Refuted : Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus !

[Dragon]

Wrong again, but that is to be expected. Do not have to prove anything, Bible says it, that is proof enough.

The First Amendment exists to keep people like you powerless. You are living proof of how much and why it is needed.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Wrong again, but that is to be expected. Do not have to prove anything, Bible says it, that is proof enough.

The First Amendment exists to keep people like you powerless. You are living proof of how much and why it is needed.

Still wrong, the first amendment was written to protect Christians rights. The founding fathers knew that to do that they had to make it all inclusive though. Funny how non believers can post stupid stuff and when Christians respond we are the ones that are the bad guys.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Wrong again, but that is to be expected. Do not have to prove anything, Bible says it, that is proof enough.

The First Amendment exists to keep people like you powerless. You are living proof of how much and why it is needed.

Still wrong, the first amendment was written to protect Christians rights. The founding fathers knew that to do that they had to make it all inclusive though. Funny how non believers can post stupid stuff and when Christians respond we are the ones that are the bad guys.

You aren't a real christian though, it's obvious you couldn't give a shit less about the teachings of Jesus.


Take my sig for example, is that how you treat your enemies?

 

[Dragon]

Still wrong, the first amendment was written to protect Christians rights.

No. It was written to protect certain rights of PEOPLE. Not just of Christians. The language is clear.

The founding fathers knew that to do that they had to make it all inclusive though.

No, they didn't. The country had an overwhelming Christian majority. It was divided into multiple denominations, but if the First Amendment had been written so as to merely forbid any infringement of the free exercise of Christianity -- instead of "religion" -- that would have flown politically. They didn't. The language is clear, and you are provably, demonstrably wrong.

That's one advantage of talking about things in the observable world, like the language of the Constitution. When you say something asinine about God, all one can do is point out that neither you nor any other human being possesses such knowledge. But when you say something asinine about something we can actually check, we can do that. And you're wrong. Provably so.

Funny how non believers can post stupid stuff and when Christians respond we are the ones that are the bad guys.

You are the bad guys because you call beliefs different from your own "stupid stuff," with no basis in logic other than that they are different from your own. Happily, the First Amendment renders you powerless, so you are only a would-be bad guy; you can call Islam a form of devil-worship, but you can't enforce that opinion with the power of the state. Let's keep it that way.

 

[Dragon]

"They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

I concur with Mr. Jefferson here.

 

[AmericanFirst]

The First Amendment exists to keep people like you powerless. You are living proof of how much and why it is needed.

Still wrong, the first amendment was written to protect Christians rights. The founding fathers knew that to do that they had to make it all inclusive though. Funny how non believers can post stupid stuff and when Christians respond we are the ones that are the bad guys.

You aren't a real christian though, it's obvious you couldn't give a shit less about the teachings of Jesus.


Take my sig for example, is that how you treat your enemies?

Who said anything about anyone being my enemy? What makes you think I am not a real Christian? A real Christian would not dispute the truths in the Bible. A real Christian believes the Bible as the word of God as I do. Just because I dispute some on here doesn't mean I think they are my enemy.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Still wrong, the first amendment was written to protect Christians rights. The founding fathers knew that to do that they had to make it all inclusive though. Funny how non believers can post stupid stuff and when Christians respond we are the ones that are the bad guys.

You aren't a real christian though, it's obvious you couldn't give a shit less about the teachings of Jesus.


Take my sig for example, is that how you treat your enemies?

Who said anything about anyone being my enemy? What makes you think I am not a real Christian? A real Christian would not dispute the truths in the Bible. A real Christian believes the Bible as the word of God as I do. Just because I dispute some on here doesn't mean I think they are my enemy.

Whether you admit it or not, it's clear in how you type muslims are your enemy and at least on this board you treat them like cow shit.


Exactly the opposite of what Jesus says to do.

 

[Sunni Man]

Who said anything about anyone being my enemy? What makes you think I am not a real Christian? A real Christian would not dispute the truths in the Bible. A real Christian believes the Bible as the word of God as I do. Just because I dispute some on here doesn't mean I think they are my enemy.

