Preacher politicians

[Jurginvoncelle]

Lord bless the Christian political preacher. Yes Lord, bless him, and if he is wrong, forgive him, for the arrogance of use of the pulpit for his own opinion.

I believe:
The church is to feed the soul that hungers, and is no place for politics.
The church is no place for a differing opinion therefore no one can have a debate.
God is the same yesterday today and forever.

Yet, American Politics is an ever changing skirmish of humans trying to govern themselves.

In a church, you can't take issue with the speaker, because he is presenting the unquestionable word of GOD! If you don't believe that you wouldn't be there.
This "Lectern" or podium, is supposed to be a holy alter. An alter reminiscent of the blood sacrifice before the one and only God! For Politics? For shame I say!

How pale the comparison, and justly loose much complexion.

Only after all political sides are examined, and debated, ONLY then can the truth can be deduced. That is a job for a congressman, not an ordained minister.
The preacher belittles not only himself, but his office.

He would separate himself from souls who would prosper by God's word for eternal life, rather supplanting a possible differing political view, robs his crown of more stars, and the flock is turned away hungry.
Perhaps one would think that this pastor's views are the only views a Christian can have. So if you don't agree with his political views, you would not only reject his church, but perhaps his whole "Christianity?"

How about that for a "stumbling block"?

If done outside the church, his credibility is NOT to God, HOWEVER just as a Doctor who carries a "Dr." in front of their name, he should not claim to be other than a "citizen" unless he would will to be held liable.
A citizen as are we all!
These pastors have a spotlight problem "look at the credibility I have, this is my opinion".
Better to find a message board and vent his political voice, and exercise his debate.

 

[Smartt33]

Lord bless the Christian political preacher. Yes Lord, bless him, and if he is wrong, forgive him, for the arrogance of use of the pulpit for his own opinion.

I believe:
The church is to feed the soul that hungers, and is no place for politics.
The church is no place for a differing opinion therefore no one can have a debate.
God is the same yesterday today and forever.

Yet, American Politics is an ever changing skirmish of humans trying to govern themselves.

In a church, you can't take issue with the speaker, because he is presenting the unquestionable word of GOD! If you don't believe that you wouldn't be there.
This "Lectern" or podium, is supposed to be a holy alter. An alter reminiscent of the blood sacrifice before the one and only God! For Politics? For shame I say!

How pale the comparison, and justly loose much complexion.

Only after all political sides are examined, and debated, ONLY then can the truth can be deduced. That is a job for a congressman, not an ordained minister.
The preacher belittles not only himself, but his office.

He would separate himself from souls who would prosper by God's word for eternal life, rather supplanting a possible differing political view, robs his crown of more stars, and the flock is turned away hungry.
Perhaps one would think that this pastor's views are the only views a Christian can have. So if you don't agree with his political views, you would not only reject his church, but perhaps his whole "Christianity?"

How about that for a "stumbling block"?

If done outside the church, his credibility is NOT to God, HOWEVER just as a Doctor who carries a "Dr." in front of their name, he should not claim to be other than a "citizen" unless he would will to be held liable.
A citizen as are we all!
These pastors have a spotlight problem "look at the credibility I have, this is my opinion".
Better to find a message board and vent his political voice, and exercise his debate.

When the issues are issues that the bible addresses, and when these issues are made political by people who want to make them a part of American norm, they are indeed issues that the church should address.

To emdorse a candidate is foolish for any church because surely not all members would agree. To address the issues is absolutely necessary, even if they are hot political issues. Who says they cannot be both political and religious issues?

Inside or ourside the church, the issues are still significant.

If the Liberals would have their way, preachers and even Christians would not be allowed to vote, certainly not if they vote according to their moral beliefs.

 

[Devin]

Separation of Church & State. Please.

 

[MajikMyst]

Lord bless the Christian political preacher. Yes Lord, bless him, and if he is wrong, forgive him, for the arrogance of use of the pulpit for his own opinion.

I believe:
The church is to feed the soul that hungers, and is no place for politics.
The church is no place for a differing opinion therefore no one can have a debate.
God is the same yesterday today and forever.

Yet, American Politics is an ever changing skirmish of humans trying to govern themselves.

In a church, you can't take issue with the speaker, because he is presenting the unquestionable word of GOD! If you don't believe that you wouldn't be there.
This "Lectern" or podium, is supposed to be a holy alter. An alter reminiscent of the blood sacrifice before the one and only God! For Politics? For shame I say!

How pale the comparison, and justly loose much complexion.

Only after all political sides are examined, and debated, ONLY then can the truth can be deduced. That is a job for a congressman, not an ordained minister.
The preacher belittles not only himself, but his office.

