President Obama defends "targeted killing" in Terrorism fight

[Immanuel]

Hey shitnow:

We haven't "started" any wars that "murder [sic] millions [sic]."

The balance of your gibberish-laden post suggests that you are either high, drunk or just incapable of forming a coherent sentence.

That could be, I just feel if assassinating citizens is ok, whats wrong with assassinating world leaders and other government flunkies? Got a problem with that you sniveling little coward?

snip

If a guy is trying to "light up" downtown Denver as part of his "war" against the United States, killing him in the act is just what happens in war. The enemy gets killed. A guys' status as a U.S. citizen shouldn't cause anybody to hesitate in dropping that guy on the spot if he's caught in the act of attempting to commit such an atrocity.

snip

Condensed that because this is the only part of the post that I am discussing here.

We do that kind of thing all the time. Law enforcement sometimes has to take deadly force measures to protect citizens from felons who are in the process of committing a crime. But that is not what is happening here. If Al-Awlaki were killed attempting to commit a crime that would be one thing. If he is seen on the streets of Sanaa (Yes, I had to look up the name of the capital of Yemen) and a real life Jack Bauer puts a bullet in his head, that is completely different.

Hell, for all we know, Al-Awlaki could be a TV star in Yemen and simply be playing a terrorist on their version of "24" and those tapes that allegedly exist are only part of the program. Those are the kind of things that a trial are supposed to bring out. And this is the kind of thing that the U.S. Constitution is supposed to protect us from: a potentially over-zealous government.

Immie

 

[Full-Auto]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Kill innocents, become a hero. The left sure has strange ways.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Kill innocents, become a hero. The left sure has strange ways.

Watch your mouth, Anwar is an American citizen and is a good man.

 

[High_Gravity]

Hell, for all we know, Al-Awlaki could be a TV star in Yemen and simply be playing a terrorist on their version of "24" and those tapes that allegedly exist are only part of the program. Those are the kind of things that a trial are supposed to bring out. And this is the kind of thing that the U.S. Constitution is supposed to protect us from: a potentially over-zealous government.

Immie

Yes Anwar is a good innocent Muslim American man, he is the Yemeni version of David Hasselhoff.

 

[Liability]

That could be, I just feel if assassinating citizens is ok, whats wrong with assassinating world leaders and other government flunkies? Got a problem with that you sniveling little coward?

snip

If a guy is trying to "light up" downtown Denver as part of his "war" against the United States, killing him in the act is just what happens in war. The enemy gets killed. A guys' status as a U.S. citizen shouldn't cause anybody to hesitate in dropping that guy on the spot if he's caught in the act of attempting to commit such an atrocity.

snip

Condensed that because this is the only part of the post that I am discussing here.

We do that kind of thing all the time. Law enforcement sometimes has to take deadly force measures to protect citizens from felons who are in the process of committing a crime. But that is not what is happening here. If Al-Awlaki were killed attempting to commit a crime that would be one thing. If he is seen on the streets of Sanaa (Yes, I had to look up the name of the capital of Yemen) and a real life Jack Bauer puts a bullet in his head, that is completely different.

Hell, for all we know, Al-Awlaki could be a TV star in Yemen and simply be playing a terrorist on their version of "24" and those tapes that allegedly exist are only part of the program. Those are the kind of things that a trial are supposed to bring out. And this is the kind of thing that the U.S. Constitution is supposed to protect us from: a potentially over-zealous government.

Immie

If we had obtained a solid opportunity during WWII to take out Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, would it have been somehow wrong to act on that opportunity?

If your answer to that question is "yes," then I cannot discuss the matter with you further. We just disagree, which is fine. But the balance of the discussion would be kind of pointless.

HOWEVER, if your answer is "no, that would have been proper," then the sole remaining objection to taking out Al-Awlaki is the mere happenstance of his having been born within the territorial limits of the United States. That is, he is a U.S. citizen and thus he is somehow immunized from being treated like the Minister of Propaganda.

I don't believe that the fact of U.S. citizenship immunizes a person from the consequences of his action. Taking up arms against the U.S. and her people -- in this case, we ARE very much talking about actual war -- does have consequences. We cannot march into Yemen and "arrest" him. But as we have done to other al qaeda top leaders, we CAN take him out. Taking out such scum is a power that has been vested in the President under the AUMF.

We might debate the wisdom of the AUMF and whether it was drafted too broadly. But that's a separate debate. For now, at least, it is what it is. Very specific authority.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar is just a good Muslim doing gods work.

