Reversing America's Decline

[Oldguy]

Specifically, where and how do y'all see America as "declining," other than the OP's suggestion that the white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian's loss of power and control constitutes decline?

Where in the hell have you been for the last 4 or more years?

5 trillion of debt on our children.

an over 8 percent unemployment rate for 4 years.

Credit rating dropped

more people on food stamps then ever.

47 percent of the population do not make enough money to pay federal income tax.

those are just some but should be more then enough to convince anyone who wishes to learn.

We've been deeper in debt as a percentage of the GDP (see: 1945), the unemployment rate has been higher (see: 1983 and the Great Depression). We survived and prospered.

But, how is temporary fluctuations in the economy "declining?"

 

[FJO]

We've heard this kind of racist drivel offered up as philosophy before. It's nothing new.


"I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race...What an alteration there would be if they Africans were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence."


"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."


"Africa is still lying ready for us it is our duty to take it. It is our duty to seize every opportunity of acquiring more territory and we should keep this one idea steadily before our eyes that more territory simply means more of the Anglo-Saxon race more of the best the most human, most honourable race the world possesses."

Cecil Rhodes

Nothing proves the superiority of the black race more than the resounding economic, cultural and legal triumph of the country formerly known as Rhodesia.

Named, of course, after Sir Cecil Rhodes.

 

[Oldguy]

I can't speak for anyone else.

My state is on the verge of bankruptcy, if it were a business, it would have been put out of our misery a long while ago.

The federal government is following the path of my state.

Under both, we are getting 'more' stuff, much lower quality. What we need of high quality-such as border security, bridges, roads, and other infrastructure, we're not getting and unlikely with the rising costs of borrowing-at least at state level because of several credit downgrades.

How does that equate to a declining America?

What people see and fear is the Decline of the British Empire.

England was not taken over by the Germans. They just did not have the financial status to withstand winning two world wars.

That is why the economic stuff worries many so greatly.

I see parallels to the end of the Western Roman Empire as well but that came apart dramatically in the end, and I believe we are more headed towards England's "fate".

It wasn't the world wars which ended the British Empire. It was simply that The People of Great Britain grew tired of the cost in treasure and blood. The Empire was collapsing before either world war started and the Boer War was the final straw. That the Empire survived a few more decades is little more than an historical oddity.

 

[Mac1958]

.

I wouldn't be considered a conservative, and I take American decline as a given. The only question is how far the decline will ultimately be. If a lower standard of living simply means we have fewer toys, that's one thing. But if our culture continues to decay and dissolve at its current pace, that could be another.

Define "decline," please.

There could be any number of definitions, but the only one that matters to me is standard of living. The American Left has contributed to it with its consistent and simplistic willingness to lower standards in the interest of "fairness", the American Right has contributed to it with its abject capitulation to the musings of that great philosopher, Gordon Gekko. And our society/culture in general has contributed to it, well, I give you "The Kardashians" as an example, giving great value and celebrity for no good reason whatsoever.

And, of course, both sides will ultimately point the finger at the other, which is what each side does best.

.

 

[FJO]

Specifically, where and how do y'all see America as "declining," other than the OP's suggestion that the white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian's loss of power and control constitutes decline?

It was those "white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian" values that made America successful, kept America strong and free and the genuine and undisputed leader of the free world. When those values are diminished, America is diminished.

None of the emerging minorities (sadly, almost MAJORITIES now) can present anything near comparable.

If you cherish societies that chop off your hand for stealing a loaf of bread when you are hungry, you must be real happy about the mushrooming mosques all over the place.

If you honor a country that keeps its citizens so poor that those citizens risk life and limb, change their status from citizen to ILLEGAL immigrant, just to come to America for a better life, you must be happy that those citizens - now illegal aliens - are taking jobs away from your kids and grand kids.

If you think that the life style that is prevalent in large cities that are and have been run by Democratic black mayors is desirable for the entire country, you must be ecstatic about the first - and re-elected - black mayor of the United States. You must be happy that under his watch the entire country will soon be a gigantic Detroit, Watts or Chicago.

I am old enough to say that I am happy that I won't be here when that happens.

 

[FJO]

.

I wouldn't be considered a conservative, and I take American decline as a given. The only question is how far the decline will ultimately be. If a lower standard of living simply means we have fewer toys, that's one thing. But if our culture continues to decay and dissolve at its current pace, that could be another.

Define "decline," please.

There could be any number of definitions, but the only one that matters to me is standard of living. The American Left has contributed to it with its consistent and simplistic willingness to lower standards in the interest of "fairness", the American Right has contributed to it with its abject capitulation to the musings of that great philosopher, Gordon Gekko. And our society/culture in general has contributed to it, well, I give you "The Kardashians" as an example, giving great value and celebrity for no good reason whatsoever.