He would separate himself from souls who would prosper by God's word for eternal life, rather supplanting a possible differing political view, robs his crown of more stars, and the flock is turned away hungry.
Perhaps one would think that this pastor's views are the only views a Christian can have. So if you don't agree with his political views, you would not only reject his church, but perhaps his whole "Christianity?"

How about that for a "stumbling block"?

If done outside the church, his credibility is NOT to God, HOWEVER just as a Doctor who carries a "Dr." in front of their name, he should not claim to be other than a "citizen" unless he would will to be held liable.
A citizen as are we all!
These pastors have a spotlight problem "look at the credibility I have, this is my opinion".
Better to find a message board and vent his political voice, and exercise his debate.

When the issues are issues that the bible addresses, and when these issues are made political by people who want to make them a part of American norm, they are indeed issues that the church should address.

To emdorse a candidate is foolish for any church because surely not all members would agree. To address the issues is absolutely necessary, even if they are hot political issues. Who says they cannot be both political and religious issues?

Inside or ourside the church, the issues are still significant.

If the Liberals would have their way, preachers and even Christians would not be allowed to vote, certainly not if they vote according to their moral beliefs.

Actually that is a lie.. If liberals have their way, preachers and christians would still be allowed to vote.. Unlike you, liberals sternly believe in rights of all Americans.. So please do not confuse liberals with your own reflection in the mirror..

Voting according to their moral beliefs is for the most part irrelevent and a moot issue.. Moral beliefs has nothing to do with the economy or the safety of this nation.. But if you are claiming that it is the moral belief of christians and preacher to torture or water board someone, then perhaps you should consider your own mortality in god's eyes and what sin is?

Where preachers and christians get into trouble when it comes to voting is voting for someone based on no other qualification than their religion.. Religion and faith have absolutely nothing to do with running a presporous and peaceful nation.. I am quite certian when I say that when a business owner watches his business faulter.. He does not consult the bible when it comes to where his investments are or how to improve his business.. There is nothing in the bible that can guide any of our presidents or politicians on how to make our nation a better place.. How to help the economy, fight wars, solve healthcare issues.. There is nothing there..

If a preacher and a christian are going to vote for someone based on their religion, then they are doing nothing but proving their own ignorance..

Bush was a christian, and will most likely be seen historically as the worst president in history.. Voted into office twice by the worst voters in history..

Make no mistake.. Liberals believe that everyone has a right to vote.. We just wish some people would take the responsibility of voting a little more serious..

 

[Smartt33]

Separation of Church & State. Please.

If abortion is a Biblical issue, and is then made a political issue, then the State is the one who is butting in. It was a Biblical issue first.

As long as the state does not tell me (if I were a Doctor) to perform abortions, or to sell pills for the same purpose, or to not express my opinion about it, then I personally have no problem with it existing. It is wrong, and immoral in most cases, however, immorality is all around me anyway. Just don't tell me I am cannot vote against it.

I really wish people understood the facts about separation of church and state.

 

[goldcatt]

Separation of Church & State. Please.

If abortion is a Biblical issue, and is then made a political issue, then the State is the one who is butting in. It was a Biblical issue first.

As long as the state does not tell me (if I were a Doctor) to perform abortions, or to sell pills for the same purpose, or to not express my opinion about it, then I personally have no problem with it existing. It is wrong, and immoral in most cases, however, immorality is all around me anyway. Just don't tell me I am cannot vote against it.

I really wish people understood the facts about separation of church and state.

Me too.

Separation of church and state is to protect the church as much as the state. Perhaps even more so. When you have churches preaching politics from the pulpit, the church has been corrupted and is no longer acting in the interests of its parishoners, but in the interests of secular power and in many cases, material gain. That is NOT the purpose of a church, any church.

Of course individuals must be free to vote their individual consciences. But that doesn't mean handing out sample ballots in the sanctuary or a spritual leader telling people from the pulpit to give their time and money to a specific political party, candidate or cause is remotely appropriate.

Religion is not supposed to be about who holds secular power, money and control in this life, but how we handle our relationships with each other and with (insert Deity of choice) and hopefully achieve redemption in the next. Not all churches get caught up in the political and material corruption, but I've walked out of too many that have to believe it doesn't happen.