Real Christians are trying to fulfill the "Great Commission".

Which is to spread the Gospel across the globe to the ends of the earth like Jesus instructed.

So I fail to see how calling Muslim people names and insulting them in a most despicable manner is following the teachings of Jesus?

 

[Inquisitor]

The word "Allah" is arabic for "The God"

Not a different God; just God

Funny thing is that if you go to a Christian Church in the Middle East; Lebanon, Egypt. Syria, Iraq. etc

Their Bibles are written in Arabic because that's what the people speak..

And all thru their Bible's the name Allah is used to denote God.

A completely different God. As different as night and day. Allah has no son. To bring home that point, in big bold letters on the dome of the rock, it says GOD HAS NO SON. On the other hand, the God of Abraham has a son. If one has a son, and one does not, you can't be talking about the SAME entity.

Islamic folk believe that God is the God of Abraham.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then they know He had a son. They need to replace the decree they made on the Dome........

 

[The Irish Ram]

The word "Allah" is Arabic for "The God"

Not a different God; just God

Funny thing is that if you go to a Christian Church in the Middle East; Lebanon, Egypt. Syria, Iraq. etc

Their Bibles are written in Arabic because that's what the people speak..

And all thru their Bible's the name Allah is used to denote God.

A completely different God. As different as night and day. Allah has no son. To bring home that point, in big bold letters on the dome of the rock, it says GOD HAS NO SON. On the other hand, the God of Abraham has a son. If one has a son, and one does not, you can't be talking about the SAME entity.

Abraham was the first monotheist and the Father of both the Muslims and the Jews as recorded in the Torah (Old Testament).

Abraham had two sons; Isaac and Ishmael.

He taught both of his son's to worship the "One" God; called Yahweh in Hebrew and Allah in Arabic.

Isaac had 12 sons which became the patriarchs of the 12 Tribes of Israel.

Ishmael also had 12 sons, who became the patriarchs of the 12 Tribes of Arabia.

Both genealogies of the two brothers and their descendants are recorded in the Torah.

Nowhere in the Torah (Old Testament) does it say that Abraham taught his sons that God had a son or was going to have a son.

Nor is it recorded in the Torah that any of Isaac or Ishmael's descendants taught that God would have a son.

This false doctrine of God having a physical son walking the earth.

Was an invention foisted on the Jewish followers of Jesus long after his death.

Later taken up by the gentile believers who further twisted the words of Jesus and invented the religion called Christianity.

Abraham having Issac was God's plan. Abraham having Ishmael was Sarah's plan. God described the descendants of Ishmael in Gen. 16:12. He didn't MAKE them that way, he was prophesying.
God has a covenant with Abraham, to look after Abraham's children. ALL of his children.
The el at the end of Ishmael's name means "he belongs to God". Abraham's God. And Abraham LOVED Ishmael. You can trace what we watch on TV now in the middle east back to the eldest brother feeling he was robbed of his inheritance, by his younger brother Issac. One has declared, "NO LAND-NO PEACE". the other, "NO PEACE-NO LAND".

When God asked Abraham to take Issac to a specific place to sacrifice him, Abraham didn't need to be tested as to the strength of his faith. He ate supper with the All Mighty! They hung out!!
Even if he did have to kill Issac, Abe knew that generations were promised through Issac, so Abraham's friend, God, would just bring him back to life so......
No, not a test of faith. That drama was to show Abraham, what God was going to go through when He actually DID sacrifice His SON. Some believe that it was actually the same spot.
There are many references to God's son in the Torah. Ishmael, took a different route, and even though they acknowledge Abraham and Jesus, they have formed a religion of their own. The God of Abraham, the father of Christ, intends to step in and remove the hatred between the brothers, and give all of Abraham's children their fair share and they will live in peace and love.
Allah contends that peace can only come about on this earth by killing their brothers and everyone else that does not comply with the edicts of Mohammad. Peace will be achieved when they are the only ones left.
They are not the same god./different dialect. Allah is not the God of Abraham.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I believe that YAHWEH is God,I believe Jesus is God,I believe the spirit is God,I believe the Angel of the Lord is God.

