President Obama defends "targeted killing" in Terrorism fight

[Father Time]

Hmm, I think I got that right, cept, you are either with us on this, or our enemy, and against the United States of America. Make up your mind, you chose who you will stand with, the terrorists or us Moral Americans, their is no middle ground.

You have got to be kidding us.

 

[QUENTIN]

Hmm, I think I got that right, cept, you are either with us on this, or our enemy, and against the United States of America. Make up your mind, you chose who you will stand with, the terrorists or us Moral Americans, their is no middle ground.

You have got to be kidding us.

Pretty sure he is. Too over-the-top and cliche not to be intended satirically. The first line made me roll my eyes, but then "Hmm, I think I got that right..." followed by another comment as stereotypical and condemned as they get makes me think he's just fooling.

 

[Toome]

Targeting Osama bin Laden for assassination is one thing, targeting Anwar Al-Awlaki is another. Bin Laden, as a foreign combatant, is a valid military target. Al-Awlaki, as a US citizen, is entitled to due process under the Constitution.

It's easier to accept targeting Al-Awlaki because of his name. But if his name were Paul Smith or Bill Jones, there'd be a lot of hesitation. The moment we allow the United States Government to decide on its own to kill a US citizen without any sort of judicial review or due process of law, that's when we have ushered in the type of government our forefathers fought against.

Even scumbags like Al-Awlaki have the right to due process.

 

[Liability]

I would much prefer targeted killing of world leaders to starting wars that murder millions. What is a little sniping among old friends to solve a quarrel, like having a Berlin Wall, or fucking up countries and people for ideals.

Hey shitnow:

We haven't "started" any wars that "murder [sic] millions [sic]."

The balance of your gibberish-laden post suggests that you are either high, drunk or just incapable of forming a coherent sentence.

That could be, I just feel if assassinating citizens is ok, whats wrong with assassinating world leaders and other government flunkies? Got a problem with that you sniveling little coward?

Actually, pussy, you are still babbling incoherently.

If a guy is trying to "light up" downtown Denver as part of his "war" against the United States, killing him in the act is just what happens in war. The enemy gets killed. A guys' status as a U.S. citizen shouldn't cause anybody to hesitate in dropping that guy on the spot if he's caught in the act of attempting to commit such an atrocity.

It is, in fact, ok to target other world leaders if we happen to be at war with them, you jerk-off.

What made you such a pussy, anyway? Did you get bullied in school? Well, congratulations. You have worked through it. You are now the official toughest internet bad ass in the history of the interwebz.

 

[Granny]

This is a tricky one. Sets a pretty big precedent. Our President can now legally order hits on American Citizens or anyone else around the World. I'll have to look into this some more before i start cheerleading for it. It's more complicated than it seems.

The courts have just given the US president the power to kill dissidents and political opponents. I thought we got rid of that when we got rid of tyranny.

I'm not sure this sets precedent. I may be completely wrong about this, but wasn't the same thing done regarding Osama Ben Laden? In the case of this other guy who is a US citizen could the factor of being a traitor play into the decision?

I'm just asking - and also not very much awake right now. I guess the thing that stands out for me is that I haven't noticed any comment about the defense team - the ACLU. There's a group of people who are truly anti-American. Look at the history of this organization and who founded it.

I'd like to look at this decision (at least right now) as the SC handing the ACLU a defeat.

 

[High_Gravity]

How dare Obama do this? Anwar Al-Awlaki is a good Muslim and is innocent.

 

[High_Gravity]

Didn't Adam Gadahn get his citizenship stripped? how come it hasn't happened to this guy yet?

 

[Two Thumbs]

"He is believed to be hiding in Yemen and has issued videos online repeatedly calling for Muslims to kill Americans."

At a certain point, you have to say that a person has given up their citizenship

Per which law, amendment, or Supreme Court precedent?

the following generals were certainly targeted on the battlefield. It could hardly be said that targeting them violated their rights, having been born citizens of the U.S.

