CDZ Read this article and tell us we don't need the death penalty...

[TheProgressivePatriot]

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Oh, you are going to invoke fallacy? How about your appeal to ignorance fallacy? I said it so it is true...no need to explain or qualify it. Just accept it. What horseshit!

I am not appealing to ignorance.

Premeditated murder takes an innocent life. The state imposing the death penalty takes one that is not innocent, and is only applied to those whose crimes have taken innocent lives.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and those like you are driven by a primitive, revenge oriented blood lust that flies in the face of the evolving standards of human decency and in defiance of numerous logical, moral and pragmatic reasons why the death penalty is barbaric, and serves no useful purpose other than to vicariously satisfy your own murderous rage and killer instincts

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and those like you are driven by a primitive, revenge oriented blood lust that flies in the face of the evolving standards of human decency and in defiance of numerous logical, moral and pragmatic reasons why the death penalty is barbaric, and serves no useful purpose other than to vicariously satisfy your own murderous rage and killer instincts

My goodness, how very emotional.

The safe space offer is still intact, and I could always sound proof an area to be a rage room for you if you would like.

 

[JoeMoma]

When I as in college decades ago, one of the books I had to read for contemporary lit class was A Clockwork Orange.

The main character was the leader of a gang that would brutally murder and rape people for the fun of it. He also had a love of classical music which he would often listen to while murdering and raping. Anyway, he was caught and put in prison. During this time, the authorities/government reprogrammed him such that he would experience severe pain/anguish if he even thought about committing violence. Then he was released to live in regular society. Problem is that the pain/anguish also carried over to listening to classical music.

I still remember the classroom discussion. The liberal professor and the students doing the talking thought it was horrible that he was reprogrammed against his will. And it was a crime against humanity that he could no longer enjoy classical music.

I thought rehabilitation was what libs wanted. I thought he was getting a great deal rather than being hung or fried in the electric chair like he deserved,

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and those like you are driven by a primitive, revenge oriented blood lust that flies in the face of the evolving standards of human decency and in defiance of numerous logical, moral and pragmatic reasons why the death penalty is barbaric, and serves no useful purpose other than to vicariously satisfy your own murderous rage and killer instincts

My goodness, how very emotional.

The safe space offer is still intact, and I could always sound proof an area to be a rage room for you if you would like.

I understand how it is. When you don't have anything useful to contribute to a topic, all that you can do is resort to being a smart ass who lobs snarky comments.

I'm still waiting for you, or any one here who supports the death penalty to explain in plain English how it benefits society IN ANY WAY, ….how it makes us a safer, more just and civilized nation. All that you have so far is that -according to you- it is "moral" That is not enough of a reason to maintain such a monstrous institution. Tour "eye for and eye" mentality is nothing but biblical bovine excrement.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and those like you are driven by a primitive, revenge oriented blood lust that flies in the face of the evolving standards of human decency and in defiance of numerous logical, moral and pragmatic reasons why the death penalty is barbaric, and serves no useful purpose other than to vicariously satisfy your own murderous rage and killer instincts

My goodness, how very emotional.

The safe space offer is still intact, and I could always sound proof an area to be a rage room for you if you would like.

I understand how it is. When you don't have anything useful to contribute to a topic, all that you can do is resort to being a smart ass who lobs snarky comments.

I'm still waiting for you, or any one here who supports the death penalty to explain in plain English how it benefits society IN ANY WAY, ….how it makes us a safer, more just and civilized nation. All that you have so far is that -according to you- it is "moral" That is not enough of a reason to maintain such a monstrous institution. Tour "eye for and eye" mentality is nothing but biblical bovine excrement.

I already pointed out the fallaciousness of your attempts at moral equivalence.

Your chill pill is overdue.

 

[JoeMoma]

Two reasons for the death penalty:

1. I can be a deterrent. However, it is not much of a deterrent when it takes 20 or more years to exercise the death penalty.
2. Its a rehabilitation tool. Executed criminals commit no more murders.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Two reasons for the death penalty:

1. I can be a deterrent. However, it is not much of a deterrent when it takes 20 or more years to exercise the death penalty.
2. Its a rehabilitation tool. Executed criminals commit no more murders.

