Proposed Iranian Law on Marrying One's Adopted Child......

[MHunterB]

Iran lawmakers pass bill allowing men to marry adopted daughters | World news | theguardian.com

"Parliamentarians in Iran have passed a bill to protect the rights of children which includes a clause that allows a man to marry his adopted daughter and while she is as young as 13 years.

Activists have expressed alarm that the bill, approved by parliament on Sunday, opens the door for the caretaker of a family to marry his or her adopted child if a court rules it is in the interests of the individual child.

Iran's Guardian Council, a body of clerics and jurists which vets all parliamentary bills before the constitution and the Islamic law, has yet to issue its verdict on the controversial legislation......"

Now this bill hasn't been 'ratified' by the clerics yet - but the fact that there was enough support for it to pass to begin with suggests it has a degree of support.

Actually, the most upsetting sentence in the entire article, IMO, was this one: "Execution of juvenile offenders in Iran has also been in spotlight in recent years amid confusion between the age of majority – when minors cease to be legally considered children – and the minimum age of criminal responsibility, which is 15 for boys and nine for girls under Iranian law.

 

[Hollie]

It’s NOT AT ALL clear to me that what’s happening anywhere in the Middle East (and the Iranian Dark Agers may be the worst of the lot), has any kind of potential to disgorge anything democratic, rational, or un-Islamic. For the past 150 years while the rest of the world has been scrambling to rationalize politics, society, and economics, the Arabs and Persian Iranians have been firmly in the grip of autocracy and Islamist retrogression.

Where enlightened efforts were previously made in Turkey, Iran, and even Afghanistan to break free of the mullahcrats, those nations have been or are being dragged back to the archetypical Islamic sand farm. One way or another, a Muslim state that purports to “modernize” can be likened to a satellite in a degrading orbit around the earth – huge, huge effort to get up there in the first place but inevitable failure down range.

In-ev-i-ta-ble.

 

[Rct_Tsoul]

In Islamic culture, you must be a virgin to be suitable for marriage, and since most female child adoptions in the middle east result in the girl being used as a PLASTIC FUCK DOLL upon the moment of arrival, it is for the best, nobody is going to ask for the hand of marriage from a woman that grew up in a foster home .............. her breathe probably still smells like CUM.

 

[sambino510]

This is a bit off topic, I admit, but at least Iran "proposes" or "votes" on laws. At least they are, technically speaking, a democracy, despite whatever influence Ayatollah Khamenei has. Other U.S. allies, such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and others, are still ruled by nepotistic royal families. Egypt would also be on this list of monarchic/dictatorial U.S. allies if not for the Arab Spring, which we went along with to save face. Yet, we never bring up their backwards ways in the discussion of Islamic culture, because we don't want to rock the boat and ruin our military and trade deals with them. I'll be the first to say that Iran has many strange or immoral practices, but the double standard has to stop some day.

Also, as we (most of us who I assume are American) analyze these other countries, we must remember that there is no strict "right" way of doing things. That is, just because the Western world doesn't allow men to marry their adopted daughters, that doesn't mean other countries around the world don't behave in such a way. Not only that, but who are we to say that our way is morally superior? That's the definition of ethnocentrism.

 

[Sunni Man]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

 

[sambino510]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

I'd say he's more of a director than an actor, and the fact he's Jewish is irrelevant, but I would argue that yes, that is a very similar case. And there are many cases of Americans getting married to questionable people, whether family members or otherwise. Several actors, some in their 60s or 70s, are married to women in their 20s, for instance.

 

[Sunni Man]

I'd say he's more of a director than an actor, and the fact he's Jewish is irrelevant, but I would argue that yes, that is a very similar case. And there are many cases of Americans getting married to questionable people, whether family members or otherwise.

Since he is a jew no one will say anything for fear they will be called anti-semitic.

It's the juden stay out of jail card. ..

 

[Hossfly]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

Do we even know if in the Muslim world that the Muslims don't marry all three or four of their adopted daughters? Maybe Sunni Man can pull up some stuff for us about adoptions in the Muslim world, especially when they are little girls and not grownups. As an aside, Sunni Man would have made a good S.S. man. He can't restrain himself from calling the Jews Juden just like the Nazis did.

 

[sambino510]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

Do we even know if in the Muslim world that the Muslims don't marry all three or four of their adopted daughters? Maybe Sunni Man can pull up some stuff for us about adoptions in the Muslim world, especially when they are little girls and not grownups. As an aside, Sunni Man would have made a good S.S. man. He can't restrain himself from calling the Jews Juden just like the Nazis did.

First off, I agree that Juden is more-or-less a derogatory term towards Jews, and should not be used due to its obvious connotations. Secondly, your view is that Muslims are worse than Woody Allen because they marry several adopted daughters while he only married one. I disagree with this because the amount is irrelevant; the idea is still that marrying your adopted daughter is okay, whether its one daughter or one thousand daughters. Also, the girl Woody Allen adopted was 8 at the time of adoption, and then later became married to Woody Allen. So, she was indeed a little girl, just like the hypothetical Muslim little girls you bring up. I'm not familiar with how adoptions work in the Muslim world, but I don't think your argument as to why their ways are morally inferior is valid.

