Revelations 12

[BulletProof]

What I find strange is that there are proof texts for both pre-trib and mid-trib raptures also references to both salvation by grace and with most famously the wise and foolish virgins salvation by works.

What I find strange is how much of a dumbshit you are. Go ahead, shithead, show me one proof text for a pre-trib rapture and one for a mid-trib rapture so I can show you how fcking illiterate you are. There are no verses that support either, shithead.

 

[Taz]

No theists can agree on anything (like at this board).

In anything, shitheads don't agree on anything except when following someone else. Don't blame the Bible for most people being shitheads.

I blame the bible for being dumb.

 

[Taz]

God LOVES ME!!!!! So I have no worries.

Yeah, I'm sure he loves you.

Just like any father loves his idiot son who can't put two thoughts together.

Even so, he will send you out to work with your hands and labor in the fields.

Otherwise you would become a genuine good for nothing.


Off you go now. You have work to do. The turd may have missed you but I heard the invisible sky fairy is very adept at setting people on fire and doling out that stiff kick in the ass. Life can be a very hard teacher. At least you already know that much....don't you?

And what father would send his idiot son to hell? None, that's how many. So I'm safe. Dunno about you though, because I'm not sure how god treats people who have no clue like you. I'll put in a good word for you. Not your fault and all that jazz... I'm pretty sure He'll fall for it.

No loving father would send his idiot son to hell. He would teach him that it isn't a good idea to put his weenie in a meat grinder.

I guess you have a really short attention span or never got the memo.

Save me a seat in hell, and remember, don't pass Adolf the BBQ ribs, he's a vegetarian, just liike me.

I will tell you something. Try to hear.

You are already in hell. The decaying garbage that comes out of your addled mind, your own thoughts, provide verifiable evidence to anyone with a functioning nose.

Can't you smell that smell?

The only thing you smell over the internet is yourself. Your fantasy world is getting out of hand.

 

[BulletProof]

God LOVES ME!!!!! So I have no worries.

God hates most people.

 

[Taz]

God LOVES ME!!!!! So I have no worries.

God hates most people.

But I have a boat and some animals!!!

 

[BulletProof]

But I have a boat and some animals!!!

Good for you. 99.9999% of the population won't drown because God loves them, but because God hates them.

 

[Picaro]

The ministry, death and resurrection of the two prophets is watched worldwide in real time. Why is this not preached as fulfilled prophecy?

Do you mean "fulfilled prophecy" as you wrote, as in the past? Or is that a typo and you're a dumbshit? Do you mean that the two witnesses will be seen in real time?

What else could be meant in context? English must not be your native tongue. rev. 12 was used up until the first TV satellite was launched in the 60s as a means of attacking scripture.

the book was written in Greek

Yes it was and there was a typo Rev 11, not 12. But it is well translated. This part of Revelations scared Calvin so bad that he skipped Revelations in his commentary on the Bible. But you can get an interlinear or multiple ones cheap and check the translation yourself with a concordance which is also cheap just check Amazon, Barnes & Noble or Walmart.com for that matter.

Rev 12 is part of a major chiasm that goes back to Genesis, and along the way back to several Prophets and several more chiaistic structures; be careful which Prophets you may name, as it's very easy to be wrong. The Bible, an particularly Revelations, is a very complex work, and most people are not educated enough in how it is structured to make claims about most of it.

As for the 'it's written in Greek' idiocy, it's written in several languages, and they all match each other, so pay no attention to the Xian bashers who run around babbling idiocy about 'Roman Emperors writing it n stuff' and all the rest; the NT is even more accurate than the OT; the writers were mostly Pharisees and the best educated Jewish scholars of their day.

 

[irosie91]

The ministry, death and resurrection of the two prophets is watched worldwide in real time. Why is this not preached as fulfilled prophecy?

Do you mean "fulfilled prophecy" as you wrote, as in the past? Or is that a typo and you're a dumbshit? Do you mean that the two witnesses will be seen in real time?

What else could be meant in context? English must not be your native tongue. rev. 12 was used up until the first TV satellite was launched in the 60s as a means of attacking scripture.

the book was written in Greek

Yes it was and there was a typo Rev 11, not 12. But it is well translated. This part of Revelations scared Calvin so bad that he skipped Revelations in his commentary on the Bible. But you can get an interlinear or multiple ones cheap and check the translation yourself with a concordance which is also cheap just check Amazon, Barnes & Noble or Walmart.com for that matter.

Rev 12 is part of a major chiasm that goes back to Genesis, and along the way back to several Prophets and several more chiaistic structures; be careful which Prophets you may name, as it's very easy to be wrong. The Bible, an particularly Revelations, is a very complex work, and most people are not educated enough in how it is structured to make claims about most of it.

Please define the term "major chiasm" in the context of your post--PIC

 

[badger2]

Ín "The End of All Things,"Kant pursues this argument via a discussion of religious writings on the apocalypse. The word apocalypse derives from the Greek word for "revelation." Typically, it designates an end of the world when timeless truth will be revealed and everything that is mere temporal appearance will be destroyed. Following the basic move in his critical philosophy, Kant reinforces that such apocalyptic consummation should not be made into an object of cognition, since reason is then caught in irresolvable contradictions.

