Right wingers don’t appreciate competitive open markets

[Bfgrn]

Sorry bfgrn, can't say as I totally understand what your saying here. The CATO Institute website has a Briefing Paper about Herbert Hoover, the following is from the execuive summary:


Politicians and pundits portray Herbert Hoover as a defender of laissez faire governance whose dogmatic commitment to small government led him to stand by and do nothing while the economy collapsed in the wake of the stock market crash in 1929. In fact, Hoover had long been a critic of laissez faire. As president, he doubled federal spending in real terms in four years. He also used government to prop up wages, restricted immigration, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff, raised taxes, and created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation—all interventionist measures and not laissez faire. Unlike many Democrats today, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's advisers knew that Hoover had started the New Deal. One of them wrote, "When we all burst into Washington ... we found every essential idea [of the New Deal] enacted in the 100-day Congress in the Hoover administration itself."

Hoover's big-spending, interventionist policies prolonged the Great Depression, and similar policies today could do similar damage. Dismantling the mythical presentation of Hoover as a "do-nothing" president is crucial if we wish to have a proper understanding of what did and did not work in the Great Depression so that we do not repeat Hoover's mistakes today.


Herbert Hoover: Father of the New Deal | Steven Horwitz | Cato Institute: Briefing Paper

Well, here is your problem, and Steven Horwitz' problem...HERBERT HOOVER in his own words:

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.

 

[Wiseacre]

Sorry bfgrn, can't say as I totally understand what your saying here. The CATO Institute website has a Briefing Paper about Herbert Hoover, the following is from the execuive summary:


Politicians and pundits portray Herbert Hoover as a defender of laissez faire governance whose dogmatic commitment to small government led him to stand by and do nothing while the economy collapsed in the wake of the stock market crash in 1929. In fact, Hoover had long been a critic of laissez faire. As president, he doubled federal spending in real terms in four years. He also used government to prop up wages, restricted immigration, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff, raised taxes, and created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation—all interventionist measures and not laissez faire. Unlike many Democrats today, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's advisers knew that Hoover had started the New Deal. One of them wrote, "When we all burst into Washington ... we found every essential idea [of the New Deal] enacted in the 100-day Congress in the Hoover administration itself."

Hoover's big-spending, interventionist policies prolonged the Great Depression, and similar policies today could do similar damage. Dismantling the mythical presentation of Hoover as a "do-nothing" president is crucial if we wish to have a proper understanding of what did and did not work in the Great Depression so that we do not repeat Hoover's mistakes today.


Herbert Hoover: Father of the New Deal | Steven Horwitz | Cato Institute: Briefing Paper

Well, here is your problem, and Steven Horwitz' problem...HERBERT HOOVER in his own words:

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.

Here is YOUR problem, Hoover didn't take the advice. Mellon wanted to cut taxes and spending, instead Hoover increased both and in so doing prolonged and worsened he depression. He was not a do-nothing president, he did the wrong things.

 

[Bfgrn]

Sorry bfgrn, can't say as I totally understand what your saying here. The CATO Institute website has a Briefing Paper about Herbert Hoover, the following is from the execuive summary:


Politicians and pundits portray Herbert Hoover as a defender of laissez faire governance whose dogmatic commitment to small government led him to stand by and do nothing while the economy collapsed in the wake of the stock market crash in 1929. In fact, Hoover had long been a critic of laissez faire. As president, he doubled federal spending in real terms in four years. He also used government to prop up wages, restricted immigration, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff, raised taxes, and created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation—all interventionist measures and not laissez faire. Unlike many Democrats today, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's advisers knew that Hoover had started the New Deal. One of them wrote, "When we all burst into Washington ... we found every essential idea [of the New Deal] enacted in the 100-day Congress in the Hoover administration itself."

Hoover's big-spending, interventionist policies prolonged the Great Depression, and similar policies today could do similar damage. Dismantling the mythical presentation of Hoover as a "do-nothing" president is crucial if we wish to have a proper understanding of what did and did not work in the Great Depression so that we do not repeat Hoover's mistakes today.


Herbert Hoover: Father of the New Deal | Steven Horwitz | Cato Institute: Briefing Paper

Well, here is your problem, and Steven Horwitz' problem...HERBERT HOOVER in his own words:

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.