I don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity. I believe that is how God has revealed himself to man.

If you are a Christian, you believe in the Trinity. If you do not you need to read the Bible again.

I have spent a lot of time debating the bible , creation,and evolution. These are some very hard subjects to debate rationally.

If you like start a thread and I will show you from scripture why I believe as I do. I assure you I am not illiterate.

I don't deny your expertise, I just didn't and still don't understand your platform.
For instance:
The trinity IS the way God revealed himself to us, among other things, so if you believe that that God revealed himself to man by way of the trinity, don't you then believe in the trinity?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Reminder:
for haters who doesn't know God of Jesus was Allah -with evidence:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/4659798-post135.html

Jesus didn't know about trinity.

The True Message of Jesus Christ
The True Message of Jesus Christ

JESUS : A PROPHET, NOT A SON, OF GOD
Prophet Jesus (pbuh): A Prophet, Not a Son, of God - Harun Yahya



Jesus test -Who Really Follows Jesus?
Jesus Test - Road To Paradise

Lying gets you nowhere. No proof whatsoever. The God of Jesus was Jehova, Jesus is the Son of God, not just a prophet. You satan worshipers can lie as much and long as you want to, doesn't mean anything but you are liars. Allah=satan, mohamed was a lying pedophile.

Are you a JW ? Not that I mind I once believed as they do.

But by one of your posts you are saying Jesus has a GOD how does that fit with the trinity doctrine ?

God wears many hats. From noon till 3 pm, while Christ was hanging on the cross, God was a trial judge. When Jesus prayed in the cool of the garden, he prayed to Abba, his Daddy. He trusted the God that moves mountains, to raise him from the dead. But they were all still his father.
I am a triune. I am a daughter, a wife, and a mother, and I act completely differently in each role. But I am the same person.

 

[The Irish Ram]

To say that Allah is not the same God worshiped by Christians because Allah has "no son" is angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin stuff. It's focusing on triviality. For one thing, the phrase "God's son" is obviously a metaphor, and what it literally refers to is anything but clear.

A man can have a son, literally. A woman can have a son, literally. If a man has a son, that means that a sperm cell produced by his body fertilized an ovum that matured into a male offspring. If a woman has a son, that means that an ovum produced by her body was fertilized by a sperm cell and matured into a male offspring.

As God has no penis, no testicles, no womb, and no ovaries -- at least in the literal meaning of these terms -- he cannot have a son, at least in the literal meaning of this term. So when Christians say "Jesus is the son of God" while Muslims say "God has no son," they are obviously not using the word "son" in the same way, nor are the Christians at least using it in the usual and literal sense.

This is not an important difference. Christians and Muslims have different ideas about what God is and what God's will might be in some particulars, but since nobody can know everything about God, who is far too big to fit into a box or under your hat, there is room for both to be right and both to be wrong. Remember the story of the blind men and the elephant, and gain a little spiritual humility.

I'm not being confrontational, but I have to disagree. The difference is so important that the eternal lives of all of mankind depends on it. "No man gets to heaven but through me", is out of the mouth of the Son of God, the only one worthy to inherit the kingdom, and our planet.

The Holy Ghost<the power pac of God, was responsible for contributing what Mary needed to become pregnant.
As far as a penis, her maidenhead remained intact until the birth. She and Joseph didn't have sex until after Jesus was born.
Some think that God was cruel when he would tell his followers to kill everything in the city, even the animals, etc, but it was because prior to the flood, the demons that followed Satan to battleground earth, had mated with everything that moved and the results were nephilim, goliaths, and mutants. Noah had the only pure human bloodline left on earth. So, not only could spirits produce a penis, but the sperm to go with it. Woman were told to cover their beautiful long hair in church because the demons couldn't resist it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So are you going to add anything to the discussion?

