Russia's Armata tank falls victim to harsh economic reality

[Viacheslav]

State contracts for the supply of an experimental-industrial batch of T-14 "Armata" tanks for testing were signed, said Colonel-General Oleg Salyukov.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

State contracts for the supply of an experimental-industrial batch of T-14 "Armata" tanks for testing were signed, said Colonel-General Oleg Salyukov.

I see a huge problem with taking this long to get anything into the inventory. If you take too long your enemy has already come up with the counter for your new weapons system even before it's produced. This has happened for both the Armata and the new SUs. Had they been introduced in the time frame promised, the only fighter that would be better would be the meager number of F-22s. Instead, they took so long that they allowed the F-15 the time to stay comparable with both the 57 and 35. Same goes with the Armata. The M-1A-3 is going through a series of updates that keeps it on par with the Armata. And the Armata will have to wait to do any real warring since it's numbers will be really low for quite some time.

 

[Bleipriester]

We're also still waiting on their new super carriers and hypersonic missiles.

Any... day... now...

the USA is technologically 50 ahead of Muscovy, in software in 70 years

The tank is rated the best and most modern.

 

[DrainBamage]

The tank is rated the best and most modern.

What tank, and rated by who? You?

 

[Bleipriester]

The tank is rated the best and most modern.

What tank, and rated by who? You?

Russian Armata tank 'is 20 years ahead of anything in the West' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The tank is rated the best and most modern.

What tank, and rated by who? You?

Russian Armata tank 'is 20 years ahead of anything in the West' | Daily Mail Online

Provided the Russians can get the chips and software from the US; they are banned from it being sent at any cost

Provided the Russians can get the engines from the Ukranians. Good luck on that one. It uses a Ukranian helicopter engine turbine.

Russia is in the process of trying to do these things domestically but are way behind the power curve. The Russians have a tendancy to make claims that are on paper but get caught up some place. Plus, the Tank, if they build it locally, will cost as much as a front lined jet fighter. So far, it's estimated they have only 14 of these turkeys. They had a surplus of engines but with Ukraine refusing to sell them new engines, they have to come up with something else. I guess it wasn't too bright to invade Ukraine afterall.

Just keep hiding the tow rope where we can't see it. We might be duped into believing it just like the
Myasishchev M-4 hoax.

 

[Bleipriester]

Provided the Russians can get the chips and software from the US; they are banned from it being sent at any cost

Russia makes its own stuff.

Provided the Russians can get the engines from the Ukranians. Good luck on that one. It uses a Ukranian helicopter engine turbine.

This is not the T-84 Oplot. The T-14 uses this Diesel engine:
12Н360 - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Russia is in the process of trying to do these things domestically but are way behind the power curve. The Russians have a tendancy to make claims that are on paper but get caught up some place. Plus, the Tank, if they build it locally, will cost as much as a front lined jet fighter. So far, it's estimated they have only 14 of these turkeys. They had a surplus of engines but with Ukraine refusing to sell them new engines, they have to come up with something else. I guess it wasn't too bright to invade Ukraine afterall.

Just keep hiding the tow rope where we can't see it. We might be duped into believing it just like the
Myasishchev M-4 hoax.

Don´t be that silly. Not only the US is able to make advanced weaponry.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Provided the Russians can get the chips and software from the US; they are banned from it being sent at any cost

Russia makes its own stuff.

Provided the Russians can get the engines from the Ukranians. Good luck on that one. It uses a Ukranian helicopter engine turbine.

This is not the T-84 Oplot. The T-14 uses this Diesel engine:
12Н360 - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Russia is in the process of trying to do these things domestically but are way behind the power curve. The Russians have a tendancy to make claims that are on paper but get caught up some place. Plus, the Tank, if they build it locally, will cost as much as a front lined jet fighter. So far, it's estimated they have only 14 of these turkeys. They had a surplus of engines but with Ukraine refusing to sell them new engines, they have to come up with something else. I guess it wasn't too bright to invade Ukraine afterall.

Just keep hiding the tow rope where we can't see it. We might be duped into believing it just like the
Myasishchev M-4 hoax.

Don´t be that silly. Not only the US is able to make advanced weaponry.

What you are saying is that they are using an X Engine. The US gave up on that configuration in the early 40s. It's a dud. The lower two banks will have a bad problem of oil.

Yes, Russia can build modern military equipment if you factor in they are 20 years behind in almost all areas. Yes, your vaunted SU-57 is twenty years behind in everything and so is your Armata Tank. This is what happens when the Russians build it all by themselves.

And there are only 14 Armatas ever built and they aren't operational. They are incomplete. Shades of the Bounder on this one.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The tank is rated the best and most modern.

What tank, and rated by who? You?