General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh.
Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg.
Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run.
Brigadier-General Robert S. Garnett Killed at Cheat Mountain.
Brigadier-General Barnard E. Bee, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Francis S. Bartow, Killed at First Bull Run.
Brigadier-General Felix K. Zollicoffer, Killed at Mill Springs.
Brigadier-General Ben. McCulloch, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General James Mcintosh, Killed at Pea Ridge
Brigadier-General William Y. Slack, Killed at Pea Ridge.
Brigadier-General Adley H. Gladden, Killed at Shiloh.
Brigadier-General Robert Hatton, Killed at Fair Oaks.
Brigadier-General Turner Ashby, Killed at Harrisonburg.
Brigadier-General Richard Griffith, Killed at Savage Station.
Brigadier-General Charles S. Winder, Killed at Cedar Mountain.
Brigadier-General Samuel Garland, Jr, Killed at South Mountain.
Brigadier-General George B. Anderson, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General L. O'B. Branch, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General William E. Starke, Killed at Antietam.
Brigadier-General Henry Little, Killed at Iuka.
Brigadier-General Thomas R. Cobb, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General Maxcy Gregg, Killed at Fredericksburg.
Brigadier-General James E. Rains, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General Roger W. Hanson, Killed at Stone's River.
Brigadier-General E. D. Tracy, Killed at Port Gibson.
Brigadier-General E. F. Paxton, Killed at Chancellorsville.
Brigadier-General Lloyd Tilghman, Killed at Champion's Hill.
Brigadier-General Martin E. Green, Killed at Vicksburg.
Brigadier-General William Barksdale, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Lewis Armistead, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Richard B. Garnett, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General Paul J. Semmes, Killed at Gettysburg.
Brigadier-General J. J. Pettigrew, Killed at Falling Waters.
Brigadier-General Preston Smith , Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Benjamin H. Helm, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General James Deshler, Killed at Chickamauga.
Brigadier-General Carnot Posey, Killed at Bristoe Station.
Brigadier-General Alfred Mouton, Killed at Sabine Cross Roads.
Brigadier. General Thomas Green, Killed at Pleasant Hill.
Brigadier-General W. R. Scurry, Killed at Jenkins Ferry.
Brigadier-General John M. Jones, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Micah Jenkins, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General L. A. Stafford, Killed at Wilderness.
Brigadier-General Abner Perrin, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General Julius Daniel, Killed at Spotsylvania.
Brigadier-General James B. Gordon, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Brigadier-General George Doles, Killed at Bethesda Church.
Brigadier-General W. E. Jones, Killed at Piedmont.
Brigadier-General C. H. Stevens, Killed at Peach Tree Creek.
Brigadier-General Samuel Benton, Killed at Ezra Church.
Brigadier-General John R. Chambliss, Jr, Killed at Deep Bottom.
Brigadier-General J. C. Saunders, Killed at Weldon Railroad.
Brigadier-General Robert H. Anderson, Killed at Jonesboro.
Brigadier-General John Morgan, Killed at Greenville, Tenn.
Brigadier-General Archibald C. Godwin, Killed at Opequon.
Brigadier-General John Dunnovant, Killed at Vaughn Road.
Brigadier-General John Gregg " Darbytown Road.
Brigadier-General Stephen Elliott, Jr., Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Victor J. Girardey, Killed at Petersburg.
Brigadier-General Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Brigadier-General John Adams, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General Oscar F. Strahl, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General S. R. Gist, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General H. B. Granberry, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.


Source Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War

They were men on the field of battle. This isn't just apples and oranges, it's apples and cars.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is a good Muslim and is innocent of all these charges.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

 

[Immanuel]

If you believe (I don't, just to be clear) that this is some new "power" or claimed authority, I believe you are naive.

In point of fact, I suspect that it's not just many of our past Presidents who have done this kind of thing, but the leaders of other nations do it and have done it, too.

It seems to me that the only difference in the last two Administrations is that somehow it seems to have become fodder for litigation.

It seems to me to be pretty clear that we have sanctioned enemies in the past. There is even that story about how President Clinton had Osama bin Laden virtually speaking "in the cross-hairs" but wouldn't "pull the trigger." I seriously doubt that was the first time any President got the call to "make the call" on whether to take out an enemy leader. The power or authority has been presumed to flow from the President's position as the Commander in Chief.

