Question for the anti-healthcare crowd

[Centrism'sVoice]

Do you know what the average public school teacher makes?

Very little.

Do you think that wouldn't increase if medical benefits are not provided?

It would increase somewhat. Would the increase be enough, or happen often enough? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

So... "Cash for clunkers" is already 200% over budget, nobody has been paid, 80% of the cars being sold are foreign... add to that -

SSI - BROKE
MEDICARE - BROKE
MEDICAID - BROKE
USPS - BROKE
AMTRAK - BROKE
FANNIE MAE - BROKE
FREDDIE MAC - BROKE.

yeah.. let's turn our healthcare over to these tards

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I do not want my healthcare diluted in order to provide the above with healthcare they never deserved.

Now you want to say that certain people don't deserve health care? Holy crap, you are scarier than you think Obama is.

Even prisons provide healthcare...

If you can afford health insurance but choose not to have it. Like I have chosen. Then they or I deserve whatever comes with that decision. The extremely poor can apply for medicaid. When was the last time you were in prison?

 

[Annie]

Do you know what the average public school teacher makes?

Very little.

Do you think that wouldn't increase if medical benefits are not provided?

It would increase somewhat. Would the increase be enough, or happen often enough? Somehow I doubt it.

Ok, discussion over I guess.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I don't have to call you names: your posts speak for themselves, and they do a great job of insulting you

Yeah, that you are have no argument.. only name calling. Thanks for illustrating it so well. Have a lovely day.

 

[GHook93]

When you depend on profit-making corporations to provide you with care, they are under pressure to make more money every quarter. Which means they either have to raise their prices, cut the quality of their services for the same price, or both.

How is this better than a government-administered service?

While I fall in the UHC crowd more. I can answer this question. See anything the government runs and you will see poor managment, overspending, waste, corruption and things just well fucked up!

However, I don't think this is really one area where the private system is better!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Also.. how much has the government extracted form your checks for your pension which it now says you probably will never receive? HMMM??????

Sure they want control of your healthcare, their best interest is served if you don't live long enough to see retirement!!!

WAKE UP!!!!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

How is this better than a government-administered service?

I'd rather get a service from someone who has an interest in how that service is delivered than some government shlub with a job for life regardless of how the service is provided. Go to the DMV..... isn't that always pleasant? Imagine them deciding your treatment options.

 

[Vanquish]

First of all....we are not "anti-healthcare". We are anti government run healthcare.

Ah, but are you against any reform (gov't or private) of healthcare at all? There's a large group that wants to bury their head in the sand and say there's no problem at all.

The reason is that anything run by the private sector is better than anything the government can run.

Slave to the free market myth, are we? The government runs the military better than Blackwater and Executive Decisions (private mercenaries) ever did.

How many $400 hammer stories do you have to hear?

Yep. The government overspends and wastes money. True. But if you can't admit that government has a valid purpose in society, I'm not sure we can even have a conversation. I'm not exaggerating, you just said EVERYTHING was better when privatized. That's nuts.

Private companies perpetrate fraud all the time. Private companies cause intentional injuries to citizens. Private companies are not the be-all and end-all of perfect management.

This is nothing more than a power grab so the government can provide healthcare to drug dealers, crack whores and illegal aliens in exchange for their votes.

And what then. Surely the votes aren't the end of the road. And you're not being very objective. You dont think there's any wrongdoing by both sides of the political machinery?

I do not want my healthcare diluted in order to provide the above with healthcare they never deserved. There are a few left uncovered that deserve to be covered. Let's tweak the system, not overhaul it and screw it up for those of us that have worked all our lives to to be taken care of in our old age.

So we're back to the "I'm going to have to pay for lazy people!" argument. You realize that the costs of your current healthcare are ALREADY being influenced by "those people" and you'd do better to bring them under the umbrella so you can bring those costs DOWN, right?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Like I said.... go to your local postoffice or DMV... there's your government run healthcare in action. Isn't this the same governemt that gave us $1,000 hammers and toilet seats? Oh, and how'd their last scheme called "affordable housing for all" turn out?
You people can't be that gullible.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

How's your government administered pension plan doing?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So... "Cash for clunkers" is already 200% over budget, nobody has been paid, 80% of the cars being sold are foreign... add to that -

SSI - BROKE
MEDICARE - BROKE
MEDICAID - BROKE
USPS - BROKE
AMTRAK - BROKE
FANNIE MAE - BROKE
FREDDIE MAC - BROKE.

yeah.. let's turn our healthcare over to these tards

Ah the force is strong with you skywalker. You have learned well from observing the government's actions through history's eyes.



The above programs, along with these bad decisions make me feel like i shouldn't trust them either:

1) Out of Control defecit spending
2) Medicare that cost 10x the original estimate
3) Members of congress admitting they wont read the bill
4) Rampant corruption in both parties
5) The congress wrote in an exemption that keeps them from having to partake in any public option

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ti-hr-3200-government-run-care-sound-off.html

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

So... "Cash for clunkers" is already 200% over budget, nobody has been paid, 80% of the cars being sold are foreign... add to that -

SSI - BROKE
MEDICARE - BROKE
MEDICAID - BROKE
USPS - BROKE
AMTRAK - BROKE
FANNIE MAE - BROKE
FREDDIE MAC - BROKE.

yeah.. let's turn our healthcare over to these tards

Ah the force is strong with you skywalker. You have learned well from observing the government's actions through history's eyes.



