Romney faces scrutiny over Vietnam

I really don't blame anyone for having their rich daddy pull the strings to avoid conscription but to actually approve of a war that he had no intention of ever fighting is the very definition of elitism.

yes, 16 year olds should be held to a very high standard.

fuckwit
 
The OP states clearly that Obama was a child at the time of Vietnam.

But did you vote for Bill Clinton? Inquiring minds want to know. (This question is, of course, rhetorical. We all know you voted for Clinton)
Yes, but Clinton didn't demonstrate in favor of Vietnam and the draft, like Romney did.

You're right. Instead of showing support and love for his country like Romney did, he ran away and tried to undermine his nation overseas.

And you still supported him
 
But did you vote for Bill Clinton? Inquiring minds want to know. (This question is, of course, rhetorical. We all know you voted for Clinton)
Yes, but Clinton didn't demonstrate in favor of Vietnam and the draft, like Romney did.

You're right. Instead of showing support and love for his country like Romney did, he ran away and tried to undermine his nation overseas.

And you still supported him

Romney showed his love of country by supporting getting other kids to fight in a war he didn't want to go to.

Then he went to France.
 
how does Bill Clinton figure into anything I was saying?

What does an almost certain bogus mission for a church have to do with the high probability that we have a true chicken hawk on our hands? Everything.

Certain bogus mission? Bogus in what way exactly? Are you suggesting he didnt spend 3 years teaching the Gospel in France?

Yes, most emphatically, teaching Mormonism in irreligious, comfortably liberal France must have left him just loads of free time, if he had went to a third world shit-hole to hand out bibles to people who had never read a bible, this would not seem so spurious.
 
Yes, but Clinton didn't demonstrate in favor of Vietnam and the draft, like Romney did.

Romney demonstrated in favor of the Vietnam war?

Yep.

Oh wait..I'm on ignore..

Like the rest of fucking reality for you.

Mitt Romney, 19, demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft | Mail Online
Sign of the Times – A Photo Shows Romney Backing Vietnam Draft - ABC News

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvv2T4jttXA]Mitt Romney - Fortunate Son Protested Against the Anti-War Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting because the pictures show a group of students supporting President Sterling and who opposed anarchist taking over the school and distrubing their studies. I dont see a single sign there protesting for the draft.
 
Blame Clinton when he doesn't go, excuse Romney when he doesn't go. I fault Romney for using his dad to get out of going. When I was still on active duty around 2004, my son wanted to join the Marines. I told him I would break his leg before I let him go waste his life fighting for worthless wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. I only knew one guy who's kid joined the military during that time and he was pissed about it.
 
That's right, dumbass- war bad, but kill terrorists.....

Chickenhawk Pubs like sending in the army and being the commander! That's how we got a million AlQaeda. MORONS.
 
Romney demonstrated in favor of the Vietnam war?

Yep.

Oh wait..I'm on ignore..

Like the rest of fucking reality for you.

Mitt Romney, 19, demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft | Mail Online
Sign of the Times – A Photo Shows Romney Backing Vietnam Draft - ABC News

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvv2T4jttXA]Mitt Romney - Fortunate Son Protested Against the Anti-War Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting because the pictures show a group of students supporting President Sterling and who opposed anarchist taking over the school and distrubing their studies. I dont see a single sign there protesting for the draft.

There are 2 articles included with the post.
 
I can assure you that having a rich daddy has nothing to do with serving a mission for the Church.

You have got to be kidding.

BTW, I really hope the Romney campaign tries to equate "serving" his church with serving his country in a combat zone.

It will be hilarious.

Who is trying to equate the two? And no im not kidding. Money has nothing to do with it.

I work in Mesa, Arizona. Mormon capital of Arizona. I work with a lot of Mormons and we talk about the missions. They say influence, money and power in the church can influence your mission assignment. This is from guys who did missions and guys who didn't. Why do they disagree with you?
 
Yes, but Clinton didn't demonstrate in favor of Vietnam and the draft, like Romney did.

Romney demonstrated in favor of the Vietnam war?

Yep.

Oh wait..I'm on ignore..

