Russia will want revenge after losing the war, this may happen in 10 years – Ukraine's Defence Intellige

[gipper]

gipper , who claims to hate both parties in the U.S. and to be against imperialism everywhere and “for peace,” here uses the same ugly language supporting pro-Putin Russian imperialists invading Ukraine ,,, as do our most ignorant “Trump Party” authoritarians.

gipper ‘s response was to ESay , who wrote a short thoughtful comment that emphasized his own ambivalence about the present stage of the war, conceding he did not have easy answers and implicitly admitting that Ukrainian efforts to retake all Russian occupied territory may not be realistic.

So gipper ’s attitude was particularly uncalled for.

Gipper is really now acting only as a mouthpiece for crude anti-American and anti-Ukrainian Russian chauvinism and imperial propaganda — which is more and more also the line of radical “Trump Party” authoritarians who admire Putin as a fellow “conservative” and populist. Trump and many of his followers actually admire Putin as a “brilliant” strongman opposed to Western decadence and our “so-called democracy and freedom.” To Gipper, Ukrainians are nothing but “Nazis” and puppets of the U.S.A.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The obsession with claiming that everyone who criticizes US foreign policy -- or the US Security State -- is a Russian agent or a Kremlin apologist is at least as widespread, intense and deranged as it was at the height of McCarthyism. This time it's led by liberals and neocons.

I have criticized US foreign policy — and the “security state” — longer, harder and more clearly than you. Your problem is that you are a crazed reactionary anti-American libertarian crank who cannot see our country ever doing anything right overseas, who sees the Russian invasion of Ukraine as fundamentally justified, and any support for Ukrainian national sovereignty as Nazi-like. That is pure Russian imperial propaganda you are mouthing.

 

[Deadstick]

The obsession with claiming that everyone who criticizes US foreign policy -- or the US Security State -- is a Russian agent or a Kremlin apologist is at least as widespread, intense and deranged as it was at the height of McCarthyism. This time it's led by liberals and neocons.

Spot on, that's how deranged these people are, the you are with us or against us insanity is the level of Nazi Germany, it's not just in the US it's the same here in the UK.

 

[Deadstick]

I have criticized US foreign policy — and the “security state” — longer, harder and more clearly than you. Your problem is that you are a crazed reactionary anti-American libertarian crank who cannot see our country ever doing anything right overseas, who sees the Russian invasion of Ukraine as fundamentally justified, and any support for Ukrainian national sovereignty as Nazi-like. That is pure Russian imperial propaganda you are mouthing.

When the US does something right i will give them credit for it, but WW2 was the last time they did something right, it's been downhill ever since.

 

[gipper]

I have criticized US foreign policy — and the “security state” — longer, harder and more clearly than you. Your problem is that you are a crazed reactionary anti-American libertarian crank who cannot see our country ever doing anything right overseas, who sees the Russian invasion of Ukraine as fundamentally justified, and any support for Ukrainian national sovereignty as Nazi-like. That is pure Russian imperial propaganda you are mouthing.

You are a McCarthyite, but don’t know it.

The obsession with claiming that everyone who criticizes US foreign policy -- or the US Security State -- is a Russian agent or a Kremlin apologist is at least as widespread, intense and deranged as it was at the height of McCarthyism. This time it's led by liberals and neocons.

 

[Silver Cat]

Not a single word of truth in your post, but there rarely is. With the dissolution of the USSR, Russia and Ukraine had the same legal claim to sovereignty and Russia recognized Ukraine's borders in 1991 and in 1994, with no stipulations about ethnic Russians in Ukraine or Russian bases in Crimea or neutrality and pledged to never violate Ukraine's borders.

The neutral status, as well as equal rights for all Ukrainian citizens was written in the pre-Maidan version of Ukrainian Constitution.
And it was said much more that once that Ukrainian and Georgian membership in NATO is unacceptable for the Russian Federation.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The neutral status, as well as equal rights for all Ukrainian citizens was written in the pre-Maidan version of Ukrainian Constitution.
And it was said much more that once that Ukrainian and Georgian membership in NATO is unacceptable for the Russian Federation.

That is a strong statement in support of Russian imperialism.

 

[Silver Cat]

What are the advantages of belonging to a dictatorship, where the oligarchs have all the wealth, and everyone else is poor?

The Russians like it. They don't think that they are poor.

The Russians are insane to prefer a nuclear war to leaving the Ukrainians alone.

They are OK with leaving the Ukrainians alone. They are not OK with the Ukrainins who are not OK with leaving the Russians (from South-Eastern regions of former Ukraine) alone. Even more they are not OK with allowing NATO use Ukrainian territory to attack the Russians. And the price of winning the nuclear war is definitely lower than the price of losing the conventional conflict.

The Russians should have learned from what happened to the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union that it is not a good idea to occupy nations that desire independence.

Really? If so, why Kievan regime wants to occupy Donbass and Crimea?