And, of course, both sides will ultimately point the finger at the other, which is what each side does best.

.

Actually, the "standard of living" is secondary to the similar, but in its roots, entirely different measure of human condition: QUALITY OF LIFE.

When 70% of black children are born into fatherless "family", that ain't no quality of life. That leads to being a school dropout, a juvie and eventually a convict.

When 50% of so-called high school graduates can't read or count past ten (10) that ain't no quality of life.

When all of the above are Obama voters, that ain't no quality of life.

Just sad fact of life.

 

[Oldguy]

There could be any number of definitions,

Yes, there could and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on.

but the only one that matters to me is standard of living.

What do you mean by "standard of living?" That's usually defined economically and sometimes equates to the prospect of doing better than your parents did. What's your definition?

The American Left has contributed to it with its consistent and simplistic willingness to lower standards in the interest of "fairness", the American Right has contributed to it with its abject capitulation to the musings of that great philosopher, Gordon Gekko. And our society/culture in general has contributed to it, well, I give you "The Kardashians" as an example, giving great value and celebrity for no good reason whatsoever.

And, of course, both sides will ultimately point the finger at the other, which is what each side does best.

.

So, what's the solution to that?

 

[Oldguy]

It was those "white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian" values that made America successful, kept America strong and free and the genuine and undisputed leader of the free world. When those values are diminished, America is diminished.

What values?

None of the emerging minorities (sadly, almost MAJORITIES now) can present anything near comparable.

Compared to what?

If you cherish societies that chop off your hand for stealing a loaf of bread when you are hungry, you must be real happy about the mushrooming mosques all over the place.

According to the CIA World Fact Book (actually, a pretty good source) Muslim's make up 0.6% of our population. And, a good many of them are Black Muslim's, who aren't real "Muslim's" at all. Why are you afraid of such a minuscule number of people?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

If you honor a country that keeps its citizens so poor that those citizens risk life and limb, change their status from citizen to ILLEGAL immigrant, just to come to America for a better life, you must be happy that those citizens - now illegal aliens - are taking jobs away from your kids and grand kids.

What the hell are you talking about? "Honor" what country and what has it got to do with a declining America?

If you think that the life style that is prevalent in large cities that are and have been run by Democratic black mayors is desirable for the entire country, you must be ecstatic about the first - and re-elected - black mayor of the United States. You must be happy that under his watch the entire country will soon be a gigantic Detroit, Watts or Chicago.

I won't comment on your racial tirade, but will simply ask for any proof you have that the whole country will soon be like Detroit or Watts or Chicago.

 

[Oldguy]

Actually, the "standard of living" is secondary to the similar, but in its roots, entirely different measure of human condition: QUALITY OF LIFE.

How do you define "quality of life?"

When 70% of black children are born into fatherless "family", that ain't no quality of life. That leads to being a school dropout, a juvie and eventually a convict.

What about white children born into fatherless families? Is that different? Why and how?

 

[craner]

Whow, the liberals keep proving the Pravda article correct. Attack and personal insult nothing new here.

America had a chance to change the course of America and by hook or by crook we stayed on the Titanic to rearrange the deck chairs.

In my short time here I gotta say you are one of the best posters I've some across.

 

[Toronado3800]

How does that equate to a declining America?

What people see and fear is the Decline of the British Empire.

England was not taken over by the Germans. They just did not have the financial status to withstand winning two world wars.

That is why the economic stuff worries many so greatly.

I see parallels to the end of the Western Roman Empire as well but that came apart dramatically in the end, and I believe we are more headed towards England's "fate".

It wasn't the world wars which ended the British Empire. It was simply that The People of Great Britain grew tired of the cost in treasure and blood. The Empire was collapsing before either world war started and the Boer War was the final straw. That the Empire survived a few more decades is little more than an historical oddity.

I think you agreed with me? Sure we can say England was already strung tight at the turn of the century. They were. And I suppose we can debate how tired they were vs how broke they were....

But that is your way of agreeing economics ended the British Empire, right?

 

[Toronado3800]

We've heard this kind of racist drivel offered up as philosophy before. It's nothing new.


"I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race...What an alteration there would be if they Africans were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence."


"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life."


"Africa is still lying ready for us it is our duty to take it. It is our duty to seize every opportunity of acquiring more territory and we should keep this one idea steadily before our eyes that more territory simply means more of the Anglo-Saxon race more of the best the most human, most honourable race the world possesses."

Cecil Rhodes

Nothing proves the superiority of the black race more than the resounding economic, cultural and legal triumph of the country formerly known as Rhodesia.

Named, of course, after Sir Cecil Rhodes.

Ah, you said race not culture.

So let me get this straight, the Africans were better genetically 3,000 years ago, so were the Persians and Chinese?

Then the Europeans got better during the Greek/Roman eras until 500AD? Then the Arabs got better genetically, so did the Chinese and heck, whatever you consider the Huns?