Here is YOUR problem, Hoover didn't take the advice. Mellon wanted to cut taxes and spending, instead Hoover increased both and in so doing prolonged and worsened he depression. He was not a do-nothing president, he did the wrong things.

Well, then you and Steve have another problem, if Hoover did the wrong thing, FDR did MUCH MORE of the wrong thing...

HERE is how it worked out:

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, here is your problem, and Steven Horwitz' problem...HERBERT HOOVER in his own words:

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.

Here is YOUR problem, Hoover didn't take the advice. Mellon wanted to cut taxes and spending, instead Hoover increased both and in so doing prolonged and worsened he depression. He was not a do-nothing president, he did the wrong things.

Well, then you and Steve have another problem, if Hoover did the wrong thing, FDR did MUCH MORE of the wrong thing...

HERE is how it worked out:

FDR sure as hell DID do the wrong things, that's why the depression lasted as long as it did. Your chart doesn't explain what the GDP number is a percentage of, what?

Are you seriously suggesting that the depression was over when FDR took office? That's the implication of the chrt, and you didn't explain anything.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There is a show I like to watch starring Joan Rivers. She goes around and asks rich people where their money came from. More often than not, the person interviewed figured out something to sell. One invented a new grill.

So you figure that there were people camped outside this guy's house demanding a new grill?

You see dork, it was the SUPPLY of the new grill that spawned the demand for it. Supply always precedes demand,

One guy made "joke teeth". They started with "bank loans", ideas and sometimes family members pitching in. This Republican idea that everything comes from "rich" people is delusional. You have to "sell something". No one "makes jobs". It's not a charity. There has to be a "demand".

You see, Republicans "skip over" the part about "making something to sell". Listen to them, they don't understand "supply and demand". They hear "tax" and "investment", but do they know what "investment" means? If they did, they would want to "invest" in America's infrastructure.

Many times, lack of imagination reflects a "lack of education" and vice versa.

You know nothing of economics nor markets - which is why you're a leftist.

 

[Uncensored2008]

rdean gets his economic education from Joan Rivers "Man on the Street" interviews. This explains why he doesn't ever know what he's talking about.

Do you get yer' education about the Constitution from Jay Lenos "Man on the Street" interviews deenie?

The sad thing is that even Joan Rivers proves him wrong and abysmally ignorant.

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is YOUR problem, Hoover didn't take the advice. Mellon wanted to cut taxes and spending, instead Hoover increased both and in so doing prolonged and worsened he depression. He was not a do-nothing president, he did the wrong things.

Well, then you and Steve have another problem, if Hoover did the wrong thing, FDR did MUCH MORE of the wrong thing...

HERE is how it worked out:

FDR sure as hell DID do the wrong things, that's why the depression lasted as long as it did. Your chart doesn't explain what the GDP number is a percentage of, what?

Are you seriously suggesting that the depression was over when FDR took office? That's the implication of the chrt, and you didn't explain anything.

Gross Domestic Product - GDP

What Does Gross Domestic Product - GDP Mean?

The monetary value of all the finished goods and services produced within a country's borders in a specific time period, though GDP is usually calculated on an annual basis. It includes all of private and public consumption, government outlays, investments and exports less imports that occur within a defined territory.

GDP = C + G + I + NX

where:

"C" is equal to all private consumption, or consumer spending, in a nation's economy
"G" is the sum of government spending
"I" is the sum of all the country's businesses spending on capital
"NX" is the nation's total net exports, calculated as total exports minus total imports. (NX = Exports - Imports)

Read more: Gross Domestic Product (GDP) Definition

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you READ the chart, it starts in 1929, the year of the crash, and ends in 1941, the year before we entered WWII.

Here's some more info that destroys your ideology driven lies.

FDR and the New Deal created the LARGEST annual increase in GDP in American history.

Gross Domestic Product (GDP)

Percent change from preceding period

GDP percent change based on current dollars


1930 -12.0
1931 -16.1
1932 -23.2
1933 -3.9 <-----FDR takes office. BUT, it is still Hoover's budget
1934 17.0 <-----FDR's FIRST budget year.
1935 11.1
1936 14.3
1937 9.7
1938 -6.3
1939 7.0
1940 10.0
1941 25.0
1942 27.7
1943 22.7
1944 10.7
1945 1.5 <-----FDR dies.

