Question about basic training

[Gunny]

My nephew started basic training just a few weeks ago. We're not a military family, so he doesn't have it in his blood, but I guess he wanted to join up so he did. We expected him to do just fine, he's physically capable and bright and gave the decision a lot of thought.

We got word that he is being separated at the entry level and will be home in a couple weeks. Two questions:

1. Mainly, we're worried for him that this will be hugely demoralizing. So, what would be most helpful for us to do? Any advice is welcome. he does have a serious girlfriend waiting for him here at home, so maybe she will end up being the main thing he comes back to.

2. What do you think the reasoning is for this from the military perspective? So soon after joining up, is this sort of thing more likely poor performance on his part or a general recognition that he's not cut out for it? Why are most of these things done? Could he sort of have requested this?

thanks guys,
-caligirl

Do you know the circumstances behind his separation and the characteristic of his discharge?

By law, he can only be separated with a General Under Honorable conditions at the entry level.

 

[geauxtohell]

My nephew started basic training just a few weeks ago. We're not a military family, so he doesn't have it in his blood, but I guess he wanted to join up so he did. We expected him to do just fine, he's physically capable and bright and gave the decision a lot of thought.

We got word that he is being separated at the entry level and will be home in a couple weeks. Two questions:

1. Mainly, we're worried for him that this will be hugely demoralizing. So, what would be most helpful for us to do? Any advice is welcome. he does have a serious girlfriend waiting for him here at home, so maybe she will end up being the main thing he comes back to.

2. What do you think the reasoning is for this from the military perspective? So soon after joining up, is this sort of thing more likely poor performance on his part or a general recognition that he's not cut out for it? Why are most of these things done? Could he sort of have requested this?

thanks guys,
-caligirl

Do you know the circumstances behind his separation and the characteristic of his discharge?

By law, he can only be separated with a General Under Honorable conditions at the entry level.

That's good to know. I was never involved with any aspect of basic training, but I think it's unfair to slap a kid who couldn't hack it with an OTH discharge and give him/her a black mark for the rest of their life.

Good to know that there is some protection for them under the law.

Just my $.02

 

[Gunny]

Do you know the circumstances behind his separation and the characteristic of his discharge?

By law, he can only be separated with a General Under Honorable conditions at the entry level.

That's good to know. I was never involved with any aspect of basic training, but I think it's unfair to slap a kid who couldn't hack it with an OTH discharge and give him/her a black mark for the rest of their life.

Good to know that there is some protection for them under the law.

Just my $.02

Entry level military are protected for the first two years of service. There is quite a bit of ignorance, even in the military about it. I had to sit on a court martial once and bothered to read the law because they were trying to kick a kid out with a General Under Other Than Honorable when his "crime" was, IMO, the fault of his superiors.

He was a contract E-3 with a year of active duty and given too much responsibility for someone his age with his experience. They just looked at his rank and decided he should know better. That's one BIG problem I have with giving rank to boots.

 

[Terry]

Washing out of Basic Training isn't really bad, for you have to realize that to some it is such a shock to all they know and they just decided to hell with it and want out.

 

[midcan5]

One of my most strong memories of basic was the breakdown of a youth who seemed to possess a great deal more sense and strength than the rest of us grunts. In a few weeks he was reduced to a stuttering shell. I actually ended up having to help him to mess, and he came from a military family. Basic can break a person and if you have a hard core DI it can be worse. I still remember the Sergeant's name and heard he was busted for breaking someones collar bone after we passed through hell.

The key of course is the person, how they react, the military just like other stressful indoctrinations is not for everyone. When you are a immature kid and someone is screaming in your face there is no place to go. We had several discharged. I know policemen who quit too under the stress of what they see in a big city. My best advice would be to treat it as one step in life, you gave it a shot, not for everyone, etc and make sure there is not withdrawal or depression. Come back and let us know how it goes.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Some can

Some Can't

Some should

Some shouldn't

I wouldn't worry about it as an administrative discharge won't hurt him any in civilian life. As far as why it happened you'll just have to be contented to ask him when you see him.

 

[Caligirl]

lots of interesting feedback.

Gunny, what I read on the web (and some military sites) was that ELS was "neither honorable nor dishonorable" in other words too soon to make a statement of the nature of his 'service' (I suspect it isn't fair to call 3 weeks of BT 'service' but I don't know the right words.)

Anyway, now I wonder whick is correct. if there is a legal requirement to separate him under 'general under honorable' I am sure that would be better for him and his mom in the short term to come to terms with this.

I think you're all right - not for everybody, move on....

 

[SFC Ollie]

lots of interesting feedback.

Gunny, what I read on the web (and some military sites) was that ELS was "neither honorable nor dishonorable" in other words too soon to make a statement of the nature of his 'service' (I suspect it isn't fair to call 3 weeks of BT 'service' but I don't know the right words.)

Anyway, now I wonder whick is correct. if there is a legal requirement to separate him under 'general under honorable' I am sure that would be better for him and his mom in the short term to come to terms with this.

I think you're all right - not for everybody, move on....

I was the operations Sergeant for an Army training company. An Administrative discharge in the Army is exactly that; Administrative, it is not general , Honorable or other, simply administrative. Can't speak for the marines but the USMJ is the UCMJ.