 

[Big Black Dog]

If you are a preacher, you should stick to the business of teaching and preaching about your religion. You should keep your nose out of the political arena - except for your own right to vote and express your desires as a private citizen. To get up in front of a church gathering and either pubilically endore a political candidate, a political movement or agenda, or to express "God's will" to vote for a certain candidate is becoming a politician - not maintaining a status of a preacher. I believe in the seperation of Church and State. I further believe that if you are a preacher you would make just as poor of a politician as would a politician would make a poor preacher. The two should not be mixed. I believe doing so is offensive to God to dabble in politics and it is further an affront to God when politicians have just given a 30 minnute speech, full of lies, half-truths and plain old stupidity by ending the speech with "May God bless America".

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

I am both a liberal and a Christian. I believe in the "breath of life" that is why a human baby is born with plugs in it's nose. Read Gen about God and Adam, and when "MAN" became a living soul. This seems to be the dividing issue between liberals and far right “Christians” is the Life begins at conception theology. This would beg the question what is an umbilical cord?

Having said that, Christians obey the law because they are Christians, not because they have fear of legal retribution for their bad action.
As a Christian some choices you must be predisposed to, because of your faith. Therefore; to legalize that which is "immoral", to a Christian; is irrelevant.
To legislate morality (at least to the subjective Christian) is a mute point.

I don’t not believe "God is any respecter of persons", I also believe that is what is stated in the Bible. Know that God must not be neither Republican nor Democrat, and the only nation he is partial is Israel. Any pride we have as gentiles are unfounded because only thru grace are we saved. Any way, I feel sure, that Jesus didn't die for our flag, and is a personal savior, not a flag to be planted on issues of state.

My point of this ramble is that “the church” and “a personal savior”and has little to do with the collective governing of our nation and more to do with the personal life of those who claim to have religious fervor. To superimpose this reflection upon all citizens is hypocritical, when Jesus would call us to “…come out and be separate.”

Of our own selves a nation, by the people and for the people, gay, straight, black, white, Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise.

 

[Smartt33]

When the issues are issues that the bible addresses, and when these issues are made political by people who want to make them a part of American norm, they are indeed issues that the church should address.

To emdorse a candidate is foolish for any church because surely not all members would agree. To address the issues is absolutely necessary, even if they are hot political issues. Who says they cannot be both political and religious issues?

Inside or ourside the church, the issues are still significant.

If the Liberals would have their way, preachers and even Christians would not be allowed to vote, certainly not if they vote according to their moral beliefs.

Actually that is a lie.. If liberals have their way, preachers and christians would still be allowed to vote.. Unlike you, liberals sternly believe in rights of all Americans.. So please do not confuse liberals with your own reflection in the mirror..

I believe Politicians at the present time really could care less about the people. I believe Democrats only care about money and votes and power, and those people who agree with them. I believe Republicans and Democrats are fools for not working together to create a better and smaller government. I believe Conservatives would never treat the country as bad as the people are being treated now. Republicans believe in the rights of all people, but not in the promotion of immorality, and the immortal way the government is spending money right now. Republicans believe in the Constitution as it is written, not as it is being rewritten by the democrats and Supreme court by verbal approval and demands.

Voting according to their moral beliefs is for the most part irrelevent and a moot issue.. Moral beliefs has nothing to do with the economy or the safety of this nation.. But if you are claiming that it is the moral belief of christians and preacher to torture or water board someone, then perhaps you should consider your own mortality in god's eyes and what sin is?

When American's money is being used for immoral acts, yes it does effect the economy. The money can be spent better. The safety of the nation is being placed in danger's way by approval of immoral behavior such as abortion. Waterboarding is not something that I personally approve of in that I would not do it. I love people too much. However, I also have not spoken in favor iof it on any board. I don't approve of killing people either, in war, or in jail, however, I don't make any statements about any concrete reasons why. I just love people too much. If I will not do it, I would not expect anyone else to have to.

Where preachers and christians get into trouble when it comes to voting is voting for someone based on no other qualification than their religion.. Religion and faith have absolutely nothing to do with running a presporous and peaceful nation..

I agree. I also believe that anyone who votes just because of any one issue is a fool. I also believe anyone who votes "Democratic" or "Republican" by pulling that handle is just as foolish. Religion is not necessarily a qualirier that would drive my vote, however, I do believe God does have an agenda in it all, and He can use any person who wins to accomplish His plans

I am quite certian when I say that when a business owner watches his business faulter.. He does not consult the bible when it comes to where his investments are or how to improve his business.. There is nothing in the bible that can guide any of our presidents or politicians on how to make our nation a better place.. How to help the economy, fight wars, solve healthcare issues.. There is nothing there..

While I would agree that there is no concrete direction that a President should go regarding decisions, there are are some principles that the Bible would deliver to the one listening that may guide in making decisions that are wise, and morally appropriate.

If a preacher and a christian are going to vote for someone based on their religion, then they are doing nothing but proving their own ignorance..