FDR had his own right wing regressives to contend with, HERE is where that led.

The Recession of 1937–1938 was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States. Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn, but agree that government austerity reversed the recovery. wiki

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the LARGEST increase in GDP in American history.

 

[Wiseacre]

FDR spent out the gazoo, which your own post shows is part of the calculation for GDP. The official numbers say the depression was over, but it sure as hell wasn't in reality.

My ideologically driven lies? That's the way you want to respond to a different pov from your own? Well, i guess the adult portion of this discussion is over. Have a nice day.

 

[Bfgrn]

FDR spent out the gazoo, which your own post shows is part of the calculation for GDP. The official numbers say the depression was over, but it sure as hell wasn't in reality.

My ideologically driven lies? That's the way you want to respond to a different pov from your own? Well, i guess the adult portion of this discussion is over. Have a nice day.

A different point of view FROM FACTS? What would you call it Wiseacre? It can only be some form of ideology that would prevent a person from accepting the TRUTH.

 

[expat_panama]

...The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the LARGEST increase in GDP in American history...

Some people really don't think everything that goes on with the economy is caused by the president. If if we do (as with your statement about FDR) then we'd also have to say--

...The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATES in American history... ​

 

[Uncensored2008]

Gross Domestic Product - GDP

What Does Gross Domestic Product - GDP Mean?

The monetary value of all the finished goods and services produced within a country's borders in a specific time period, though GDP is usually calculated on an annual basis. It includes all of private and public consumption, government outlays, investments and exports less imports that occur within a defined territory.

GDP = C + G + I + NX

where:

"C" is equal to all private consumption, or consumer spending, in a nation's economy
"G" is the sum of government spending
"I" is the sum of all the country's businesses spending on capital
"NX" is the nation's total net exports, calculated as total exports minus total imports. (NX = Exports - Imports)

Read more: Gross Domestic Product (GDP) Definition

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you READ the chart, it starts in 1929, the year of the crash, and ends in 1941, the year before we entered WWII.

Here's some more info that destroys your ideology driven lies.

FDR and the New Deal created the LARGEST annual increase in GDP in American history.

Gross Domestic Product (GDP)

Percent change from preceding period

GDP percent change based on current dollars


1930 -12.0
1931 -16.1
1932 -23.2
1933 -3.9 <-----FDR takes office. BUT, it is still Hoover's budget
1934 17.0 <-----FDR's FIRST budget year.
1935 11.1
1936 14.3
1937 9.7
1938 -6.3
1939 7.0
1940 10.0
1941 25.0
1942 27.7
1943 22.7
1944 10.7
1945 1.5 <-----FDR dies.

FDR had his own right wing regressives to contend with, HERE is where that led.

The Recession of 1937–1938 was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States. Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn, but agree that government austerity reversed the recovery. wiki

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the LARGEST increase in GDP in American history.

How's that look if you don't include government spending?

What if only private wages and consumer spending are measured?

I mean, if the federal reserve printed $800 trillion in greenbacks and put them in the economy, that would be the largest increase in GDP in history, no question.

But would it indicate a booming economy?

 

[Bfgrn]

...The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the LARGEST increase in GDP in American history...

Some people really don't think everything that goes on with the economy is caused by the president. If if we do (as with your statement about FDR) then we'd also have to say--

...The Franklin D. Roosevelt administration created the HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATES in American history... ​

The greatest yearly increase in GDP occurred during the New Deal, AND, the LARGEST DROP IN UNEPLOYMENT in America history occurred during the New Deal...


Census document HS-29 (available in PDF). Quoting directly from Census data, here are the unemployment rates and total number of official unemployed at the beginning and end of the presidential terms since the Great Depression:

ROOSEVELT PRE-WWII NEW DEAL
1932 Unemployment Rate: 23.6% (12.8 million total unemployed)
1940 Unemployment Rate: 14.6% (8.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -9.0
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.7%

ROOSEVELT WWII
1941 Unemployment Rate: 9.9% (5.5 million total unemployed)
1944 Unemployment Rate: 1.2% (670,000 total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -8.7
Total unemployment percentage change: -87.9%

TRUMAN
1945 Unemployment Rate: 1.9% (1.0 million total unemployed)
1952 Unemployment Rate: 3.0% (1.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +1.1
Total unemployment percentage change: +81.0%

