.


oh, lets not forget the racial aspect to this. IQ is related to income so the average IQ85 black is already behind. data also show that blacks have worse credit and lower net worth per income earned. there are reasons for this that go beyond the factors applying to other races but the fact is that blacks typically underperform in this area as well. culture and expectations are a powerful influence but hardly one that can be dictated by outside agencies.

 

[Ariux]

Nahh, I would keep Eddie Murphy so i could laugh AT him.

Eddie's Murphy's last few comedies haven't produced many laughs.