 

[Liability]

CANDIDATE Barack Obama is quoted as having said, "I don't believe in assassinations, but Osama bin Laden has declared war on us, killed 3,000 people, and under existing law, including international law, when you've got a military target like bin Laden, you take him out. And if you have 20 minutes, you do it swiftly and surely." -- see, Special Report - How the White House learned to love the drone | Reuters

Getting back to a point I made earlier. President Obama has, in this regard, acted consistently with his campaign commitments. I realize that others have serious misgivings and some legitimate concerns. But for my part, I believe it is a good thing that this President is at least clear and consistent in this aspect of addressing the problem of al qaeda terrorists.

 

[DiamondDave]

You're the one stating as fact that the policy is indiscriminate bombing.... show your undeniable proof, or shut the fuck up

I know of no policy that states this as fact, no matter if it were during Bush's terms or Obama's.... and there is no evidence that this is practice outside of the executive orders of the CIC

Missed this. The assumption is that the killings are indiscriminate until the US offers proof to the contrary:

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) — The United States must demonstrate that it is not randomly killing people in violation of international law through its use of drones on the Afghan border, a United Nations rights investigator said Tuesday.

The investigator, Philip Alston, also said the American refusal to respond to United Nations concerns that the use of drones might result in illegal executions was an “untenable” position.

Mr. Alston, who is appointed by the United Nations Human Rights Council, said his concern over drones had grown in the past few months as the American military prominently used them in the rugged area along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

He said the United States may be using the drones legally but needed to answer questions he raised in June. “Otherwise you have the really problematic bottom line, which is that the Central Intelligence Agency is running a program that is killing significant numbers of people and there is absolutely no accountability in terms of the relevant international laws,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/28nations.html​

The fact that many or most of the people being killed are civilians doesn't help their case. I'm not sure why you're getting so pissed over this; nearly every powerful government currently in existence commits these kinds of atrocities. Pakistani airstrikes within their own country are supposed to be even worse.

There is no perfect attack in war... though we as a country try harder to prevent civilian deaths than ANY other... you cannot sit and wait for a zero risk scenario, because there is NO such thing in war... and if you wait for a zero risk scenario, you will indeed be defeated...

There is no policy, order, or anything else that permits, calls for, or supports ANY indiscriminate bombing

Your assertion of a policy of indiscriminate bombing irks me as it should irk any honorable soldier that has served this country in time of war

 

[Puber.McPherson]

Anwar is just a good Muslim doing gods work.

I agree

 

[Puber.McPherson]

You are the truth sir

 

[High_Gravity]

You are the truth sir

Anwar is a good honest man, he has done nothing wrong.

 

[Liability]

You are the truth sir

Anwar is a good honest man, he has done nothing wrong.

And those who adhere(d) to his clarion calls for a bright shining Islamic version of Justice are also wonderful human beings in their own right!

 

[High_Gravity]

You are the truth sir

Anwar is a good honest man, he has done nothing wrong.

And those who adhere(d) to his clarion calls for a bright shining Islamic version of Justice are also wonderful human beings in their own right!

No doubt man, I for one am sick and tired of people trying to give honest men like Anwar Al-Awlaki a bad rep, Islamic radicals are nice, honest humble people who are accepting of other peoples religions and cultures.

 

[syrenn]

This is nothing new folks. Lets not forget that clinton signed off on bin laden.


BBC News | AMERICAS | Clinton ordered Bin Laden killing

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How about my idea for an assassination squad run by the UN, to take out world leaders who have been bad or boring. Booth had a real good idea, just the wrong leader.

You want the UN, an organization that is willing to put Iran on the commission for women's rights, to set up an assassination squad and target people they don't like? How could that possibly be a good idea?

Hmm.
1.Stop Wars and the senseless slaughter of troops and civilians.
2.Stop human rights abuses like tortured, rape, murder of Earthlings.
3.Ensure our World leaders walk on egg shells.

Sounds dog gone good to me. The squad would only activate when say 80% of the nations voted to take out some leader. It would be publicly announced. The leader would be given 60 days to clean up his act or die. And his top 20 leaders/generals would be on that list as well. So if he failed to clean up, 1 of the 20 might take him out before the deadline, to save their own ass and maybe assume power. But overall, it is to stop human abuse, stop waring against other countries.