Then after a thousand years off the white Europeans got better genetically again and enjoyed that for 600 years until the South and South East Asians are passing them?

Please explain if this summarizes your view.

 

[Toronado3800]

Specifically, where and how do y'all see America as "declining," other than the OP's suggestion that the white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian's loss of power and control constitutes decline?

It was those "white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian" values that made America successful, kept America strong and free and the genuine and undisputed leader of the free world. When those values are diminished, America is diminished.

None of the emerging minorities (sadly, almost MAJORITIES now) can present anything near comparable.

If you cherish societies that chop off your hand for stealing a loaf of bread when you are hungry, you must be real happy about the mushrooming mosques all over the place.

If you honor a country that keeps its citizens so poor that those citizens risk life and limb, change their status from citizen to ILLEGAL immigrant, just to come to America for a better life, you must be happy that those citizens - now illegal aliens - are taking jobs away from your kids and grand kids.

If you think that the life style that is prevalent in large cities that are and have been run by Democratic black mayors is desirable for the entire country, you must be ecstatic about the first - and re-elected - black mayor of the United States. You must be happy that under his watch the entire country will soon be a gigantic Detroit, Watts or Chicago.

I am old enough to say that I am happy that I won't be here when that happens.

Wait. Slow down your worshiping of Liberal FDR and Truman. America did rise to prominence after WWII. But as much as they created modern America and guided it to be the superpower against communism, geographic isolation helped more than a bit. The rest of the developed world was bombed out or had tanks run through it. So naturally we were #1 in production of anything in 1946 and ran with it for some time.

Anyways, it wasn't it FDR who captured the black vote for the Democrats for the first time.

Oh yeah, and I agree Mexico sucks but I love Mexicans here. Them fellas are out working while even someone my age knows white angle saxon non practicing protestant/catholic failure to launch 30 somethings who milk the honeypot.

 

[Mac1958]

What do you mean by "standard of living?" That's usually defined economically and sometimes equates to the prospect of doing better than your parents did. What's your definition?

My real answer to this is pretty long, so I'll keep it as short as I can: Another poster here used the term "quality of life", and that's really what I mean. First, in terms of wealth production, I think this country has peaked and is now headed downhill, for a variety of reasons. But to me, that's a given, it is what it is, we just have to live with that. So let's say that wealth production, how much shit we have or can have, is "standard of living".

But, the question to me is whether having more stuff is really improving our quality of life. Does a decline in our standard of living mean that we only have two 36" TV's instead of two 52" TV's? A small or medium-sized car instead of a Hummer? Maybe having to spend a little more time at home with our family instead of jetting around the world on vacations so that other Americans can afford to eat? In other words, a little more humble lifestyle? I'm not so sure, but I do wonder if we've so spoiled ourselves that having to slow down on our conspicuous consumption would cause us some kind of mental anguish.

So is a lower standard of living coming? Yeah, I think so. A lower quality of life? I'm not so sure, but we're gonna find out.

So, what's the solution to that?

I think virtually all of our problems are rooted in a culture in decay, and the only way to fix the problems is to examine our culture and commit to repairing it. How? I have no freakin' idea, especially with everyone so polarized. And no one of importance is gonna list to me, sure as hell.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Specifically, where and how do y'all see America as "declining," other than the OP's suggestion that the white, Anglo-Protestant, Judeo-Christian's loss of power and control constitutes decline?

We're declining as a destination for foreign investment. We're declining as a dynamic economy. We're declining as a military power. We're declining as an influence in world politics. We're declining as a dynamic society where people work hard and get ahead into the middle and upper middle classes.

What real, hard evidence do you have to back that up?

And please note that none of that is brand new. We've been there before and the Republic survived. Not only survived, but prospered. Why won't we this time?

We wont because the ethos of the country has changed. That's what the last election showed. We've become a nation of entitlement. We want someone else to pay for our free shit. It can be the feds. It can be the federal reserve. It can be the world bank. Doesn't matter. But someone else has to pay for our free shit. This is where Greece finds itself now, only several steps down the same path.
We're had 4 years of pitiful GDP growth. Money seeks out the best return. And that best return is less and less here. We see the results of weakened US military all over, with wars and rebellions breaking out. We have less influence.

 

[regent]

We're declining as a destination for foreign investment. We're declining as a dynamic economy. We're declining as a military power. We're declining as an influence in world politics. We're declining as a dynamic society where people work hard and get ahead into the middle and upper middle classes.

What real, hard evidence do you have to back that up?

And please note that none of that is brand new. We've been there before and the Republic survived. Not only survived, but prospered. Why won't we this time?