EISENHOWER
1953 Unemployment Rate: 2.9% (1.8 million total unemployed)
1960 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (3.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: +110.03%

KENNEDY
1961 Unemployment Rate: 6.7% (4.7 million total unemployed)
1963 Unemployment Rate: 5.7% (4.0 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.0%
Total unemployment percentage change: -13.6%

JOHNSON
1964 Unemployment Rate: 5.2% (3.7 million total unemployed)
1968 Unemployment Rate: 3.6% (2.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: -25.6%

NIXON
1969 Unemployment Rate: 3.5% (2.8 million total unemployed)
1974 Unemployment Rate: 5.6% (5.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: +82.0%

FORD
1975 Unemployment Rate: 8.5% (7.9 million total unemployed)
1976 Unemployment Rate: 7.7% (7.4 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -0.8%
Total unemployment percentage change: -6.6%

CARTER
1977 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (6.9 million total unemployed)
1980 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (7.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: 0.0
Total unemployment percentage change: +9.24%

REAGAN
1981 Unemployment Rate: 7.6% (8.2 million total unemployed)
1988 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (6.7 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: -19.0%

BUSH I
1989 Unemployment Rate: 5.3% (6.5 million total unemployed)
1992 Unemployment Rate: 7.5% (9.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.2
Total unemployment percentage change: +47.2%

CLINTON
1993 Unemployment Rate: 6.9% (8.9 million total unemployed)
2000 Unemployment Rate: 4.0% (5.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change -2.9
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.3%

As you can see, in terms of the unemployment rate - that is, the percentage of the total workforce not working - the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the single largest drop in American history. Yes, I'll say that again for conservatives, just to make sure they get it: The PRE-WWII New Deal era from 1933-1940 - not the WWII era - saw the largest drop in the unemployment rate in American history. And by the way, that even includes the recession of 1937-1938.

Now, it is certainly true that the percentage drop of total unemployed was bigger in WWII than it was in the pre-WWII New Deal era. But as the data show, even by that metric, the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the second largest percentage drop in total unemployed in the 20th century, going from 12.8 million unemployed in Roosevelt's first year in office to 8.1 million unemployed at the end of his second term in 1940. That's a 36.7 percent drop - larger than the Clinton era (36.3%) and, yes conservatives, larger than the Reagan era (a mere 19%). At the absolute minimum, that would suggests the New Deal was a positive - not negative - economic force (and empirically more positive than, say, Reagan's free-market agenda).

These are the hard and fast numbers conservatives would like us all to forget with their claim that history proves massive spending packages like the New Deal will supposedly harm our economy.

The Forgotten Math: Pre-WWII New Deal Saw Biggest Drop In Unemployment Rate in American History

 

[Wiseacre]

FDR spent out the gazoo, which your own post shows is part of the calculation for GDP. The official numbers say the depression was over, but it sure as hell wasn't in reality.

My ideologically driven lies? That's the way you want to respond to a different pov from your own? Well, i guess the adult portion of this discussion is over. Have a nice day.

A different point of view FROM FACTS? What would you call it Wiseacre? It can only be some form of ideology that would prevent a person from accepting the TRUTH.

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the ass. Seriously, you really think the depression was over in 1934?

 

[Bfgrn]

FDR spent out the gazoo, which your own post shows is part of the calculation for GDP. The official numbers say the depression was over, but it sure as hell wasn't in reality.

My ideologically driven lies? That's the way you want to respond to a different pov from your own? Well, i guess the adult portion of this discussion is over. Have a nice day.

A different point of view FROM FACTS? What would you call it Wiseacre? It can only be some form of ideology that would prevent a person from accepting the TRUTH.

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the ass. Seriously, you really think the depression was over in 1934?

When did I say the depression was over in 1934? The economy began to turn around drastically for the better under FDR in 1934.

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, here are some facts: real GDP did not recover to what it was in 1929 until 1941. You can talk about % increases until the cows come home, but it took 12 years and a world war to get us out of the depression, FDR didn't really help the situation at all. And there are many who think his policies exacerbated and extended it for longer than it should have been, just like Obama is doing today.