Or are you just going to continue to troll the thread and rant and rave?

I am not ranting and raving, just speaking the truth. Truth hurts, you must be in a lot of pain. Just because you do not believe in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't true. Not believing it is your problem. Everything I believe can be proven in the words of the Bible, I suggest you read it better.

We muslims are taught to respect the Bible.

And the Quran tells us that the Gospels (which we call the "Injil" in arabic) are works inspired by God.

Unfortunately, they have been corrupted by revisions over the years.

So much of the Gospels no longer reflect what Jesus said or what he taught.

One more thing, then I'm out of here.
Sunni, How do you respect or even reconcile the Bible message to the message in the Quran? One requires us to love our enemies, and the other instructs us to kill all infidels.

The Gospels have not been corrupted over the years. They absolutely reflect what Jesus said and taught, and can be traced back to the first translations of the texts.

 

[Ancient lion]

When God asked Abraham to take Issac to a specific place to sacrifice him, Abraham didn't need to be tested as to the strength of his faith. He ate supper with the All Mighty! They hung out!!
Even if he did have to kill Issac, Abe knew that generations were promised through Issac, so Abraham's friend, God, would just bring him back to life so......
No, not a test of faith. That drama was to show Abraham, what God was going to go through when He actually DID sacrifice His SON. Some believe that it was actually the same spot.
There are many references to God's son in the Torah. Ishmael, took a different route, and even though they acknowledge Abraham and Jesus, they have formed a religion of their own. The God of Abraham, the father of Christ, intends to step in and remove the hatred between the brothers, and give all of Abraham's children their fair share and they will live in peace and love.
Allah contends that peace can only come about on this earth by killing their brothers and everyone else that does not comply with the edicts of Mohammad. Peace will be achieved when they are the only ones left.
They are not the same god./different dialect. Allah is not the God of Abraham.

The bible -not me - said it was his first son i.e Ismael.

 

[Dragon]

I'm not being confrontational, but I have to disagree. The difference is so important that the eternal lives of all of mankind depends on it. "No man gets to heaven but through me", is out of the mouth of the Son of God, the only one worthy to inherit the kingdom, and our planet.

We are discussing whether the religions of Islam and Christianity are devoted to the same God, not whether they are the same religion. Of course they are not.

As for the rest of your post, that's more angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin stuff. It's a HUGE mistake to suppose that you can even UNDERSTAND the teachings of Jesus without great mystical inspiration, and those who have gained that inspiration universally find that the similarities among religions outweigh the differences. All are dealing with realities that cannot be told, and as such, all of their teachings are metaphors. All, without exception. And how can it ever be said that one metaphor is "true" while another is "false"?

God is too big to fit into a little box. He will not fit under your hat. You can, metaphorically, say some things about what he IS. But in order to say what he is NOT, you would have to have more knowledge than is humanly possible.

There is a mystical group within Islam (which tends to this error every bit as much as Christianity) called the Sufis. The Sufis are the source of the story of the blind men and the elephant. That story goes like this, for those who haven't heard it:

Six blind men were curious about the nature of the elephant and found one and examined it to see what it was like.

One man stumbled against the elephant's broad side, and said, "The elephant is like a wall!" Another brushed against a tusk and said, "The elephant is like a spear!" A third grasped the animal's sturdy leg and said, "The elephant is like a tree!" A fourth laid hands on the ear, and said "The elephant is like a fan!" The fifth found himself holding the elephant's tail, and said "The elephant is like a rope!" And the last took hold of the trunk and said, "The elephant is like a snake!"

The blind men angrily began arguing with one another and beating each other with their canes, trying to suppress each other's heretical opinions -- when all of them were only partly right, and all of them wrong.

So it is with religions. There is no such thing as a true religion, because the truth cannot be told; it's beyond human language. The greatest spiritual teachers, including Jesus, have always understood this. That's why Jesus taught so often in parables.