Same is true for anyone who votes a party rather than a person into office.

Bush was a christian, and will most likely be seen historically as the worst president in history.. Voted into office twice by the worst voters in history..

I am not sure that is true, Obama may take over first place in that area.

Make no mistake.. Liberals believe that everyone has a right to vote.. We just wish some people would take the responsibility of voting a little more serious..

OK, I feel the same about the opinion of the Republicans.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

I feel that way about GOP.
The Dem's are the party of civil rights.

 

[ReAmericaNow]

Is it me or is it the more Christian the politician the less moral they are?

 

[uscitizen]

Is it me or is it the more Christian the politician the less moral they are?

The profession of preaching seems to be highly scandal ridden.
I would like to see the stats on it. I don't figure anyone has had the balls to compile em though.

 

[B L Zeebub]

Is it me or is it the more Christian the politician the less moral they are?

The profession of preaching seems to be highly scandal ridden.
I would like to see the stats on it. I don't figure anyone has had the balls to compile em though.

I have, religion is a right load of bollocks

 

[Smartt33]

I am both a liberal and a Christian. I believe in the "breath of life" that is why a human baby is born with plugs in it's nose. Read Gen about God and Adam, and when "MAN" became a living soul. This seems to be the dividing issue between liberals and far right “Christians” is the Life begins at conception theology. This would beg the question what is an umbilical cord?

What of Psalm 139, and others where we read that God formed man, has a plan for him, and this is done from the very moment that being began at conception? Can you overlook that God was with us even from long before birth, and had a relationship with us at that point?

Having said that, Christians obey the law because they are Christians, not because they have fear of legal retribution for their bad action.
As a Christian some choices you must be predisposed to, because of your faith. Therefore; to legalize that which is "immoral", to a Christian; is irrelevant.
To legislate morality (at least to the subjective Christian) is a mute point.

Man has obligation under the law as far as that law goes without imposing immorality upon the nation. Remember, God's Word says, "If My prople, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways, I will hear from him and will heal their land." And, God "blesses the nation whose God is the Lord." Are we to overlook these woeds, and many more where God says He will bless the nation? What about, "Go and make disciples throughout the world..."

I don’t not believe "God is any respecter of persons", I also believe that is what is stated in the Bible. Know that God must not be neither Republican nor Democrat, and the only nation he is partial is Israel. Any pride we have as gentiles are unfounded because only thru grace are we saved. Any way, I feel sure, that Jesus didn't die for our flag, and is a personal savior, not a flag to be planted on issues of state.

I'll take it a little further, God is not in politics. He is in building a Kingdom where He will be the eternal King. God is not an American. God is also not going to bless those who walk in immorality, with the one exctption that when God is blessing His people some of that blessing flows onto the rest of the population that God respects, even though they may be living in a lifestyle God does not respect.

My point of this ramble is that “the church” and “a personal savior”and has little to do with the collective governing of our nation and more to do with the personal life of those who claim to have religious fervor. To superimpose this reflection upon all citizens is hypocritical, when Jesus would call us to “…come out and be separate.”

Of our own selves a nation, by the people and for the people, gay, straight, black, white, Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise.

You, as do most liberals seem to agree that God does not belong anywhere non-Christians are. Well, take that up with God. You, and most liberals seem to believe that Christians should never run for office, or be leaders in the secular nation. I disagree, and so does God. With that said, God will enter the political arena even if it is by the general Christian citizens as they make a difference in their communities and state and country. I don't believe Liberals want that to happen.

 

[uscitizen]

I believe in freedom from religion.
The religious have no right to impose their beliefs and morals on me thru legislation.

 

[Newby]

I feel that way about GOP.
The Dem's are the party of civil rights.

They've done their job well with you apparently.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

Smartt33 quoted the bible, (and I paraphrase) said My people must reject evil, and I will heal their land.

“my people” refers to Israel, not the gentile nations who are grafted thru grace of Christ’s death. You must therefore also agree that none of us offer blood sacrifice in the temple. This graft with Jesus is a personal savior, not a red white and blue inclusion of Americans. “Under God” was a hopeful display of moralist ideals, not a statement of exclusion for other religions.

Why are you so sure of my exclusion of God in our government? Because we can not rule as the kings of Israel? We do not stone people as the old testament mandates? We do not beat a liar? We do however bear false witness, and call them political ad campaigns?

I would be for the abolishment of lies, but what would we do in areas of national security? Tell the truth on everything? Do not forget the freedom of the press, the right of the public to know. The truth on the nightly news, and our enemies know as much as we?