It also gives the families of the victims a sense of closure.

It is a terrible thing to endure the murderer could end up walking the streets any day prolongs the pain and keeps it immediate.

Of course, to a "progressive", the pain of the victims does not count. All that counts is their virtue signaling by all their concern for the perps.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and those like you are driven by a primitive, revenge oriented blood lust that flies in the face of the evolving standards of human decency and in defiance of numerous logical, moral and pragmatic reasons why the death penalty is barbaric, and serves no useful purpose other than to vicariously satisfy your own murderous rage and killer instincts

My goodness, how very emotional.

The safe space offer is still intact, and I could always sound proof an area to be a rage room for you if you would like.

I understand how it is. When you don't have anything useful to contribute to a topic, all that you can do is resort to being a smart ass who lobs snarky comments.

I'm still waiting for you, or any one here who supports the death penalty to explain in plain English how it benefits society IN ANY WAY, ….how it makes us a safer, more just and civilized nation. All that you have so far is that -according to you- it is "moral" That is not enough of a reason to maintain such a monstrous institution. Tour "eye for and eye" mentality is nothing but biblical bovine excrement.

I already pointed out the fallaciousness of your attempts at moral equivalence.

Your chill pill is overdue.

Thank for admitting that you can't justify the death penalty on rational, logical, or moral grounds. Revenge driven primitive blood lust is all that you have

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I can be a deterrent. However, it is not much of a deterrent when it takes 20 or more years to exercise the death penalty.

Maybe you would like to adapt the Chinees model of criminal justice. Line up all criminals from petty thieves to corporate crooks to enemies of the state in a stadium and shoot them one at a time in the back of the head. We could do it here in place of the half time show.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Its a rehabilitation tool. Executed criminals commit no more murders.

How to you know that they do not come come back more evil than before. Reincarnation my friend!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It also gives the families of the victims a sense of closure.

Locking them up and throwing away the key will give them closure much more quickly. You do know that there have been cases where the survivors asked the court for leniency, right?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It is a terrible thing to endure the murderer could end up walking the streets any day prolongs the pain and keeps it immediate.

Fix the damned system to prevent that!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Of course, to a "progressive", the pain of the victims does not count. All that counts is their virtue signaling by all their concern for the perps.

More inane equine excrement! This doesn't even make any sense. No concern for the victims?? Who is it that want gun control to keep them from becoming victims in the first place. ? And, who is it that doesn't care if criminals and the insane have easy access to guns? Now tell me again who cares and doesn't care about who.

 

[SeaGal]

It also gives the families of the victims a sense of closure.

Locking them up and throwing away the key will give them closure much more quickly. You do know that there have been cases where the survivors asked the court for leniency, right?

That is often the case, or if not actual leniency, express the willingness to be content with a jury recommended sentence - especially in states where a life sentence means life.

I have been both for and against capital punishment several times in my life.

The final deciding event was serving on a jury for a capital case. Middle-aged businessman with clean record, jilted by lover, premeditated murder of two people, one who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. During sentencing phase the families conducted themselves tearfully, but with dignity and grace. They were simply grateful for the closure, and guilty verdict...made no requests. The sentencing vote was split 6-6, in case of a tie it's Life. Judge pronounces sentence, two Life sentences to be served 'consecutively' - harshest of sentencing. I felt vindicated.

My vote was one of the six for Life - influenced by the families of the victims yes, but also by the 2 young men who sat behind their accused father every day, quiet and sad. He refused to allow them to plead on his behalf during the sentencing phase, so we never heard their voices. Six of us felt those two boys did not deserve to suffer the same awful grief that their father caused two other families. And in Fl, that is enough - a man punished who will die in prison, may he live long, and one family spared the ultimate grief.

On a side note - not all prospective jurors tell the truth when asked their opinion on the death penalty. It is not unheard of, in a death penalty state, for a juror to hold back on a guilty vote - regardless of the weight of evidence because they can't bring themselves to take responsibility for having a man put to death. That is a betrayal of justice, imho.