What is less explainable is how any of this is subject to a judicial branch imprimatur.

Here is an interesting look at the topic from 2006. Targeted Killings - Council on Foreign Relations

Believing/knowing that it goes on and supporting it are two very different things.

BTW Thanks for the link. I didn't read all of it, but I did scan it and found it helpful.

Immie

I may have misinterpreted your post. I thought you were reacting to this as though it's something new.

I understand your reluctance. It is a terrible power. In a more rational world, not only would we not resort to such things, we wouldn't need to even contemplate such things. But the world is actually a fairly dark and dangerous place in the international arena.

That said, I cannot imagine that we would have had any moral qualms (and I don't believe we should have had any such qualms) about assassinating Adolf Hitler during WWII if we had the shot at pulling it off. I say the same thing about the Osama bin Laden and the asswipes of al qaeda, today.

If we could capture him alive with no muss and no fuss, and extract from him every scrap of intel we needed, that would be preferable to killing him. But short of that, killing him outright is a perfectly fine alternative. We have recently "taken out" some of the other al qaeda operational honchos. Was doing so "wrong?" I don't see it that way.

No, I am not under the false impression that this is anything new.

Also, when it comes to an Adolf Hitler or even an Osama bin Ladin, I understand the need for this. What concerns me is the idea that it can now be used haphazardly for any opponent to the President. I know, I know! That is a slippery slope argument, but we opened the door for an administration with the Patriot Act and things have only gotten worse and they are going to continue to get worse.

In this case, we not only have a President seeking public approval of an assassination but you have the courts publicly approving of such.

The Constitution is supposed to protect every citizen not just the ones that most of us like. Personally, I think Al-Awlaki should face a firing squad... in fact, if we can find someone who would be willing to do it, I would support having someone saw his head off while he is alive (even though the Constitution forbids cruel and inhumane punishment ), but not until after he has had a fair trial.

Immie

 

[Liability]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Now there's an interesting take on the guy.

In what way has he demonstrated his American Hero status?

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Now there's an interesting take on the guy.

In what way has he demonstrated his American Hero status?

I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Liability]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Now there's an interesting take on the guy.

In what way has he demonstrated his American Hero status?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Well, if we are going to murder people that are threats to us, lets make a list;
Ahmadinnerjacket
Kim jung ill and sons
Barney
Pelosi
Who ever is in charge of Cuba
Carpet bomb 5 miles south and coast to coast in Mexico
The Pauls [they will whine about the Constitution]
The Pope
Anyone wearing a funny hat in China
And The Teletubbies

 

[High_Gravity]

Well, if we are going to murder people that are threats to us, lets make a list;
Ahmadinnerjacket
Kim jung ill and sons
Barney
Pelosi
Who ever is in charge of Cuba
Carpet bomb 5 miles south and coast to coast in Mexico
The Pauls [they will whine about the Constitution]
The Pope
Anyone wearing a funny hat in China
And The Teletubbies

Anwar is a good Muslim and does not deserve to be treated this way.

 

[Liability]

ONE of the main objections to the "targeted killing" tactic is that it vests too much power in the hands of the President (or his designee).

There is a demand for "due process." It is argued that the killing of an American citizen by resort to this tactic is somehow unConstitutional.

As food for thought, I wonder if it makes any difference if we stop and consider that the AUMF seems to specifically authorize the President's decision in this case?

Section 1 - Short Title

This joint resolution may be cited as the 'Authorization for Use of Military Force'.

Section 2 - Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki follows the religion of peace so he is not a violent man.

 

[Liability]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is an American hero.

Now there's an interesting take on the guy.

In what way has he demonstrated his American Hero status?

I'm being sarcastic.

I had read some of your prior posts and assumed that you were being sarcastic. That's why I tossed a soft ball your way. I thought you might want to go for some rhetorical flourish.

 

[High_Gravity]

Anwar Al-Awlaki is a good man and has done much for American civil rights.