Point being times have changed, and we must adapt our tactics to keep us save. God will not send plagues upon our enemies because we do not rule as God would have us rule. We rule for the good of our people.

The idea being we separate Church and state, as the knights going into battle, kneel before the cruciform hilt of their sword, cross them selves and pray for the absolution of blood that they would spill of the field of battle.
This ideal has degenerated to greed, lies for ulterior motives, and breach of trust to the common of which the congressional are elected to SERVE!

I bear Godless ideals because I am a liberal?
Hardly. But I do believe my ideals are as dead as the moralistic founding fathers.

 

[Smartt33]

Is it me or is it the more Christian the politician the less moral they are?

The profession of preaching seems to be highly scandal ridden.
I would like to see the stats on it. I don't figure anyone has had the balls to compile em though.

What about the profession of politician. Talk about scandals!!

Yes, a few have made the news, but when you think about the totals, those stats would make the few seem very insignificant.

I doubt that is true about politicians (both sides).

Oh, and uscitizen, it is you, and your apparent biases that skew the facts.

 

[Smartt33]

Smartt33 quoted the bible, (and I paraphrase) said My people must reject evil, and I will heal their land.

“my people” refers to Israel, not the gentile nations who are grafted thru grace of Christ’s death. You must therefore also agree that none of us offer blood sacrifice in the temple. This graft with Jesus is a personal savior, not a red white and blue inclusion of Americans. “Under God” was a hopeful display of moralist ideals, not a statement of exclusion for other religions.

Actually, the "my people" mentioned has to mean the Israelites at the time, but the "My people" also refers to all of the Believers in the Messiah. I, not any true Christian would ever say that being an American makes one a Christian. That would be foolish. We have not said that in the past, nor do we say it now.

Why are you so sure of my exclusion of God in our government? Because we can not rule as the kings of Israel? We do not stone people as the old testament mandates? We do not beat a liar? We do however bear false witness, and call them political ad campaigns?

So, are you saying that politicians can garry their faith into politics? No one is saying on these boards, that I have seen, that we want a Theocracy.

I would be for the abolishment of lies, but what would we do in areas of national security? Tell the truth on everything? Do not forget the freedom of the press, the right of the public to know. The truth on the nightly news, and our enemies know as much as we?

So, are you saying that telling lies to trap people is better than waterboarding? I believe we can be honest in all of our practices. As a Parole Officer for 21 years, I discovered that the truth never hindered any of my investigations.

Point being times have changed, and we must adapt our tactics to keep us save. God will not send plagues upon our enemies because we do not rule as God would have us rule. We rule for the good of our people.

However, God will not keep this nation under the protection that He has if Christians resort to lies in order to bring conviction upon the enemy. We must still walk "With" God if we want to be under His care and protection. Otherwise we then become the enemy. Tactics do not have to change morally, just in technology, or methods that are morally upright.

The idea being we separate Church and state, as the knights going into battle, kneel before the cruciform hilt of their sword, cross them selves and pray for the absolution of blood that they would spill of the field of battle.
This ideal has degenerated to greed, lies for ulterior motives, and breach of trust to the common of which the congressional are elected to SERVE!

I bear Godless ideals because I am a liberal?
Hardly. But I do believe my ideals are as dead as the moralistic founding fathers.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

Actually, the "my people" mentioned has to mean the Israelites at the time, but the "My people" also refers to all of the Believers in the Messiah. I, not any true Christian would ever say that being an American makes one a Christian. That would be foolish. We have not said that in the past, nor do we say it now.

And "my people" still means Israel to this day. Now I never said that all Americans are Christians, just that we freely have the choice to be. I am one also.

... I believe we can be honest in all of our practices. As a Parole Officer for 21 years, I discovered that the truth never hindered any of my investigations.

However, God will not keep this nation under the protection that He has if Christians resort to lies in order to bring conviction upon the enemy. We must still walk "With" God if we want to be under His care and protection. Otherwise we then become the enemy. Tactics do not have to change morally, just in technology, or methods that are morally upright.

No please re-examine...Cases of national security requires counter-intelligence, spies, lies, and propaganda, none of which are illegal, but ALL are immoral, and quite “unchristian-like” for behavior. We have whole sections of government who’s sole job is to lie.
There are black operations that include espionage, even killing. These tactics are for the good of our nation and are quite necessary.

Further...How can a Christian kill another Christian, or of any other faith human being, knowing that the victim will be damned for eternity without Jesus in their life? Yet many Christians are in the military. (BTW you do support the socalized military don't you?)

The bible clearly states about the glory of heaven as "there shall be no liars there"
What are we to do? Separate church and state? Yes. That is exactly what we did.