The above programs, along with these bad decisions make me feel like i shouldn't trust them either:

1) Out of Control defecit spending
2) Medicare that cost 10x the original estimate
3) Members of congress admitting they wont read the bill
4) Rampant corruption in both parties
5) The congress wrote in an exemption that keeps them from having to partake in any public option

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ti-hr-3200-government-run-care-sound-off.html

I've said elsewhere that much of this could be corrected by taking nearly all the money out of campaigns (which would require a constitutional convention), but that's another thread.

Nonetheless, the "don't trust the government" platitude wears thin when that's all there is at the table. You can do better, PP.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

oh i've presented plenty of options that I feel are better than HR3200.

Right now we are talking about the co-op idea http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ti-hr-3200-government-run-care-sound-off.html

 

[GHook93]

So... "Cash for clunkers" is already 200% over budget, nobody has been paid, 80% of the cars being sold are foreign... add to that -

And the cash for clunkers actually did a little to help a collasping industry. I this because I work at a credit agency. The jump in auto dealer credit reports were astromincal!

SSI - BROKE

Broke Yes! But need absolutely!

MEDICARE - BROKE
MEDICAID - BROKE

Funny you would mention these two programs, since these are the 2 programs the rightwingers (who usually bitch about it) are using to shoot down Obamacare. Basically telling the old that Obama wants to take away your medicaid and medicare and you will be knocked off by Obama's death panels! Funny how the right is now using the popularity of these 2 programs amongst old people to its advantage.

You do also realize that Bush Jr was one of the people that actually expanded this program!

USPS - BROKE

Very true, but it could be because of the popularity of online bill pay, paperless transactions (meaning no hard copy mailings), less mass mailings, more internet mailings, banks and credit card companies pushing for online bills and generally just people using the US postal service less! However, performancewise the postal service isn't that bad.

AMTRAK - BROKE

Your talking about trains! I think that is the problem right there!

FANNIE MAE - BROKE
FREDDIE MAC - BROKE

.
Both were private companies that morphed into quasi-government organizations, but they were always private. They became the housing grounds for all the bad mortgages and student loans that were funnelled in via the PRIVATE Industry banks!

 

[Navy1960]

There is a big difference between regulating healthcare costs and Govt. mandated, Govt. run healthcare. One of them can begin the large task of reforming costs in an industry that may bring about affordability to those that need it and want it. The other will result in a historically bloated department in Govt. that will not only further take this nation towards the path of insolvency but will surely have a negative effect on delivery of health services. Look at Medicare as it faces going into the red by the year 2030 and we are looking to add an additional 50 million people almost instantly to Govt. healthcare rolls and this does not include the addition of baby boomers that are being added at an ever increasing rate with no clear way to fund this other than actually cutting medicare by 500 billion dollars, now that's a Govt. program. All this spending will eventually need to be paid back and rather than spending perhaps the best solution is to actually do the hard work needed to legislate the business of healthcare rather than mandate coverage through a Govt. run healthcare program.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

There is a big difference between regulating healthcare costs and Govt. mandated, Govt. run healthcare. One of them can begin the large task of reforming costs in an industry that may bring about affordability to those that need it and want it. The other will result in a historically bloated department in Govt. ...

Apparently the town hallers don't even seem to want to regulate costs. Or at least that's what Glen O'Limbaugh-Hannity said.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I am all for a WalMart style delivery system for health care as mentioned by Huckabee....costs would be lowered and everyday health care would become a smorgasboard available at low cost to everyone...yet innovation can still freely exist and those who wanted to pay for the more expensive options could do so. Other than major medical catastrophic insurance (which could be very low in cost) we have NO REAL NEED for insurance companies or government bureaucrats or employers telling us and our doctors what to do or what kind of medical services we should have... everybody should be able to buy his own health care services just as he would buy an automobile or auto insurance.

And where does this leave, for example, a public school teacher who gets cancer?

It leaves the teacher just fine with plenty of coverage as long as she has bought major medical insurance. That's what catastrophic insurance is - covering yourself for those unexpected high costs that might happen.

When you leave out insurance coverage for all the other minor stuff - the cost of major medical coverage is brought way down. This might possibly be something to make mandatory just like minimal auto insurance is mandatory in order to provide a large enough pool. This coverage should not be employer-based but individual-based...just like with your auto insurance...therefore portable no matter where you live or what job you have or don't have.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

I am all for a WalMart style delivery system for health care as mentioned by Huckabee....costs would be lowered and everyday health care would become a smorgasboard available at low cost to everyone...yet innovation can still freely exist and those who wanted to pay for the more expensive options could do so. Other than major medical catastrophic insurance (which could be very low in cost) we have NO REAL NEED for insurance companies or government bureaucrats or employers telling us and our doctors what to do or what kind of medical services we should have... everybody should be able to buy his own health care services just as he would buy an automobile or auto insurance.

And where does this leave, for example, a public school teacher who gets cancer?

It leaves the teacher just fine with plenty of coverage as long as she has bought major medical insurance. That's what catastrophic insurance is - covering yourself for those unexpected high costs that might happen.

When you leave out insurance coverage for all the other minor stuff - the cost of major medical coverage is brought way down. This might possibly be something to make mandatory just like minimal auto insurance is mandatory in order to provide a large enough pool. This coverage should not be employer-based but individual-based...just like with your auto insurance...therefore portable no matter where you live or what job you have or don't have.

Some examples from an unbiased source would help your case at this point.

 

[sandeeep]

O so nice...........