As my own personal aside, having had an Indian girlfriend previously whose parents were an arranged marriage, India has a number of questionable marriage practices as well, so let's not pretend this problem is unique to the Muslim world.

 

[Indofred]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

Will you stop doing that, please.

This is a perfectly good anti Muslim thread so I must insist you stop ruining it with little facts like, Americans have actually done this whilst Iranian law only allows it.

 

[sambino510]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

Will you stop doing that, please.

This is a perfectly good anti Muslim thread so I must insist you stop ruining it with little facts like, Americans have actually done this whilst Iranian law only allows it.

Yes, it's always a nuisance when people ruin biased, one-sided threads with "facts".

An important part of intellectual discussion is self-reflection. Meaning, analyzing our own culture in comparison to the culture of others. That's all we were attempting to do.

Though frankly I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic, as you seem to promote "peace, love and understanding", and thus would be unlikely to promote anti-Muslim behavior. So, I apologize if you were not being serious. Either way, I think bringing up Americans as an example is a valid argument.

 

[Hossfly]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

Do we even know if in the Muslim world that the Muslims don't marry all three or four of their adopted daughters? Maybe Sunni Man can pull up some stuff for us about adoptions in the Muslim world, especially when they are little girls and not grownups. As an aside, Sunni Man would have made a good S.S. man. He can't restrain himself from calling the Jews Juden just like the Nazis did.

First off, I agree that Juden is more-or-less a derogatory term towards Jews, and should not be used due to its obvious connotations. Secondly, your view is that Muslims are worse than Woody Allen because they marry several adopted daughters while he only married one. I disagree with this because the amount is irrelevant; the idea is still that marrying your adopted daughter is okay, whether its one daughter or one thousand daughters. Also, the girl Woody Allen adopted was 8 at the time of adoption, and then later became married to Woody Allen. So, she was indeed a little girl, just like the hypothetical Muslim little girls you bring up. I'm not familiar with how adoptions work in the Muslim world, but I don't think your argument as to why their ways are morally inferior is valid.

As my own personal aside, having had an Indian girlfriend previously whose parents were an arranged marriage, India has a number of questionable marriage practices as well, so let's not pretend this problem is unique to the Muslim world.

I have no objection to someone marrying a female he adopted (no matter what age he adopted her) as long as that person is of age and knows her own mind regardless of the religion of both parties (although this is something I would never consider doing myself). However, when young girls are married off to an adopted father and they have no say in this, then I would object and tell the man to wait until the female was of an age where she could think for herself. However, I think we all realize that there are many kooks in Hollywood, so Woody Allen is really a bad example to bring up, and the only reason he was brought up by Sunni Man is because he is Jewish and gave Sunni Man an opportunity to throw out "Juden" once again. Do you really think that Sunni Man would have said anything if it happened to be a Muslim director or producer marrying his adopted daughter?

 

[sambino510]

Do we even know if in the Muslim world that the Muslims don't marry all three or four of their adopted daughters? Maybe Sunni Man can pull up some stuff for us about adoptions in the Muslim world, especially when they are little girls and not grownups. As an aside, Sunni Man would have made a good S.S. man. He can't restrain himself from calling the Jews Juden just like the Nazis did.

First off, I agree that Juden is more-or-less a derogatory term towards Jews, and should not be used due to its obvious connotations. Secondly, your view is that Muslims are worse than Woody Allen because they marry several adopted daughters while he only married one. I disagree with this because the amount is irrelevant; the idea is still that marrying your adopted daughter is okay, whether its one daughter or one thousand daughters. Also, the girl Woody Allen adopted was 8 at the time of adoption, and then later became married to Woody Allen. So, she was indeed a little girl, just like the hypothetical Muslim little girls you bring up. I'm not familiar with how adoptions work in the Muslim world, but I don't think your argument as to why their ways are morally inferior is valid.

As my own personal aside, having had an Indian girlfriend previously whose parents were an arranged marriage, India has a number of questionable marriage practices as well, so let's not pretend this problem is unique to the Muslim world.

I have no objection to someone marrying a female he adopted (no matter what age he adopted her) as long as that person is of age and knows her own mind regardless of the religion of both parties (although this is something I would never consider doing myself). However, when young girls are married off to an adopted father and they have no say in this, then I would object and tell the man to wait until the female was of an age where she could think for herself. However, I think we all realize that there are many kooks in Hollywood, so Woody Allen is really a bad example to bring up, and the only reason he was brought up by Sunni Man is because he is Jewish and gave Sunni Man an opportunity to throw out "Juden" once again. Do you really think that Sunni Man would have said anything if it happened to be a Muslim director or producer marrying his adopted daughter?