Russian Armata tank 'is 20 years ahead of anything in the West' | Daily Mail Online

Oh, I agree. It's ahead of what was originally built 20 years ago by the US if you factor in comparing it to the M-60, that is.

 

[Bleipriester]

Provided the Russians can get the chips and software from the US; they are banned from it being sent at any cost

Russia makes its own stuff.

Provided the Russians can get the engines from the Ukranians. Good luck on that one. It uses a Ukranian helicopter engine turbine.

This is not the T-84 Oplot. The T-14 uses this Diesel engine:
12Н360 - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Russia is in the process of trying to do these things domestically but are way behind the power curve. The Russians have a tendancy to make claims that are on paper but get caught up some place. Plus, the Tank, if they build it locally, will cost as much as a front lined jet fighter. So far, it's estimated they have only 14 of these turkeys. They had a surplus of engines but with Ukraine refusing to sell them new engines, they have to come up with something else. I guess it wasn't too bright to invade Ukraine afterall.

Just keep hiding the tow rope where we can't see it. We might be duped into believing it just like the
Myasishchev M-4 hoax.

Don´t be that silly. Not only the US is able to make advanced weaponry.

What you are saying is that they are using an X Engine. The US gave up on that configuration in the early 40s. It's a dud. The lower two banks will have a bad problem of oil.

Yes, Russia can build modern military equipment if you factor in they are 20 years behind in almost all areas. Yes, your vaunted SU-57 is twenty years behind in everything and so is your Armata Tank. This is what happens when the Russians build it all by themselves.

And there are only 14 Armatas ever built and they aren't operational. They are incomplete. Shades of the Bounder on this one.

You are not serious and it appears to be clear now why you can´t take money for your offerings.

Did you know, by the way, that US aircraft in Syria do have Russian troll jets behind them?

Russische Piloten nach Einsatz in Syrien: "Waren immer Sieger bei Luftkämpfen mit US-Kampfjets"

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Provided the Russians can get the chips and software from the US; they are banned from it being sent at any cost

Russia makes its own stuff.

Provided the Russians can get the engines from the Ukranians. Good luck on that one. It uses a Ukranian helicopter engine turbine.

This is not the T-84 Oplot. The T-14 uses this Diesel engine:
12Н360 - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

Russia is in the process of trying to do these things domestically but are way behind the power curve. The Russians have a tendancy to make claims that are on paper but get caught up some place. Plus, the Tank, if they build it locally, will cost as much as a front lined jet fighter. So far, it's estimated they have only 14 of these turkeys. They had a surplus of engines but with Ukraine refusing to sell them new engines, they have to come up with something else. I guess it wasn't too bright to invade Ukraine afterall.

Just keep hiding the tow rope where we can't see it. We might be duped into believing it just like the
Myasishchev M-4 hoax.

Don´t be that silly. Not only the US is able to make advanced weaponry.

What you are saying is that they are using an X Engine. The US gave up on that configuration in the early 40s. It's a dud. The lower two banks will have a bad problem of oil.

Yes, Russia can build modern military equipment if you factor in they are 20 years behind in almost all areas. Yes, your vaunted SU-57 is twenty years behind in everything and so is your Armata Tank. This is what happens when the Russians build it all by themselves.

And there are only 14 Armatas ever built and they aren't operational. They are incomplete. Shades of the Bounder on this one.

You are not serious and it appears to be clear now why you can´t take money for your offerings.

Did you know, by the way, that US aircraft in Syria do have Russian troll jets behind them?

Russische Piloten nach Einsatz in Syrien: "Waren immer Sieger bei Luftkämpfen mit US-Kampfjets"

The Russians are more than a little over zealous. The only reason it hasn't turned into a shooting war in Syria (Russia is greatly outnumbered) is the restraint by the US Pilots. The deescalation line is there for a purpose that seems to be lost to the irrational behavior you seem to see as heroic. You seem to relish a limited war between the US and Russia. IF it came to that in Syria, you can bet pretty sure that the Russians would not fair very well. At the same time, the Syrian Government will cease to exist and Iran will be booted out. It will escalate well past a managed problem. I suggest you read the last book of the Bible. That just might bring it to fruition. The military leaders of both sides are aware of this and will try and prevent it from happening. Even if it means a limited shooting match that neither side can afford. You can kiss Syria and Iran goodbye even from that.

Given things as they are, I really don't have a clue whether Turkey will support Nato or just sit on it's hands. And neither do you. But I believe the Military Leaders will work hard to either not allow it to happen or minimize the scope. You arm chair Generals all talk the same way. You have no idea what the repercussions would be.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Thank you frackers....