 

[Bfgrn]

Well, here are some facts: real GDP did not recover to what it was in 1929 until 1941. You can talk about % increases until the cows come home, but it took 12 years and a world war to get us out of the depression, FDR didn't really help the situation at all. And there are many who think his policies exacerbated and extended it for longer than it should have been, just like Obama is doing today.

FALSE. Real GDP set a new historical record high by 1936, and increased from there. By ANY form of measure, FDR and the New Deal was a HUGE success.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

[Uncensored2008]

FALSE. Real GDP set a new historical record high by 1936, and increased from there. By ANY form of measure, FDR and the New Deal was a HUGE success.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

You know that what you claim is false.

Annual Real GDP Growth Rates
Year 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937
%grw -8.6 -6.5 -13.1 -1.3 10.9 8.9 13.0 5.1


Year 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945
%grw -3.4 8.1 8.8 17.1 18.5 16.4 8.1 -1.1

 

[Bfgrn]

FALSE. Real GDP set a new historical record high by 1936, and increased from there. By ANY form of measure, FDR and the New Deal was a HUGE success.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

You know that what you claim is false.

Annual Real GDP Growth Rates
Year 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937
%grw -8.6 -6.5 -13.1 -1.3 10.9 8.9 13.0 5.1


Year 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945
%grw -3.4 8.1 8.8 17.1 18.5 16.4 8.1 -1.1

You are wrong. You are quoting annual change, incorrectly I might add. Where do you get your numbers BTW (link required)?

 

[Wiseacre]

Well, here are some facts: real GDP did not recover to what it was in 1929 until 1941. You can talk about % increases until the cows come home, but it took 12 years and a world war to get us out of the depression, FDR didn't really help the situation at all. And there are many who think his policies exacerbated and extended it for longer than it should have been, just like Obama is doing today.

FALSE. Real GDP set a new historical record high by 1936, and increased from there. By ANY form of measure, FDR and the New Deal was a HUGE success.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

False. Check out 1929, real GDP was 103.6 billion. That GDP was not exceeded until 1941, as I said. As for ANY form of measure, how about unemployment. You really want to claim that the New Deal was a HUGE success based on that? Aside from the GDP numbers, which was also anything but a HUGE success.

Year GDP US Billion
1929 103.6
1930 91.2
1931 76.5
1932 58.7
1933 56.4
1934 66
1935 73.3
1936 83.8
1937 91.9
1938 86.1
1939 92.2
1940 101.4
1941 126.7

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1920_2010USb_13s1li011mcn_F0f

 

[Bfgrn]

Well, here are some facts: real GDP did not recover to what it was in 1929 until 1941. You can talk about % increases until the cows come home, but it took 12 years and a world war to get us out of the depression, FDR didn't really help the situation at all. And there are many who think his policies exacerbated and extended it for longer than it should have been, just like Obama is doing today.

FALSE. Real GDP set a new historical record high by 1936, and increased from there. By ANY form of measure, FDR and the New Deal was a HUGE success.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

False. Check out 1929, real GDP was 103.6 billion. That GDP was not exceeded until 1941, as I said. As for ANY form of measure, how about unemployment. You really want to claim that the New Deal was a HUGE success based on that? Aside from the GDP numbers, which was also anything but a HUGE success.

Year GDP US Billion
1929 103.6
1930 91.2
1931 76.5
1932 58.7
1933 56.4
1934 66
1935 73.3
1936 83.8
1937 91.9
1938 86.1
1939 92.2
1940 101.4
1941 126.7

Government Spending Chart in United States 1920-2010 - Federal State Local

Here is a chart from your site.

Growth in GDP is what matters, and the U.S. GDP growth has historically averaged about 2.5-3% per year but with substantial deviations.

The GDP numbers are reported in two forms: current dollar and constant dollar. Current dollar GDP is calculated using today's dollars and makes comparisons between time periods difficult because of the effects of inflation. Constant dollar GDP solves this problem by converting the current information into some standard era dollar, such as 1997 (2005) dollars. This process factors out the effects of inflation and allows easy comparisons between periods.


Yes, FDR and the New Deal were a HUGE success.

Top Five Years for GDP Expansion:

1942, +18.5%
1941, +17.1%
1943, +16.4%
1936, +13.0%
1934, +10.9%

Top Five Years for GDP Contraction:

1932, -13.1%
1946, -10.9%
1930, -8.6%
1931, -6.5%
2009, -3.5%

I already addressed unemployment...maybe you missed it...