Ohh, damn! This might be against any further American aggressive Capitalist Empire building for greed and fortune and plunder. Hoist the yard arm matey!

Really?

Chavez and Ahmadinejad get upset and petition the UN to kill Obama because he won't sell them nuclear missiles. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Foreign leaders we illegally assassinated, tried to assassinate, or helped overthrow led to Iran, Congo, Chile, Guatemala, Cuba, Chad, Liberia... hell, half of South America, Indochina, and a decent portion of the worst hellholes in Africa being what they are or were.

Hasn't exactly worked out for us. Really seem like a strategy to continue?

And it's not that this is the first time such a thing has happened. It's that this is the first attempt to legitimize assassination and make it an "acceptable" policy, to actually give government the "right" to just assassinate people at will.

Well, if you haven't done anything wrong,......if you haven't got anything to hide,.... why do you care? They won't be coming after you anyway, so what is the big deal? These terrorists are just collateral damage, people that have killed Americans and our allies.

Hmm, I think I got that right, cept, you are either with us on this, or our enemy, and against the United States of America. Make up your mind, you chose who you will stand with, the terrorists or us Moral Americans, their is no middle ground.

OK, that is all.

Seriously?

Once they start killing people who disagree with them they will eventually come after you simply because it is impossible to always agree with them. Even if you do they will think you are lying and kill you just to be safe.

 

[Puber.McPherson]

Anwar is a good honest man, he has done nothing wrong.

And those who adhere(d) to his clarion calls for a bright shining Islamic version of Justice are also wonderful human beings in their own right!

No doubt man, I for one am sick and tired of people trying to give honest men like Anwar Al-Awlaki a bad rep, Islamic radicals are nice, honest humble people who are accepting of other peoples religions and cultures.

I agree 125%

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"He is believed to be hiding in Yemen and has issued videos online repeatedly calling for Muslims to kill Americans."

At a certain point, you have to say that a person has given up their citizenship

What, exactly is that point? When they kill someone? When they point out that some people deserve to die? When they point out that some people do not deserve to be citizens? When they disagree with the government? When they get a traffic ticket? When does a person give up their citizenship?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"He is believed to be hiding in Yemen and has issued videos online repeatedly calling for Muslims to kill Americans."

At a certain point, you have to say that a person has given up their citizenship

Per which law, amendment, or Supreme Court precedent?

the following generals were certainly targeted on the battlefield. It could hardly be said that targeting them violated their rights, having been born citizens of the U.S.

General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh.
Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg.
Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run.
Brigadier-General Robert S. Garnett Killed at Cheat Mountain.
Brigadier-General Barnard E. Bee, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Francis S. Bartow, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Felix K. Zollicoffer, Killed at Mill Springs.
Brigadier-General Ben. McCulloch, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General James Mcintosh, Killed at Pea Ridge
Brigadier-General William Y. Slack, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General Adley H. Gladden, Killed at Shiloh.
Brigadier-General Robert Hatton, Killed at Fair Oaks.
Brigadier-General Turner Ashby, Killed at Harrisonburg.
Brigadier-General Richard Griffith, Killed at Savage Station.
Brigadier-General Charles S. Winder, Killed at Cedar Mountain.
Brigadier-General Samuel Garland, Jr, Killed at South Mountain.
Brigadier-General George B. Anderson, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General L. O'B. Branch, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General William E. Starke, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General Henry Little, Killed at Iuka.
Brigadier-General Thomas R. Cobb, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General Maxcy Gregg, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General James E. Rains, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General Roger W. Hanson, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General E. D. Tracy, Killed at Port Gibson.
Brigadier-General E. F. Paxton, Killed at Chancellorsville.
Brigadier-General Lloyd Tilghman, Killed at Champion's Hill.
Brigadier-General Martin E. Green, Killed at Vicksburg.
Brigadier-General William Barksdale, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Lewis Armistead, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Richard B. Garnett, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Paul J. Semmes, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General J. J. Pettigrew, Killed at Falling Waters.
Brigadier-General Preston Smith , Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Benjamin H. Helm, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General James Deshler, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Carnot Posey, Killed at Bristoe Station.
Brigadier-General Alfred Mouton, Killed at Sabine Cross Roads.
Brigadier. General Thomas Green, Killed at Pleasant Hill.
Brigadier-General W. R. Scurry, Killed at Jenkins Ferry.
Brigadier-General John M. Jones, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Micah Jenkins, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General L. A. Stafford, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Abner Perrin, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General Julius Daniel, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General James B. Gordon, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Brigadier-General George Doles, Killed at Bethesda Church.
Brigadier-General W. E. Jones, Killed at Piedmont.
Brigadier-General C. H. Stevens, Killed at Peach Tree Creek.
Brigadier-General Samuel Benton, Killed at Ezra Church.
Brigadier-General John R. Chambliss, Jr, Killed at Deep Bottom.
Brigadier-General J. C. Saunders, Killed at Weldon Railroad.
Brigadier-General Robert H. Anderson, Killed at Jonesboro.
Brigadier-General John Morgan, Killed at Greenville, Tenn.
Brigadier-General Archibald C. Godwin, Killed at Opequon.
Brigadier-General John Dunnovant, Killed at Vaughn Road.
Brigadier-General John Gregg " Darbytown Road.
Brigadier-General Stephen Elliott, Jr., Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Victor J. Girardey, Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Brigadier-General John Adams, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General Oscar F. Strahl, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General S. R. Gist, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General H. B. Granberry, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.