Even if Russia "wins" this war Russia would be better off if the war never happened.

May be. But the Russians believe that it was not them, who started this sad war. They can't make this war unhappened. They can only win or lose it. And they definitely prefer win it, because there are at least twenty million Russian lives on stake. Possibly - much more.

 

[Silver Cat]

That is a strong statement in support of Russian imperialism.

It's s strong statement in support of human rights and peaceful coexistence between Russia and the USA.

 

[Silver Cat]

We have nukes too. If you bomb Washington, DC and New Your City, we will turn Russia into a nuclear waste dump.

No. Their first targets will be ICBMs, bomber and nuclear submarine bases. The first counter-force strike. And when the USA had only few Ohio's left they suggest the peace on their terms. Like -
1) give up Alaska and California and we are not going to destroy New York and Washington. Or
2) try to launch the retaliation strike against our cities and we are going to destroy five your cities in exchange for one our.
3) continue the war without missiles launched - and we find and eliminate the rest of your submarines.

And why? Because Putin tried to conquer a country full of people who hate Russia. The Warsaw Pact was full of people who hated Russia. That is why they joined NATO as soon as they had to opportunity.

They don't like people who hate them. They are going to kill them all. It's pretty understandable position. And I don't think that defending people who hate other people (especially the Russians) would make the world better. NATO is not about hatred.

Russia is a prison of countries. If the Russian federation collapses the way the Soviet Union did, those countries will shout for freedom.

May be. That's why the Russians don't want collapse of Russia and ready to accept significant risks or terrible loses to prevent it.

 

[eagle1462010]

No. Their first targets will be ICBMs, bomber and nuclear submarine bases. The first counter-force strike. And when the USA had only few Ohio's left they suggest the peace on their terms. Like -
1) give up Alaska and California and we are not going to destroy New York and Washington. Or
2) try to launch the retaliation strike against our cities and we are going to destroy five your cities in exchange for one our.
3) continue the war without missiles launched - and we find and eliminate the rest of your submarines.




They don't like people who hate them. They are going to kill them all. It's pretty understandable position. And I don't think that defending people who hate other people (especially the Russians) would make the world better. NATO is not about hatred.


May be. That's why the Russians don't want collapse of Russia and ready to accept significant risks or terrible loses to prevent it.

MAD

 

[Silver Cat]

MAD

No MAD. Conterforce strike and coerction to peace by post-attack blackmailing.

 

[eagle1462010]

No MAD. Conterforce strike and coerction to peace by post-attack blackmailing.

The world will die.

 

[Silver Cat]

The world will die.

No. Millions will die, but the world will survive even in the worst scenario. But death of "millions" is acceptable price to defend "dozens of millions". At least for the Russians.
As they say about WWII (in which they had lost more than forty millions) "we can repeat if necessary".

 

[eagle1462010]

No. Millions will die, but the world will survive even in the worst scenario. But death of "millions" is acceptable price to defend "dozens of millions".

Full launch and the radioactive storms. You would wish you were dead.

 

[Silver Cat]

Full launch and the radioactive storms. You would wish you were dead.

No "full launch" if all your ICBMs and bomber bases are already destroyed.

No "radioactive storms" even in the worst scenario.

 

[eagle1462010]

No "full launch" if all your ICBMs and bomber bases are already destroyed.

No "radioactive storms" even in the worst scenario.
View attachment 838779

One sub with Mervs can take out Russia. You are nutz

 

[Silver Cat]

One sub with Mervs can take out Russia. You are nutz

One Ohio class submarine is, say, 54 W76-2 100 kt warheads. It's not enough even to overwhelm ABD of Moscow region (which can intercept, say, two hundred incoming warheads). And if the Russians are ready (and in the Pearl Harbor scenario they are ready by definition), even 5 Ohios hardly can kill more than one million of the Russian civilians. And it is acceptable price for the protection of more than twenty millions of Russians in Crimea and Novorussia.

 

[Silver Cat]

Donbas was and is part of Ukraine. You might as well say that the US invaded Arkansas in 1957 to end segregation.

As well as America was a part of British Empire. And, of course, our proclamation of Independence was pretty illegal from the British point of view. But we believe that it's not only legal, but it's our moral duty to fight oppressive and discriminative government.

 

[Hector12]

One Ohio class submarine is, say, 54 W76-2 100 kt warheads. It's not enough even to overwhelm ABD of Moscow region (which can intercept, say, two hundred incoming warheads). And if the Russians are ready (and in the Pearl Harbor scenario they are ready by definition), even 5 Ohios hardly can kill more than one million of the Russian civilians. And it is acceptable price for the protection of more than twenty millions of Russians in Crimea and Novorussia.

The collapse of the Russian ruble has led to a significant decrease in its value, allowing those with dollars to have significant purchasing power in Russia.​

The Russian Ruble Collapse: 1$ Purchasing Power in Russia.

The Russians are paying for Putin's foolish mistake to invade Ukraine.