For example, if we describe the end of the mortal world as the beginning of the immortal world "the former is brought into the same temporal series with the latter, which contradicts itself." Kant can thus criticize the religious dogmas that claim to have knowledge of the apocalypse and the last judgment, since they disregard the limitations of all cognition. At the same time, Kant maintains that the idea of the apocalyptic consummation has a legitimate source in the Idea of the highest good, which requires an end of time. If everything always will be subjected to time, there cannot ever be anything thast is "the best,"since it may always become better or worse. Thepostulate Kant shares with religious traditions of revelation is thus that (there ought to be an end to finitude ([italics]), which is to say: there ought to be an end to the negative infinity of time.

The logic of deconstruction is the inverse of such apocalyptic logic. As I will elaborate in Chapter 3, Derrida articulates the negative infinity of time as an irreducible condition of being in general.'
(Radicval Atheism: Derridqa and the Time of Life, p. 45)

 

[Picaro]

Kant's philosophy was destroyed by Adler's criticisms in the 1920's.

 

[badger2]

#20: You cannot post just where Adler "destroys" Kant's premises we have mentioned. Your pathology is that you took the reactionary bait and proposed that all of Kant's philosophy was "destroyed," which is a fairy tale.

 

[badger2]

We doubt that there is a USMB prisoner who will debate the objective material already posted, because it makes John of Patmos look hysterical, which he was.

 

[Picaro]

Kant's philosophy was destroyed by Adler's criticisms in the 1920's.

Actually, a correction: It was Alfred Ayer, not Adler. I get them mixed up. Of course, there are still idiots around who think reading Cliff notes in their Intro to Philosophy elective made them informed or something, while never having read one of the key books on the topic, and should be required reading as an intro instead of the hippie pap modern academia deems 'sufficient', meaning real easy for seat warmers to write silly little essays on or pass simplistic Scantron questions about.

 

[Picaro]

We doubt that there is a USMB prisoner who will debate the objective material already posted, because it makes John of Patmos look hysterical, which he was.

Well, they're just waiting for a competent debater to come along, is all. So far it's just emotionally retarded trolls spamming threads at the moment, posng as 'atheists', trying to convince themselves they're not superstitious losers.

 

[Picaro]

What I find strange is that there are proof texts for both pre-trib and mid-trib raptures also references to both salvation by grace and with most famously the wise and foolish virgins salvation by works.

I think if you took up a study of the chaistic structures you will find out that verses don't exist in a vacuum and multiple meanings an literary devices are in play here; in the case of Rev 12 they go back to Genesis and through several more books of the Torah and the later prophets. It's a topic in itself, but probably impossible to discuss here with all the trolls and dysfunctional deviants and sociopaths allowed to spam threads with no moderation.

 

[Picaro]

If one doesn't have a fairly thorough understanding of the Torah, they are never going to get Revelations, any of it, or much of anything else in the NT. The Jesus ministry's entire timeline follows the Torah's books, and his expositions and parables on the law of Moses are key. Reading the closing chapter of a text book without reading the first five, is essentially a waste of time and effort.

Some examples here in these essays:

The Jesus Blog: Summation of the Torah - Hillel and Jesus

Hillel and Jesus

These are just examples of what to loo for, methodologies, etc., and necessarily representative of anybody's personal theologies, including mine, just a sampling of the issues. I personally like the first link the best of the two, and there are certainly bound to be better ones out there, I didn't have a lot of time to look around.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Want to understand the Revelation ? You can,.. if , you just heed the Revelation. Without trying to correlate the Revelation to any other book ... nor any other book of the Bible.

Counting on Jesus Spirit for help .....Just heed the Revelation .... The Revelation never tell the reader to try to correlate the Revelation with any other book.

Trying to correlate the Rev with other books will just lead to confusion and error.

 

[Picaro]

Want to understand the Revelation ? You can,.. if , you just heed the Revelation. Without trying to correlate the Revelation to any other book ... nor any other book of the Bible.

Counting on Jesus Spirit for help .....Just heed the Revelation .... The Revelation never tell the reader to try to correlate the Revelation with any other book.

Trying to correlate the Rev with other books will just lead to confusion and error.

Actually Revelation makes no sense without the Torah and the previous prophecies and know ledges. They are all related, from beginning to the last book. No point in reading any of it if all you're going to do is just take cite verses as if the books are just lists of isolated verses with no relation to one another. The verse numbering is merely a later convenience for easier reference, and doesn't exist in the originals. It's amazing how many people still don't know that, speaking of errors and confusions. Understanding the chiastic structures in fact makes it less confusing and much clearer. So does reading such historical references as Jeremia's Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, which makes much of the context, information, and references in the stories much clearer as well; there are no anacrhonisms in the NT, anywhere, another amazing fact for a book that some here constantly claim was written 300 years later, by some Romans who were just faking it, and who never even visited Jerusalem, much less would know anything about the years in question.

If one has no interests in the religion or its roots and multiple levels of teachings and thought, then just stick to the Sermon on the Mount and avoid reading any of it at all.

 

[Picaro]

We doubt that there is a USMB prisoner who will debate the objective material already posted, because it makes John of Patmos look hysterical, which he was.

Some hysterical poster is projecting again.

 

[Witchit]

But I have a boat and some animals!!!

Good for you. 99.9999% of the population won't drown because God loves them, but because God hates them.

So you serve a god of hate? Apparently made in your image.