Perhaps he wouldn't bring it up if he was a Muslim, but assuming such is only widening the divide between us. That's all I'm trying to get across. I, too, share your views that a girl should be of age (18) before being married off. However, "being of age" is viewed differently in different cultures, and thus I don't think I have a right to tell other countries what it means to "be of age". All we can hope is that the people of that particular society eventually reform, but that is still their choice to make, and they should not be subject to our biased interpretation of right and wrong.

 

[Indofred]

Yes, it's always a nuisance when people ruin biased, one-sided threads with "facts".

An important part of intellectual discussion is self-reflection. Meaning, analyzing our own culture in comparison to the culture of others. That's all we were attempting to do.

Though frankly I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic, as you seem to promote "peace, love and understanding", and thus would be unlikely to promote anti-Muslim behavior. So, I apologize if you were not being serious. Either way, I think bringing up Americans as an example is a valid argument.

It wasn't just Americans, more several people from and in a variety of non Muslim countries in order to demonstrate "honour killing" is a world wide problem, not just a Muslim thing as many idiots want us to believe.
Of course, some Muslims do this and there's no argument to that, but targeting one group isn't going to do any good as far as stopping this violence against women is concerned.

 

[MHunterB]

As the OP, I can tell you I didn't start this thread for any 'anti-Muslim' purpose. This is essentially a move by some in Iran to legalize child abuse on several levels - and it has NOTHING to do with religion.

Sunni wants to act like he's got pigshit for brains, and Fred has done his best to abet the asinine vulgarity and filth, supporting the baiting efforts.

I'm sad that neither of you is willing or able to take the topic seriously. I honestly DID expect responsible adults of whatever faith to read the article and examine the concerns voiced by the children's advocates.

Apparently neither one of you is actually a responsible adult - regardless of your boasting that you submit to GOD's Will. I do not believe it is His will that children should be so completely at the mercy of adoptive parents......

 

[MHunterB]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

I'd say he's more of a director than an actor, and the fact he's Jewish is irrelevant, but I would argue that yes, that is a very similar case. And there are many cases of Americans getting married to questionable people, whether family members or otherwise. Several actors, some in their 60s or 70s, are married to women in their 20s, for instance.

Sambino, I agree - and I found it disgusting at the time. It's similar to the several instances of adult women teachers instigating sexual relationships with young teen male students: it's an abuse of a child by an adult in a position of authority, and it's reprehensible.

When adoption or foster parenting is involved, it's also incest.

 

[Sunni Man]

As the OP, I can tell you I didn't start this thread for any 'anti-Muslim' purpose. This is essentially a move by some in Iran to legalize child abuse on several levels - and it has NOTHING to do with religion.

Yea, sure, we believe you..............................................................................Not .

 

[MHunterB]

As the OP, I can tell you I didn't start this thread for any 'anti-Muslim' purpose. This is essentially a move by some in Iran to legalize child abuse on several levels - and it has NOTHING to do with religion.

Yea, sure, we believe you..............................................................................Not .

Your being Muslim doesn't have a thing to do with my finding you disgusting. You're just a vile vulgar troll, as I'm sure you were all along.

Too bad you're intent on promoting bigotry and ill-will here, rather than seeking to address a most vile 'law' the crazy old creeps in Tehran are considering. Marrying an adopted child should be illegal the whole world 'round.

Again, it has NOTHING to do with religion. Mock all you wish. GOD is not mocked.......

 

[MHunterB]

As the OP, I can tell you I didn't start this thread for any 'anti-Muslim' purpose. This is essentially a move by some in Iran to legalize child abuse on several levels - and it has NOTHING to do with religion.

Yea, sure, we believe you..............................................................................Not .

Incidentally, oh eater of pigshit - why did you speak in the plural? Your lice's opinions don't count here.....

 

[sambino510]

Didn't the juden actor Woody Allen do basically the same thing when he married his adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn?? ..

I'd say he's more of a director than an actor, and the fact he's Jewish is irrelevant, but I would argue that yes, that is a very similar case. And there are many cases of Americans getting married to questionable people, whether family members or otherwise. Several actors, some in their 60s or 70s, are married to women in their 20s, for instance.

Sambino, I agree - and I found it disgusting at the time. It's similar to the several instances of adult women teachers instigating sexual relationships with young teen male students: it's an abuse of a child by an adult in a position of authority, and it's reprehensible.

When adoption or foster parenting is involved, it's also incest.

Sadly, a child is subject to the will of an adult more often than not, whether we like it or not. It's a sad reality, but one we have to face. Also, I would argue that things like incest, and sexual relations between an adult and a minor, are more common in the world than they are not. Meaning, America or the "West" may not practice it, but its fairly common practice otherwise. I would also argue that just because a man or woman has sexual relations with a minor ,that does not necessarily constitute "child abuse", at least not in the nefarious way that you are probably thinking of.

Anyways, different cultures do different things and I don't think any of us are in a position to judge or say "my way is right and your way is wrong".