The greatest yearly increase in GDP occurred during the New Deal, AND, the LARGEST DROP IN UNEPLOYMENT in America history occurred during the New Deal...


Census document HS-29 (available in PDF). Quoting directly from Census data, here are the unemployment rates and total number of official unemployed at the beginning and end of the presidential terms since the Great Depression:

ROOSEVELT PRE-WWII NEW DEAL
1932 Unemployment Rate: 23.6% (12.8 million total unemployed)
1940 Unemployment Rate: 14.6% (8.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -9.0
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.7%

ROOSEVELT WWII
1941 Unemployment Rate: 9.9% (5.5 million total unemployed)
1944 Unemployment Rate: 1.2% (670,000 total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -8.7
Total unemployment percentage change: -87.9%

TRUMAN
1945 Unemployment Rate: 1.9% (1.0 million total unemployed)
1952 Unemployment Rate: 3.0% (1.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +1.1
Total unemployment percentage change: +81.0%

EISENHOWER
1953 Unemployment Rate: 2.9% (1.8 million total unemployed)
1960 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (3.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: +110.03%

KENNEDY
1961 Unemployment Rate: 6.7% (4.7 million total unemployed)
1963 Unemployment Rate: 5.7% (4.0 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.0%
Total unemployment percentage change: -13.6%

JOHNSON
1964 Unemployment Rate: 5.2% (3.7 million total unemployed)
1968 Unemployment Rate: 3.6% (2.8 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -1.6%
Total unemployment percentage change: -25.6%

NIXON
1969 Unemployment Rate: 3.5% (2.8 million total unemployed)
1974 Unemployment Rate: 5.6% (5.1 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: +82.0%

FORD
1975 Unemployment Rate: 8.5% (7.9 million total unemployed)
1976 Unemployment Rate: 7.7% (7.4 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -0.8%
Total unemployment percentage change: -6.6%

CARTER
1977 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (6.9 million total unemployed)
1980 Unemployment Rate: 7.1% (7.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: 0.0
Total unemployment percentage change: +9.24%

REAGAN
1981 Unemployment Rate: 7.6% (8.2 million total unemployed)
1988 Unemployment Rate: 5.5% (6.7 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: -2.1%
Total unemployment percentage change: -19.0%

BUSH I
1989 Unemployment Rate: 5.3% (6.5 million total unemployed)
1992 Unemployment Rate: 7.5% (9.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change: +2.2
Total unemployment percentage change: +47.2%

CLINTON
1993 Unemployment Rate: 6.9% (8.9 million total unemployed)
2000 Unemployment Rate: 4.0% (5.6 million total unemployed)
Unemployment Rate Change -2.9
Total unemployment percentage change: -36.3%

As you can see, in terms of the unemployment rate - that is, the percentage of the total workforce not working - the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the single largest drop in American history. Yes, I'll say that again for conservatives, just to make sure they get it: The PRE-WWII New Deal era from 1933-1940 - not the WWII era - saw the largest drop in the unemployment rate in American history. And by the way, that even includes the recession of 1937-1938.

Now, it is certainly true that the percentage drop of total unemployed was bigger in WWII than it was in the pre-WWII New Deal era. But as the data show, even by that metric, the pre-WWII New Deal era saw the second largest percentage drop in total unemployed in the 20th century, going from 12.8 million unemployed in Roosevelt's first year in office to 8.1 million unemployed at the end of his second term in 1940. That's a 36.7 percent drop - larger than the Clinton era (36.3%) and, yes conservatives, larger than the Reagan era (a mere 19%). At the absolute minimum, that would suggests the New Deal was a positive - not negative - economic force (and empirically more positive than, say, Reagan's free-market agenda).

These are the hard and fast numbers conservatives would like us all to forget with their claim that history proves massive spending packages like the New Deal will supposedly harm our economy.

The Forgotten Math: Pre-WWII New Deal Saw Biggest Drop In Unemployment Rate in American History

And you keep forgetting that your right wing austerity approach doesn't work. FDR found that out. FDR had his own right wing regressives to contend with, HERE is where that led.

The Recession of 1937–1938 was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery from the Great Depression in the United States. Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn, but agree that government austerity reversed the recovery. wiki