We wont because the ethos of the country has changed. That's what the last election showed. We've become a nation of entitlement. We want someone else to pay for our free shit. It can be the feds. It can be the federal reserve. It can be the world bank. Doesn't matter. But someone else has to pay for our free shit. This is where Greece finds itself now, only several steps down the same path.
We're had 4 years of pitiful GDP growth. Money seeks out the best return. And that best return is less and less here. We see the results of weakened US military all over, with wars and rebellions breaking out. We have less influence.

We have always been a nation of entitlements, but who is entitled, and to what are they entitled is sometimes vague. When the American riff-raff people are entitled, it is not vague, however, it is broadcast from the highest yardarm, and fascinating stories created about lazy, shiftless people feeding at the public entitlement trough abound.
When the wealthy, the elite, corporations are entitled, however, it is a quiet secret and few Americans even know what entitlements the upper class receive. Romney mentioned he would close some of the entitlement loopholes he just never got around to naming one loopholes. I would suspect they were some of few loopholes for the riff-raff.

 

[The Rabbi]

What real, hard evidence do you have to back that up?

And please note that none of that is brand new. We've been there before and the Republic survived. Not only survived, but prospered. Why won't we this time?

We wont because the ethos of the country has changed. That's what the last election showed. We've become a nation of entitlement. We want someone else to pay for our free shit. It can be the feds. It can be the federal reserve. It can be the world bank. Doesn't matter. But someone else has to pay for our free shit. This is where Greece finds itself now, only several steps down the same path.
We're had 4 years of pitiful GDP growth. Money seeks out the best return. And that best return is less and less here. We see the results of weakened US military all over, with wars and rebellions breaking out. We have less influence.

We have always been a nation of entitlements, but who is entitled, and to what are they entitled is sometimes vague. When the American riff-raff people are entitled, it is not vague, however, it is broadcast from the highest yardarm, and fascinating stories created about lazy, shiftless people feeding at the public entitlement trough abound.
When the wealthy, the elite, corporations are entitled, however, it is a quiet secret and few Americans even know what entitlements the upper class receive. Romney mentioned he would close some of the entitlement loopholes he just never got around to naming one loopholes. I would suspect they were some of few loopholes for the riff-raff.

Your knowledge of American history sucks. Entitlements mean people expect big daddy government to pick up the tab. That has only been going on since FDR, and has only applied to the Gimme People.

 

[regent]

We wont because the ethos of the country has changed. That's what the last election showed. We've become a nation of entitlement. We want someone else to pay for our free shit. It can be the feds. It can be the federal reserve. It can be the world bank. Doesn't matter. But someone else has to pay for our free shit. This is where Greece finds itself now, only several steps down the same path.
We're had 4 years of pitiful GDP growth. Money seeks out the best return. And that best return is less and less here. We see the results of weakened US military all over, with wars and rebellions breaking out. We have less influence.

We have always been a nation of entitlements, but who is entitled, and to what are they entitled is sometimes vague. When the American riff-raff people are entitled, it is not vague, however, it is broadcast from the highest yardarm, and fascinating stories created about lazy, shiftless people feeding at the public entitlement trough abound.
When the wealthy, the elite, corporations are entitled, however, it is a quiet secret and few Americans even know what entitlements the upper class receive. Romney mentioned he would close some of the entitlement loopholes he just never got around to naming one loopholes. I would suspect they were some of few loopholes for the riff-raff.

Your knowledge of American history sucks. Entitlements mean people expect big daddy government to pick up the tab. That has only been going on since FDR, and has only applied to the Gimme People.

Might want to check out our history, and the definition of entitlements. Were the pensions paid to the veterans of the Revolutionary War entitlements?

 

[The Rabbi]

We have always been a nation of entitlements, but who is entitled, and to what are they entitled is sometimes vague. When the American riff-raff people are entitled, it is not vague, however, it is broadcast from the highest yardarm, and fascinating stories created about lazy, shiftless people feeding at the public entitlement trough abound.
When the wealthy, the elite, corporations are entitled, however, it is a quiet secret and few Americans even know what entitlements the upper class receive. Romney mentioned he would close some of the entitlement loopholes he just never got around to naming one loopholes. I would suspect they were some of few loopholes for the riff-raff.

Your knowledge of American history sucks. Entitlements mean people expect big daddy government to pick up the tab. That has only been going on since FDR, and has only applied to the Gimme People.

Might want to check out our history, and the definition of entitlements. Were the pensions paid to the veterans of the Revolutionary War entitlements?

Are salaries entitlements?

 

[regent]

Your knowledge of American history sucks. Entitlements mean people expect big daddy government to pick up the tab. That has only been going on since FDR, and has only applied to the Gimme People.

Might want to check out our history, and the definition of entitlements. Were the pensions paid to the veterans of the Revolutionary War entitlements?

Are salaries entitlements?

No, no, I asked you first, were the pensions paid to the veterans of the Revolutionary War entitlements?