 

[Article 15]

It really depends on why he washed out, Cali. Granted it was Air Force basic training but I saw guys get sent home for failing the drug test they give you upon arrival, refusal to train (attitude), unable to meet physical requirements, and going bat shit insane due to stress (those two were scary).

The circumstances dictate how to handle him on his return.

 

[Caligirl]

Would they tell the families if it was drug related or bat-shit insane related?

 

[Article 15]

Would they tell the families if it was drug related or bat-shit insane related?

I don't know, Cali. Gunny, being a former Drill Instructor, would prolly know the answer to that.

 

[Gunny]

lots of interesting feedback.

Gunny, what I read on the web (and some military sites) was that ELS was "neither honorable nor dishonorable" in other words too soon to make a statement of the nature of his 'service' (I suspect it isn't fair to call 3 weeks of BT 'service' but I don't know the right words.)

Anyway, now I wonder whick is correct. if there is a legal requirement to separate him under 'general under honorable' I am sure that would be better for him and his mom in the short term to come to terms with this.

I think you're all right - not for everybody, move on....

The discharge is General Under Honorable Conditions. The reason on his paperwork would more than likely be failure to adapt to military life, or something to that effect.

 

[Gunny]

lots of interesting feedback.

Gunny, what I read on the web (and some military sites) was that ELS was "neither honorable nor dishonorable" in other words too soon to make a statement of the nature of his 'service' (I suspect it isn't fair to call 3 weeks of BT 'service' but I don't know the right words.)

Anyway, now I wonder whick is correct. if there is a legal requirement to separate him under 'general under honorable' I am sure that would be better for him and his mom in the short term to come to terms with this.

I think you're all right - not for everybody, move on....

I was the operations Sergeant for an Army training company. An Administrative discharge in the Army is exactly that; Administrative, it is not general , Honorable or other, simply administrative. Can't speak for the marines but the USMJ is the UCMJ.

The actual discharge still has to be one of the five. Honorable, General Under Honorable, General Under Other than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and/or Dishonorable, whether or not it is administrative or punitive.

 

[Gunny]

Would they tell the families if it was drug related or bat-shit insane related?

The families have no right to his record.

 

[Zona]

he does have to impress nice guys like this. mine was an SOB


[youtube]4o7oKQECBjs[/youtube]

Now choke yourself!.....Loved that movie.

There are so many reasons a person cant or wont make it thru basic. Physical, mental, emotional.....

Some peole just cant handle being told what to do. Some cant handle the physical aspect some get seriously home sic (I was amazed how many times I witnessed this).

I suggest the op talk to this kid and ask him.

 

[AllieBaba]

The other thing is that in the couple times he talked to my sis on the phone over the past couple weeks he gave a good report. Enjoying himself, physically exhausted, loving the change from civilian life -

but he's not always honest with her, and that's where my heart goes out, that he was putting on a front, and having such an awful time. My memories of this kid are from when he was like three and four and five - and was the happiest kid, would wake up singing, would crawl into bed and snuggle with you in the morning - I mean he did grow into a teenager eventually but I hate to think of such a basic sweetheart being treated like shit.

Ah well. Probably work out for the best in the end, maybe he'll get that college degree and go on to something great.

If he is being dropped at the entry level, there is a specific reason. Basically, one can just refuse to train and they will be processed. Unless he has committed a felony (which I doubt or you would know and he wouldn't be getting just processed out), the only discharge they can give him is general under honorable conditions.

There are lots of reasons to get put out. I've broken recruits just getting in their faces. Some people can't take it.

It will affect him only if he lets it. Failure is not good for the psyche. If he quit, I doubt he'll have that much problem with it. If he just couldn't make it, he wouldn't be getting processed this soon because the Drill Instructors and RTR will make EVERY effort to keep a recruit as long as that recruit keeps trying.

Do we know for sure it's not a physical reason?

My oldest boy couldn't get into the service because he had psoriasis. If he hadn't been diagnosed with it as a teen, they would have caught it sometime later, automatic bye-bye, it's a condition that automatically makes you ineligible. Same thing with seizure disorder, lucky boy, mine had both.

He wouldn't tell me that was it, either. I found out much later, after researching it. He really wanted to join up right out of school, and they were pumped about it, and all of a sudden it was like, "Nope, that's not going to work out.."

I mean it was like he thought I didn't know what his medical conditions were that he found it impossible to tell me?

Anyway. Kids. What can I say.

 

[namvet]

if you can get thru those first 3 or 4 weeks more than likely you'll make it

 

[Gunny]

if you can get thru those first 3 or 4 weeks more than likely you'll make it

Usually. Some break under the accumulated stress after that. Rifle range and field training goes weeks 4-8 in the Corps. You make THAT and you can get through.

 

[namvet]

if you can get thru those first 3 or 4 weeks more than likely you'll make it

Usually. Some break under the accumulated stress after that. Rifle range and field training goes weeks 4-8 in the Corps. You make THAT and you can get through.

I only wighted about 125 lbs when i went in. they made me fire a 50 cal BAR that almost buired me. the recoil slammed me back into an instructor who i almost knocked down. i was PT'd the rest of day. and i thought this was the end of my ass.

 

[Caligirl]

What is PT'd?