Public pensions are eating taxpayers alive

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You know this is a problem when even high profile Democrats are complaining about this, being that they are the reason most of this exists in the first place via public sector vote buying.

Everywhere, the writing is on the wall. In San Jose, reported The Washington Post recently, “the roads are pocked with potholes, the libraries are closed three days a week, and a slew of city recreation centers have been handed over to nonprofit groups.” Taxes have been raised, public services cut, and the number of city employees drastically reduced. Yet annual retirement payouts for public-sector workers continue to climb, thanks to lavish pensions that enrich municipal retirees with as much as 90 percent of their former salaries — and court decisions barring pension benefits for public-sector employees from being rolled back.

The result, in San Jose and across the country, is the “startling injustice” of poor and working-class taxpayers forced to make do with less and less so that the gold-plated pensions of public-sector retirees, which already gobble an outsize share of government budgets, can keep devouring more and more.

Public pensions are eating taxpayers alive - Opinion - The Boston Globe

 

[Mr. H.]

More than $4 trillion. LOL

At least $130 billion in Illinois alone.

 

[SteadyMercury]

My wife works for the city and can retire with a full pension and healthcare at 80 points (age+service) so that would be 52 years old. Why should taxpayers pay for someone to just stop working 15 years earlier than everyone else, when she will likely be entering her best years as a productive employee?

It is fucking nuts, hell we can personally reap the benefits of it and I still think it is fucking nuts.

They've made a few reforms lately like 85 points and (I think) a minimum age of 55 but most are grandfathered in and even the reforms are still so stupidly out of wack with reality.

 

[MaxGrit]

Hard to tax them?

 

[gipper]

Like everything the Left controls, they ultimately destroy it.

Public employee salaries, benefits, and pensions are a major problem nationwide. But, little will be done to control it. The Ds get too many votes from this racket.

However, look at what the Wisconsin governor did. And for it, he was demonized and they tried to recall him. Few pols are willing to confront the union/D party horde, as he did.

 

[The Rabbi]

California is trying to pass a law that allows pension obligations to survive bankruptcy. That's insane. Then again, Democrats are all about looting working people to pay for non working people.

 

[Toro]

More than $4 trillion. LOL

At least $130 billion in Illinois alone.

The $4 trillion number is an exaggeration generally rejected by actuaries. From a link in the article.

Using a different method of accounting for unfunded state pension liabilities, a recent report from Pew Charitable Trusts estimated the gap between states’ assets and obligations at around $750 billion.

Taxpayers On the Hook for Trillions in Unfunded State Pension Liabilities - Reason.com

The Pew numbers are more reflective of what is generally accepted in the pension world.

It's also a hypothetical. What it means is that if all pensions had to be liquidated today, a payment of $750 billion would have to be paid out. But of course, all pensions will not be liquidated today.

That isn't to diminish the problems of some jurisdictions such as San Jose. There are going to be more stories like that.

What there will also be are stories 20-30 years from now are seniors who were switched out of defined contribution plans into 401k-type plans who will be on government assistance because they will find out that what they saved will not be anywhere near what they thought they would need or would have received in defined benefit plans.

 

[DriftingSand]

My older brother retired at an early age from a southern California city-run power company. His wife worked for the same city for the school district's janitorial service. Together they live "high on the hog." They have the nice house on the hill; swimming pool; Harley motorcycles; new cars every year or two; you get the picture. They're set for life. I have nothing against their success but I had no idea that their pensions were funded by tax dollars. I was under the impression that they were living on money that had been placed in a 401k or IRA.

 

[gipper]

My older brother retired at an early age from a southern California city-run power company. His wife worked for the same city for the school district's janitorial service. Together they live "high on the hog." They have the nice house on the hill; swimming pool; Harley motorcycles; new cars every year or two; you get the picture. They're set for life. I have nothing against their success but I had no idea that their pensions were funded by tax dollars. I was under the impression that they were living on money that had been placed in a 401k or IRA.

Yes...and do they vote D?

And let's not forget the old double dip.
NY audit finds public employees double-dipping | New York Post

Very common with p-ees.

Plus they often are abusing overtime to garner huge salaries...doing very little.
https://www.google.com/#q=public+employees+abusing+overtime

How nice!

 

[Iceweasel]

We always hear about the 1%ers greed, money that isn't ours, but never public sector greed. They are payed MUCH better than their private sector counterparts and have much better benefits. On our dime. This phenomenom has been exploding in Europe so we know how it will end. We will run out of other people's money and have to cut back. That's when the government dependants are going to go ape shit. It will be like junkies going cold turkey.

 

[Toro]

My older brother retired at an early age from a southern California city-run power company. His wife worked for the same city for the school district's janitorial service. Together they live "high on the hog." They have the nice house on the hill; swimming pool; Harley motorcycles; new cars every year or two; you get the picture. They're set for life. I have nothing against their success but I had no idea that their pensions were funded by tax dollars. I was under the impression that they were living on money that had been placed in a 401k or IRA.

The pensions are deferred compensation then invested over time. A typical government employee will have 8%-10% of their compensation put into an investment fund then paid out when they retire.

Problems arise when governments (and corporations) make promises they cannot or refuse to keep, then they are on the hook for those promises that aren't met. Often times, this is because of cronyism between unions and political parties. Some of the abuses, such as "spiking" - where workers ratch up as much overtime as possible in their last year to get the highest benefit payment - are egregious, and people have a right to be upset. But sometimes its because during boom years, politicians choose to cut taxes rather than make payments into the fund as they had promised.