 

[jwoodie]

Morally, YOUR concept of justice is based on "an eye for an eye," which means that a criminal will not be left better off than his victim .

Not everyone believes that. I don't believe that. WE have to end the cycle of violence, and the death penalty is part of that cycle. We have to be better than the murderer.

In addition, I question whether life in prison under austere conditions with no chance of ever walking free is " leaving the criminal better off.

As usual, you are quick to state what you DON'T believe in, but slow to explain what you DO believe in. What is YOUR concept of justice?

P.S. Your assertion that life imprisonment is worse than death is ridiculous. Why do defendants engage in endless death penalty appeals if this is true?

 

[oldsoul]

Its a rehabilitation tool. Executed criminals commit no more murders.

How to you know that they do not come come back more evil than before. Reincarnation my friend!

You claim that you want arguments based on FACT and demonstrable evidence. And then you post this? Reincarnation? You cannot seriously be arguing against the death penalty on the basis of an unproven (indeed unprovable) THEORY, can you? Also, you do not address the FACT that no dead person has EVER committed ANY crime, let alone a capital crime.

My stance on the death penalty? Keep it. However, it should REQUIRE the highest standard of PROOF. Multiple CREDIBLE witnesses, confession, irrefutable evidence (ie. video of the crime), etc. As far as whether or not it is a deterrent, I don't really care. Anyone who is willing to take a life (with the exception of defence of self or others) is not someone I am willing to allow in society (imprisoned or not). The ONLY way to ensure someone does not commit such a heinous crime as premeditated murder is to end their life.

Furthermore, jurors should be LEGALLY REQUIRED to recuse themselves if the primary reason for questioning guilt is the POTENTIAL sentence, regardless of crime, or sentencing possibilities. Justice MUST remain blind. Therefore, a person who has a moral objection to a potential sentence cannot, by definition, be impartial. I realise, also, that this can be construed as a form of "thought police", and would be extremely difficult to prosecute, and it should be. The two serve as a type of off setting counter-balance to each other. Were I sitting on a jury and the judge said, during instructions, that anyone who has a moral objection to the potential punishment is required to recuse themselves, I would immediately, if that were the case for me. I believe most law abiding people would as well.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You claim that you want arguments based on FACT and demonstrable evidence. And then you post this? Reincarnation? You cannot seriously be arguing against the death penalty on the basis of an unproven (indeed unprovable) THEORY, can you? Also, you do not address the FACT that no dead person has EVER committed ANY crime, let alone a capital crime.

Oh Christ! Seriously? You're going off on me over mentioning reincarnation? I did not say that I believed in it ( although I do not discount it) It was kind of a whimsical thing actually but you jumped on it to avoid any meaningful rebuttal to the actual reasons that I have given or opposing the death penalty.

 

[HenryBHough]

The annual cost of housing, feeding, clothing, providing medical care for an executed criminal is $0.00/year.

Any questions?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

My stance on the death penalty? Keep it. However, it should REQUIRE the highest standard of PROOF. Multiple CREDIBLE witnesses, confession, irrefutable evidence (ie. video of the crime), etc. As far as whether or not it is a deterrent, I don't really care. Anyone who is willing to take a life (with the exception of defence of self or others) is not someone I am willing to allow in society (imprisoned or not). The ONLY way to ensure someone does not commit such a heinous crime as premeditated murder is to end their life.

Yes, I agree that it should require the highest standard of PROOF. Multiple CREDIBLE witnesses, confession, irrefutable evidence. . But even then mistakes could be made, witnesses could lie or prosecutors could engage in misconduct.

You don't care if it is a deterrent? That is sad and disturbing. Killing them is not the only way to ensure that they will not murder again. You're just another blood thirsty radical law and order conservative that totally disregards the damage that the death penalty does to the moral fabric of society and the fact that it adds to the sum total of violence.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The annual cost of housing, feeding, clothing, providing medical care for an executed criminal is $0.00/year.

Any questions?

Idiot!

Cost of death penalty vs life in prison
"The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California's current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.".
Why does the death penalty cost more than life sentence in ...
www.answers.com/Q/Why_does_the_death_penalty_cost_more_than_life_sentence_in_prison