Like the rest of fucking reality for you.

Mitt Romney, 19, demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft | Mail Online
Sign of the Times – A Photo Shows Romney Backing Vietnam Draft - ABC News

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvv2T4jttXA]Mitt Romney - Fortunate Son Protested Against the Anti-War Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

Did you bother to read your own links? According to the article you linked there is NOTHING that says Romney was supporting the Vietnam war. You are being purposely dishonest. Have a little freaking pride in yourself and quit stooping to rdean and TM's level. ( On edit. I should have mentioned that your links were disingenuous as well. )

"The spring of 1966 saw the university’s first sitin. A few dozen students occupied the President’s
Office in Building 10, protesting the fact that Stanford
was administering standardized Selective Service
examinations through which students could qualify
for continued exemption from the draft. The Stanford
Committee for Peace in Vietnam (SCPV) objected
that the exams signified cooperation with the war
effort and aided privileged university students. Other
Stanford students marched in the Quad to protest
the protest and outnumbered the sitters-in"

http://histsoc.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST35no1.pdf
 
Last edited:
SAN DIEGO — On a stage crowded with war heroes, Mitt Romney recently praised the sacrifice "of the great men and women of every generation who serve in our armed services."
It is a sacrifice the Republican presidential candidate did not make. Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.
President Barack Obama did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict.
Because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his lack of military background is facing scrutiny as he courts veterans.
Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear. He said in 2007, his first White House bid under way, that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Read more: Romney faces scrutiny over Vietnam - Times Union

Did you vote for Bill Clinton?

And he highlighted the wrong sentence, so I fixed it for him.

A scared kid didn't want his face shot off. Can't blame him.

Never clearly understood Clinton's place in the 'lottery' to flat-out call him a "draft dodger"

After he sought four deferments, right? Exactly.
 
Romney demonstrated in favor of the Vietnam war?

Yep.

Oh wait..I'm on ignore..

Like the rest of fucking reality for you.

Mitt Romney, 19, demonstrated in favour of Vietnam War draft | Mail Online
Sign of the Times – A Photo Shows Romney Backing Vietnam Draft - ABC News

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvv2T4jttXA]Mitt Romney - Fortunate Son Protested Against the Anti-War Protesters - YouTube[/ame]

Did you bother to read your own links? According to the article you linked there is NOTHING that says Romney was supporting the Vietnam war. You are being purposely dishonest. Have a little freaking pride in yourself and quit stooping to rdean and TM's level.

"The spring of 1966 saw the university’s first sitin. A few dozen students occupied the President’s
Office in Building 10, protesting the fact that Stanford
was administering standardized Selective Service
examinations through which students could qualify
for continued exemption from the draft. The Stanford
Committee for Peace in Vietnam (SCPV) objected
that the exams signified cooperation with the war
effort and aided privileged university students. Other
Stanford students marched in the Quad to protest
the protest and outnumbered the sitters-in"

http://histsoc.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST35no1.pdf

I read them fine.

And Romney's a fucking liar..

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.
As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.
"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.
After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.
He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.
But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.
Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.
"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.
His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.
Romney's past may not be enough to hurt his popularity in this year's election among veterans, who typically lean Republican.
A Gallup survey released last week found that veterans prefer Romney over Obama by 58 percent to 34 percent. That voting bloc, consisting mostly of older men, makes up 13 percent of the adult population. Obama won the presidency four years ago while losing veterans by 10 points to Sen. John McCain, a former Navy pilot.

Still, some veterans say Romney's reluctance to serve irks them.
"I volunteered for the draft. Romney could have, too. Simple as that," said Wade Lieseke, of Nevada, who served as a helicopter gunner in Vietnam from 1969 to 1970.

Daily Chronicle | BC-US--Romney-Vietnam,1st Ld-Writethru
 
SAN DIEGO — On a stage crowded with war heroes, Mitt Romney recently praised the sacrifice "of the great men and women of every generation who serve in our armed services."
It is a sacrifice the Republican presidential candidate did not make. Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.
President Barack Obama did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict.
Because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his lack of military background is facing scrutiny as he courts veterans.
Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear. He said in 2007, his first White House bid under way, that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Read more: Romney faces scrutiny over Vietnam - Times Union

I didnt care about Clintons draft dodging. Im not going to care about Romneys.