 

[eflatminor]

Public pensions are eating taxpayers alive

Which is exactly why that right winger FDR was staunchly against the idea of public sector unions.

But today's Progressives know better...

 

[Toro]

We always hear about the 1%ers greed, money that isn't ours, but never public sector greed. They are payed MUCH better than their private sector counterparts and have much better benefits. On our dime. This phenomenom has been exploding in Europe so we know how it will end. We will run out of other people's money and have to cut back. That's when the government dependants are going to go ape shit. It will be like junkies going cold turkey.

Adjusted for education, government workers are generally not paid better than in the private sector. That is absolutely true in the professions. I've worked for government, and we would have a very hard time attracting talent because the private sector paid way more. It's generally true, however, that unskilled labor gets paid better in government.

 

[rightwinger]

Your retirement benefits are part of your total compensation package

Workers spent a career working with an understanding that they would be paid X amount and if they stayed on the job, their retirement would be Y amount

Can't change the rules after the benefit has already been earned

 

[DGS49]

You can't blame the unions or the employees for getting as much as possible from their employers.

It has long been known that granting collective bargaining in the public sector is the road to perdition, and yet, starting with JFK, Democrats have seen this initiative as an easy way to BUY the votes of the government employees and their dependents. In most major Eastern cities (virtually all controlled by Dems), 20-25% of the electorate either works directly for local government or is supported by someone who works for local government. And they ALL vote D. That is enough to determine the outcome of virtually every election.

And yet, even now the solutions are easily within our grasp. Eliminate early retirements for all but those who are required to be physically fit (police, Fire fighters), and have everyone else retire according to the SS schedule (62 or later, with monthly payments reduced accordingly). Eliminate the provisions that allow employees to load up with overtime during their last years to inflate their retirement checks. Base pay, period.

If the Federal Government can "adjust" SS any time it wants (as confirmed by the USSC), then surely the government of Fresno, CA can make adjustments to keep it from going bankrupt.

 

[Iceweasel]

Adjusted for education, government workers are generally not paid better than in the private sector. That is absolutely true in the professions. I've worked for government, and we would have a very hard time attracting talent because the private sector paid way more. It's generally true, however, that unskilled labor gets paid better in government.

When was that? If you are talking about the last four years I don't believe you. The private sector has taking a beating while the public sector has increased pay and bennies. I don't know what you mean by adjusted for education, I wa scomparing job to job. Does it require more education for the public sector employee to do the same job?

 

[Toro]

Adjusted for education, government workers are generally not paid better than in the private sector. That is absolutely true in the professions. I've worked for government, and we would have a very hard time attracting talent because the private sector paid way more. It's generally true, however, that unskilled labor gets paid better in government.

When was that? If you are talking about the last four years I don't believe you. The private sector has taking a beating while the public sector has increased pay and bennies. I don't know what you mean by adjusted for education, I wa scomparing job to job. Does it require more education for the public sector employee to do the same job?

I'll post the studies later. If you compare compensation for low skilled positions, ie a janitor, the janitor gets paid more in government. But if you look at skilled labor, ie a lawyer, accountant or an IT professional, the private sector pays more.

Government has taken more of a hit than the private sector the last few years. In 2013, government spending declined by 1% while the private sector rose by about 3%. That's total government, not just federal government.

Only 10% of all government workers are federal government workers. The rest are state or local. And something like 40% of those workers are employed in education.

 

[bedowin62]

Adjusted for education, government workers are generally not paid better than in the private sector. That is absolutely true in the professions. I've worked for government, and we would have a very hard time attracting talent because the private sector paid way more. It's generally true, however, that unskilled labor gets paid better in government.

When was that? If you are talking about the last four years I don't believe you. The private sector has taking a beating while the public sector has increased pay and bennies. I don't know what you mean by adjusted for education, I wa scomparing job to job. Does it require more education for the public sector employee to do the same job?

I'll post the studies later. If you compare compensation for low skilled positions, ie a janitor, the janitor gets paid more in government. But if you look at skilled labor, ie a lawyer, accountant or an IT professional, the private sector pays more.

Government has taken more of a hit than the private sector the last few years. In 2013, government spending declined by 1% while the private sector rose by about 3%. That's total government, not just federal government.

Only 10% of all government workers are federal government workers. The rest are state or local. And something like 40% of those workers are employed in education.

federal government spending has increased under obama

 

[The Rabbi]

Your retirement benefits are part of your total compensation package

Workers spent a career working with an understanding that they would be paid X amount and if they stayed on the job, their retirement would be Y amount

Can't change the rules after the benefit has already been earned

People in Hell want ice water.
When the good of one group threatens the solvency of everyone else, including that group, choices must be made.

 

[Iceweasel]

I'll post the studies later. If you compare compensation for low skilled positions, ie a janitor, the janitor gets paid more in government. But if you look at skilled labor, ie a lawyer, accountant or an IT professional, the private sector pays more.

Government has taken more of a hit than the private sector the last few years. In 2013, government spending declined by 1% while the private sector rose by about 3%. That's total government, not just federal government.

Only 10% of all government workers are federal government workers. The rest are state or local. And something like 40% of those workers are employed in education.

A prosecutor will of course be limited to a set income and a private sector attorney could make much more depending on his gig. Suing Walmart and winning will skew those numbers and isn't exactly the same job. There are many different kinds of attorneys. Government spending declining 1% doesn't mean much since it could be downsizing the work force to downsizing budgets for anything but wages and benefits. Similarly, private increases don't mean it's going into the pockets of employees.