 

[Bleipriester]

The Russians are more than a little over zealous. The only reason it hasn't turned into a shooting war in Syria (Russia is greatly outnumbered) is the restraint by the US Pilots. The deescalation line is there for a purpose that seems to be lost to the irrational behavior you seem to see as heroic. You seem to relish a limited war between the US and Russia. IF it came to that in Syria, you can bet pretty sure that the Russians would not fair very well. At the same time, the Syrian Government will cease to exist and Iran will be booted out. It will escalate well past a managed problem. I suggest you read the last book of the Bible. That just might bring it to fruition. The military leaders of both sides are aware of this and will try and prevent it from happening. Even if it means a limited shooting match that neither side can afford. You can kiss Syria and Iran goodbye even from that.

You forget that there is no American airspace but only Syrian and the only foreign airfocre permitted to roam there is the Russian. Any other aircraft´s presence is a provocation. US aircraft hampered Russian jets and thus were acting as ISIL airforce. Russia can deploy many jets to Syria within hours.

Given things as they are, I really don't have a clue whether Turkey will support Nato or just sit on it's hands. And neither do you. But I believe the Military Leaders will work hard to either not allow it to happen or minimize the scope. You arm chair Generals all talk the same way. You have no idea what the repercussions would be.

The Nato has currently nothing to offer. They are arming the Kurds although they promised Turkey they stopped it. Turkey would probably stand by and pick the winner.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The Russians are more than a little over zealous. The only reason it hasn't turned into a shooting war in Syria (Russia is greatly outnumbered) is the restraint by the US Pilots. The deescalation line is there for a purpose that seems to be lost to the irrational behavior you seem to see as heroic. You seem to relish a limited war between the US and Russia. IF it came to that in Syria, you can bet pretty sure that the Russians would not fair very well. At the same time, the Syrian Government will cease to exist and Iran will be booted out. It will escalate well past a managed problem. I suggest you read the last book of the Bible. That just might bring it to fruition. The military leaders of both sides are aware of this and will try and prevent it from happening. Even if it means a limited shooting match that neither side can afford. You can kiss Syria and Iran goodbye even from that.

You forget that there is no American airspace but only Syrian and the only foreign airfocre permitted to roam there is the Russian. Any other aircraft´s presence is a provocation. US aircraft hampered Russian jets and thus were acting as ISIL airforce. Russia can deploy many jets to Syria within hours.

Given things as they are, I really don't have a clue whether Turkey will support Nato or just sit on it's hands. And neither do you. But I believe the Military Leaders will work hard to either not allow it to happen or minimize the scope. You arm chair Generals all talk the same way. You have no idea what the repercussions would be.

The Nato has currently nothing to offer. They are arming the Kurds although they promised Turkey they stopped it. Turkey would probably stand by and pick the winner.

You mean within weeks. You seem to think there is some sort of Space Transporter. There isn't. Russia doesn't have the tanker fleet to get a large number of AC into Syria unless they were already there. Meanwhile, the US has large forces in Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan and they have the tanker support already in place along with the Aerial Communications birds already in place.

Both would have to fly in reenforcements. Russia from Russia and the US from Europe. The US, with it's more numerous tanker force could do it within 72 hours. The Russians might do it in 3 days.By the time both countries get in a situation to actually send the reenforcements the shoot part is already done. And the Rebels far outnumber the Russian and Syrian forces. At that point, I think Israel will boot Iran clean back to Iran.

Neither the US nor Russia wants this to happen. It's going to take a lot more than one trigger happy pilot to bring this about.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Thank you frackers....

Mano, you might want to expand that, if you will.

 

[Bleipriester]

The Russians are more than a little over zealous. The only reason it hasn't turned into a shooting war in Syria (Russia is greatly outnumbered) is the restraint by the US Pilots. The deescalation line is there for a purpose that seems to be lost to the irrational behavior you seem to see as heroic. You seem to relish a limited war between the US and Russia. IF it came to that in Syria, you can bet pretty sure that the Russians would not fair very well. At the same time, the Syrian Government will cease to exist and Iran will be booted out. It will escalate well past a managed problem. I suggest you read the last book of the Bible. That just might bring it to fruition. The military leaders of both sides are aware of this and will try and prevent it from happening. Even if it means a limited shooting match that neither side can afford. You can kiss Syria and Iran goodbye even from that.

You forget that there is no American airspace but only Syrian and the only foreign airfocre permitted to roam there is the Russian. Any other aircraft´s presence is a provocation. US aircraft hampered Russian jets and thus were acting as ISIL airforce. Russia can deploy many jets to Syria within hours.

Given things as they are, I really don't have a clue whether Turkey will support Nato or just sit on it's hands. And neither do you. But I believe the Military Leaders will work hard to either not allow it to happen or minimize the scope. You arm chair Generals all talk the same way. You have no idea what the repercussions would be.