I do however care that the Right, who blasted Clinton for it, gave us Bush jr ( the ULTIMATE dodger ) and now Romney and are saying its a non issue.
 

Did you bother to read your own links? According to the article you linked there is NOTHING that says Romney was supporting the Vietnam war. You are being purposely dishonest. Have a little freaking pride in yourself and quit stooping to rdean and TM's level.

"The spring of 1966 saw the university’s first sitin. A few dozen students occupied the President’s
Office in Building 10, protesting the fact that Stanford
was administering standardized Selective Service
examinations through which students could qualify
for continued exemption from the draft. The Stanford
Committee for Peace in Vietnam (SCPV) objected
that the exams signified cooperation with the war
effort and aided privileged university students. Other
Stanford students marched in the Quad to protest
the protest and outnumbered the sitters-in"

http://histsoc.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST35no1.pdf

I read them fine.

And Romney's a fucking liar..

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.
As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.
"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.
After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.
He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.
But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.
Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.
"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.
His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.
Romney's past may not be enough to hurt his popularity in this year's election among veterans, who typically lean Republican.
A Gallup survey released last week found that veterans prefer Romney over Obama by 58 percent to 34 percent. That voting bloc, consisting mostly of older men, makes up 13 percent of the adult population. Obama won the presidency four years ago while losing veterans by 10 points to Sen. John McCain, a former Navy pilot.

Still, some veterans say Romney's reluctance to serve irks them.
"I volunteered for the draft. Romney could have, too. Simple as that," said Wade Lieseke, of Nevada, who served as a helicopter gunner in Vietnam from 1969 to 1970.

Daily Chronicle | BC-US--Romney-Vietnam,1st Ld-Writethru

If you indeed read your links and then still posted that Romney protested in favor of the Vietnam war, then your reading comprehension needs work or your morality is challenged.
 
Blame Clinton when he doesn't go, excuse Romney when he doesn't go. I fault Romney for using his dad to get out of going. When I was still on active duty around 2004, my son wanted to join the Marines. I told him I would break his leg before I let him go waste his life fighting for worthless wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. I only knew one guy who's kid joined the military during that time and he was pissed about it.

Why is it you can't comprehend when we are talking about your double standard?
 
Did you bother to read your own links? According to the article you linked there is NOTHING that says Romney was supporting the Vietnam war. You are being purposely dishonest. Have a little freaking pride in yourself and quit stooping to rdean and TM's level.

"The spring of 1966 saw the university’s first sitin. A few dozen students occupied the President’s
Office in Building 10, protesting the fact that Stanford
was administering standardized Selective Service
examinations through which students could qualify
for continued exemption from the draft. The Stanford
Committee for Peace in Vietnam (SCPV) objected
that the exams signified cooperation with the war
effort and aided privileged university students. Other
Stanford students marched in the Quad to protest
the protest and outnumbered the sitters-in"

http://histsoc.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST35no1.pdf

I read them fine.

And Romney's a fucking liar..

"I was supportive of my country," Romney said. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Indeed, Romney strongly supported the war at first. As a freshman at Stanford University, he protested anti-war activists. In one photo, he's shown in a small crowd of students, smiling broadly, wearing a sport jacket and holding up a sign that says, "Speak Out, Don't Sit In."

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, "I was not planning on signing up for the military."

"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft," Romney told the newspaper.