Islam and Christianity are not the same religion, anymore than either of them is the same as Judaism, although all three of these are in the same related family. But when they say they worship the same God, the best approach is to accept this, and not get hung up on minutiae.

 

[AmericanFirst]

You aren't a real christian though, it's obvious you couldn't give a shit less about the teachings of Jesus.


Take my sig for example, is that how you treat your enemies?

Who said anything about anyone being my enemy? What makes you think I am not a real Christian? A real Christian would not dispute the truths in the Bible. A real Christian believes the Bible as the word of God as I do. Just because I dispute some on here doesn't mean I think they are my enemy.

Whether you admit it or not, it's clear in how you type muslims are your enemy and at least on this board you treat them like cow shit.


Exactly the opposite of what Jesus says to do.

I don't treat them like anything, I just state the truth as I see it. Whenever someone persecutes Christians though it is free speech right? That is how some see it. Posters want to post lies on here I just call them out, that is all.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I'm not being confrontational, but I have to disagree. The difference is so important that the eternal lives of all of mankind depends on it. "No man gets to heaven but through me", is out of the mouth of the Son of God, the only one worthy to inherit the kingdom, and our planet.

We are discussing whether the religions of Islam and Christianity are devoted to the same God, not whether they are the same religion. Of course they are not.

As for the rest of your post, that's more angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin stuff. It's a HUGE mistake to suppose that you can even UNDERSTAND the teachings of Jesus without great mystical inspiration, and those who have gained that inspiration universally find that the similarities among religions outweigh the differences. All are dealing with realities that cannot be told, and as such, all of their teachings are metaphors. All, without exception. And how can it ever be said that one metaphor is "true" while another is "false"?

God is too big to fit into a little box. He will not fit under your hat. You can, metaphorically, say some things about what he IS. But in order to say what he is NOT, you would have to have more knowledge than is humanly possible.

There is a mystical group within Islam (which tends to this error every bit as much as Christianity) called the Sufis. The Sufis are the source of the story of the blind men and the elephant. That story goes like this, for those who haven't heard it:

Six blind men were curious about the nature of the elephant and found one and examined it to see what it was like.

One man stumbled against the elephant's broad side, and said, "The elephant is like a wall!" Another brushed against a tusk and said, "The elephant is like a spear!" A third grasped the animal's sturdy leg and said, "The elephant is like a tree!" A fourth laid hands on the ear, and said "The elephant is like a fan!" The fifth found himself holding the elephant's tail, and said "The elephant is like a rope!" And the last took hold of the trunk and said, "The elephant is like a snake!"

The blind men angrily began arguing with one another and beating each other with their canes, trying to suppress each other's heretical opinions -- when all of them were only partly right, and all of them wrong.

So it is with religions. There is no such thing as a true religion, because the truth cannot be told; it's beyond human language. The greatest spiritual teachers, including Jesus, have always understood this. That's why Jesus taught so often in parables.

Islam and Christianity are not the same religion, anymore than either of them is the same as Judaism, although all three of these are in the same related family. But when they say they worship the same God, the best approach is to accept this, and not get hung up on minutiae.

The best approach is to know the truth. Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians or Jews.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Who said anything about anyone being my enemy? What makes you think I am not a real Christian? A real Christian would not dispute the truths in the Bible. A real Christian believes the Bible as the word of God as I do. Just because I dispute some on here doesn't mean I think they are my enemy.

Whether you admit it or not, it's clear in how you type muslims are your enemy and at least on this board you treat them like cow shit.


Exactly the opposite of what Jesus says to do.

I don't treat them like anything, I just state the truth as I see it. Whenever someone persecutes Christians though it is free speech right? That is how some see it. Posters want to post lies on here I just call them out, that is all.

Yes that is free speech, just like you're exercising free speech when you come on here and mock the teachings of Jesus by spewing hate and venom at muslims.

Another one hour a week christian. Pretend you care about what Jesus taught for an hour when you're in front of ppl, then spend the rest of your week taking a dump on the new testament.