Source Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War

What does everyone on your list has in common?

 

[Puber.McPherson]

Per which law, amendment, or Supreme Court precedent?

the following generals were certainly targeted on the battlefield. It could hardly be said that targeting them violated their rights, having been born citizens of the U.S.

General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh.
Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg.
Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run.
Brigadier-General Robert S. Garnett Killed at Cheat Mountain.
Brigadier-General Barnard E. Bee, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Francis S. Bartow, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Felix K. Zollicoffer, Killed at Mill Springs.
Brigadier-General Ben. McCulloch, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General James Mcintosh, Killed at Pea Ridge
Brigadier-General William Y. Slack, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General Adley H. Gladden, Killed at Shiloh.
Brigadier-General Robert Hatton, Killed at Fair Oaks.
Brigadier-General Turner Ashby, Killed at Harrisonburg.
Brigadier-General Richard Griffith, Killed at Savage Station.
Brigadier-General Charles S. Winder, Killed at Cedar Mountain.
Brigadier-General Samuel Garland, Jr, Killed at South Mountain.
Brigadier-General George B. Anderson, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General L. O'B. Branch, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General William E. Starke, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General Henry Little, Killed at Iuka.
Brigadier-General Thomas R. Cobb, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General Maxcy Gregg, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General James E. Rains, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General Roger W. Hanson, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General E. D. Tracy, Killed at Port Gibson.
Brigadier-General E. F. Paxton, Killed at Chancellorsville.
Brigadier-General Lloyd Tilghman, Killed at Champion's Hill.
Brigadier-General Martin E. Green, Killed at Vicksburg.
Brigadier-General William Barksdale, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Lewis Armistead, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Richard B. Garnett, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Paul J. Semmes, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General J. J. Pettigrew, Killed at Falling Waters.
Brigadier-General Preston Smith , Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Benjamin H. Helm, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General James Deshler, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Carnot Posey, Killed at Bristoe Station.
Brigadier-General Alfred Mouton, Killed at Sabine Cross Roads.
Brigadier. General Thomas Green, Killed at Pleasant Hill.
Brigadier-General W. R. Scurry, Killed at Jenkins Ferry.
Brigadier-General John M. Jones, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Micah Jenkins, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General L. A. Stafford, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Abner Perrin, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General Julius Daniel, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General James B. Gordon, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Brigadier-General George Doles, Killed at Bethesda Church.
Brigadier-General W. E. Jones, Killed at Piedmont.
Brigadier-General C. H. Stevens, Killed at Peach Tree Creek.
Brigadier-General Samuel Benton, Killed at Ezra Church.
Brigadier-General John R. Chambliss, Jr, Killed at Deep Bottom.
Brigadier-General J. C. Saunders, Killed at Weldon Railroad.
Brigadier-General Robert H. Anderson, Killed at Jonesboro.
Brigadier-General John Morgan, Killed at Greenville, Tenn.
Brigadier-General Archibald C. Godwin, Killed at Opequon.
Brigadier-General John Dunnovant, Killed at Vaughn Road.
Brigadier-General John Gregg " Darbytown Road.
Brigadier-General Stephen Elliott, Jr., Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Victor J. Girardey, Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Brigadier-General John Adams, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General Oscar F. Strahl, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General S. R. Gist, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General H. B. Granberry, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.



What does everyone on your list has in common?

_____________

You forgot General Grievous