But that's exactly what Romney did, according Selective Service records. He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.
As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.
"Vietnam was a war that the poor and the people who couldn't afford to go to college had to go to," Soltz said.
After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.
He was granted the deferment even as some young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status, which became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s. The Mormon church, a strong supporter of American involvement in Vietnam, ultimately limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption.
But as fighting in Vietnam raged, Romney spent two and a half years trying to win Mormon converts in France. About that same time, Romney's father would famously speak out against Vietnam, declaring that he had been "brainwashed" by military officials into supporting the conflict.
Young Romney's comments indicated his support had waned, too.
"If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is," a 23-year-old Romney would tell The Boston Globe in 1970 during the fifth year of his deferment.
His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number – 300 out of 365 – was not called.
Romney's past may not be enough to hurt his popularity in this year's election among veterans, who typically lean Republican.
A Gallup survey released last week found that veterans prefer Romney over Obama by 58 percent to 34 percent. That voting bloc, consisting mostly of older men, makes up 13 percent of the adult population. Obama won the presidency four years ago while losing veterans by 10 points to Sen. John McCain, a former Navy pilot.

Still, some veterans say Romney's reluctance to serve irks them.
"I volunteered for the draft. Romney could have, too. Simple as that," said Wade Lieseke, of Nevada, who served as a helicopter gunner in Vietnam from 1969 to 1970.

Daily Chronicle | BC-US--Romney-Vietnam,1st Ld-Writethru

If you indeed read your links and then still posted that Romney protested in favor of the Vietnam war, then your reading comprehension needs work or your morality is challenged.

He was protesting in favor of a practice that identified kids to send to Vietnam and against those who were not in favor of that.

Overall he was in favor of the war and has said so.

So maybe you should think about the phrase "Physician, heal thyself."

Or put the rose colored glasses back on ..and take a nap.
 
You have got to be kidding.

BTW, I really hope the Romney campaign tries to equate "serving" his church with serving his country in a combat zone.

It will be hilarious.

Who is trying to equate the two? And no im not kidding. Money has nothing to do with it.

I work in Mesa, Arizona. Mormon capital of Arizona. I work with a lot of Mormons and we talk about the missions. They say influence, money and power in the church can influence your mission assignment. This is from guys who did missions and guys who didn't. Why do they disagree with you?

I dont know who is telling you what, but that's absolute nonsense.

And Im quite confident your making it up anyway.:)
 
SAN DIEGO — On a stage crowded with war heroes, Mitt Romney recently praised the sacrifice "of the great men and women of every generation who serve in our armed services."
It is a sacrifice the Republican presidential candidate did not make. Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.
President Barack Obama did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict.
Because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his lack of military background is facing scrutiny as he courts veterans.
Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear. He said in 2007, his first White House bid under way, that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Read more: Romney faces scrutiny over Vietnam - Times Union

I didnt care about Clintons draft dodging. Im not going to care about Romneys.

I do however care that the Right, who blasted Clinton for it, gave us Bush jr ( the ULTIMATE dodger ) and now Romney and are saying its a non issue.

Except, Clinton was the only one who actually dodged the draft.

Bush served in the Nation Guard. I know you on the left want to pretend that the National Guard isnt part of the military. But it is. You can't dodge the draft while serving in a branch in the Military.

Romney was never drafted. How could he have dodged it?
 
SAN DIEGO — On a stage crowded with war heroes, Mitt Romney recently praised the sacrifice "of the great men and women of every generation who serve in our armed services."
It is a sacrifice the Republican presidential candidate did not make. Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called.
President Barack Obama did not serve in the military either. The Democrat, 50, was a child during the Vietnam conflict.
Because Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his lack of military background is facing scrutiny as he courts veterans.
Romney's recollection of his Vietnam-era decisions has evolved in the decades since, particularly as his presidential ambitions became clear. He said in 2007, his first White House bid under way, that he had "longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam." But his actions, Selective Service records and previous statements show little interest in joining a conflict that claimed more than 58,000 American lives.

Read more: Romney faces scrutiny over Vietnam - Times Union

I didnt care about Clintons draft dodging. Im not going to care about Romneys.

I do however care that the Right, who blasted Clinton for it, gave us Bush jr ( the ULTIMATE dodger ) and now Romney and are saying its a non issue.

Except, Clinton was the only one who actually dodged the draft.

Bush served in the Nation Guard. I know you on the left want to pretend that the National Guard isnt part of the military. But it is. You can't dodge the draft while serving in a branch in the Military.

Romney was never drafted. How could he have dodged it?

Because he applied for and received draft deferments, according to the Selective Service.
 

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