The Nato has currently nothing to offer. They are arming the Kurds although they promised Turkey they stopped it. Turkey would probably stand by and pick the winner.

You mean within weeks. You seem to think there is some sort of Space Transporter. There isn't. Russia doesn't have the tanker fleet to get a large number of AC into Syria unless they were already there. Meanwhile, the US has large forces in Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan and they have the tanker support already in place along with the Aerial Communications birds already in place.

Both would have to fly in reenforcements. Russia from Russia and the US from Europe. The US, with it's more numerous tanker force could do it within 72 hours. The Russians might do it in 3 days.By the time both countries get in a situation to actually send the reenforcements the shoot part is already done. And the Rebels far outnumber the Russian and Syrian forces. At that point, I think Israel will boot Iran clean back to Iran.

Neither the US nor Russia wants this to happen. It's going to take a lot more than one trigger happy pilot to bring this about.

Russia can deploy the planes within hours. The start in Russia and land in Syria - deployed. Quite easy.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Thank you frackers....

Mano, you might want to expand that, if you will.

Really....pretty simple.Russian econ is built on oil.....lower prices due to increase in supply = less money to Russain and terrorist states to buy weapons.....fortuttious since our armed forces are in disrepair

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Russia can deploy the planes within hours. The start in Russia and land in Syria - deployed. Quite easy.

So you have a tarmac full of birds. What you don't have is the support equipment, fuel, oil, support people and a lot more. 3 days I would buy but not hours. If your birds are sitting on the ground and it's a shooting match you are going to lose your fleet on the ground. You have never been involved in a mass deployment. I have. And while you are doing it so is your enemy. Neither side can do this without being noticed. I have been involved in Tankers, Bombers. Cargp and Fighters Deployment. If you are going to move from Russia to Syria, you won't be there any sooner than Sondy and Haun from Germany.

The F-15 could make the flight unrefueled but it would be too close. That's over 3000 miles. 3400 mile range versus 3100 mile flight. The F-22s and F-35s are 17 hours away at just over 7000 miles. The 22 and 35s will be refueled twice. There is going to be some little white pills involved and the pilots won't be in any shape to fly for a couple of days.

Meanshile, the distance for a direct flight for most of the SU-30s and 27s will be over 3700 miles as well and they will need to be met with Tankers or land and refuel. The Russians don't have the Tanker force that the US has.

The US will use the Tankers they have TDY in Britain. They will launch the Takers about the time the fighters lift off from Germany. The Taker will maintain 500 kts which is faster than the FighterAt the same time, the Taqnkers stateside assigned to Bombers will send a few of those. The KC-135R knows no distance. To give you an idea, my old Wing King wanted to use an R model to go for around the world record in the 80s. The Buff still holds that record. But his tanker broke a ton of records for time to climb just by varying his fuel load. He would have to refuel Somewhere around Madagascar by back flushing a B-52. They left the Buff with the record even though the KC-135R would have shattered the record. The KC-135R does not need to land in Europe. He can fly direct by adding an extra crew. They will be bring Gas, ferrying Fighters and have a load of support equipment and personnel. The C-130s will have to land and refuel at Lajes an island in the Atlantic. They will be loaded with more support equipment but his flight will be more than 16 hours using a second crew. Not my first rodeo.

Regardless for both the Russians and Americans, nothing can happen until the support is in place, the birds gassed up, maintenance done on the fighters and the Pilots well rested. 72 hours for both groups.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Thank you frackers....

Mano, you might want to expand that, if you will.

Really....pretty simple.Russian econ is built on oil.....lower prices due to increase in supply = less money to Russain and terrorist states to buy weapons.....fortuttious since our armed forces are in disrepair

The terrorists temporarily switched to Poppy fields until lately. They are losing that income. They have lost the lucrative Oil, draining the villages dry. They may have to get a job.

Russia is stretched pretty thin with Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. If Russia makes it a point then they will probably lose the Ukrainian holdings and maybe even Georgia. So the last thing on Russias mind is going head to head against the US in Syria. While the US will be hurt, it would be suicidal for Russia.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Thank you frackers....

Mano, you might want to expand that, if you will.

Really....pretty simple.Russian econ is built on oil.....lower prices due to increase in supply = less money to Russain and terrorist states to buy weapons.....fortuttious since our armed forces are in disrepair

The terrorists temporarily switched to Poppy fields until lately. They are losing that income. They have lost the lucrative Oil, draining the villages dry. They may have to get a job.

Russia is stretched pretty thin with Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. If Russia makes it a point then they will probably lose the Ukrainian holdings and maybe even Georgia. So the last thing on Russias mind is going head to head against the US in Syria. While the US will be hurt, it would be suicidal for Russia.

Why would there be a war between us in Syria....we should leave......ISIS is crushed