Poll: What should we do with guns?

[AmyNation]

Where did I say the army would "make short work" of any rebellion?

You seem to be operating under the delusion that a modern military with planes trumps a bunch of people with rifles. I hope to educate you on the difficulties you are ignoring.

The only difference between the military and US citizens carrying rifles is planes?

I've repeatedly said, I think it's a silly argument, and that there are much more valid ones than it.

 

[tjvh]

Where did I say the army would "make short work" of any rebellion?

Whether you said it or not... I find it hard to believe soldiers would put a twisted liberal ideology ahead of family, and country. Sure we had atrocities at Kent State many years ago... But that was a different time... And a different rationality. Liberals always have a knack for pissing off those who risk life and limb to defend the Freedoms Liberals take for granted. I find it VERY hard to believe that those who defend our Constitution will piss in the wind to defend tyrannical liberal KOOKS whose sole desire is to destroy the very Freedoms America was built upon to further their own idiotic utopian agendas.

 

[AmyNation]

Do you think the goverment would rise up and oppress the populous if they didn't have the backing of the military?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Lol, I hardly ever do with you.

Tell me anyway.

The Single Best Anti-Gun-Death Policy? Ending the Drug War - Noah Smith - The Atlantic

I actually started a thread about it before I saw the Atlantic piece.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/268905-surefire-way-to-reduce-gun-violence.html

Lol! "you won't like it"?

Its funny how impressions can form on the interwebs. I am agaisnt the war on drugs, and I wouldn't oppose legalizing recreational drugs. I don't think the government should have a say in what someone else puts in their body.

It would also significantly decrease gun violence, without taking away anyone's guns.

 

[FA_Q2]

I never claimed crime was lower. I said gun crime is. As to anything involving crime per US city or US state, that's not what we were discussing.

No, you contended that gun crime in other nations was lower because of their gun control laws.

'Gun' crime is a pointless statistic. As was stated in the thread that you obviously did not read, using the term 'gun 'crime to claim that those laws were working when, in fact, homicide rates ROSE (MORE people were killed) is downright dishonest. You might want to color the argument using statistics that are meaningless but it does not help you. Further, the provided information shows that not just in US cities but even in Britton such laws had no discernable impact whatsoever in homicide rates. This is exactly what we are discussing. Just because you want to ignore any data that does not fit into your preconceived conclusions does not make the data false.

In essence, if 100 people are shot to death in Anywhere, Minnesota and a total of 120 people were killed in a homicide YOU are claiming that a strict gun control law passed resulting in 10 people being shot to death but an overall homicide rate rising to 500 is a victory.

That is not logical at all. It is downright insane.

Also, I note that you STILL have not provided any actual data to back up your claims. You want to compare 'gun' crimes with other nations when the real crime rates have nothing to do with gun control. They have FAR more to do with culture. Whether or not Americans want to admit it, we have a fairly violent culture.

 

[Noomi]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I voted 'other' for a mixture of things.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

4. Mentally ill people, and those suspected of suffering a mental illness, should not be allowed to purchase a gun. If they are able to purchase a gun, the person responsible for selling it to them should be fined.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.


I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Check the list of shootings in schools.

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

I wonder why that list doesn't the Appalachian School of Law shooting. Could it be because it was stopped by armed students?

The media doesn't trumpet ANY stories where the criminal is stopped by an armed victim.

Doesn't fit the 'narrative'....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I voted 'other' for a mixture of things.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

4. Mentally ill people, and those suspected of suffering a mental illness, should not be allowed to purchase a gun. If they are able to purchase a gun, the person responsible for selling it to them should be fined.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.


I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

What do you think a semi automatic does?

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

Should walmart also stop selling alcohol since alcohol contributes to a high number of motor vehicle deaths?

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

How does that stop anything? The back ground check is completed before any purchase is done.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

Should the little old lady who was convicted of shop lifting food be restricted from firearms?

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

You are a criminals best friend.
Stand your ground was a reaction to liberal laws that prevented citizens from defending themselves

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

So a child should never be trained on how to handle a firearm? A child should never be allowed to defend their lives? It's when you keep guns hidden from children when you have children being accidentally shot.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.

Why when judges will not enforce the laws already on the books or they allow the bond to be so low they can get out and flee?

I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings

You've said enough and is very weak.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Reasons" are immaterial, "shootings at schools" is the category.

And notice that the access to more deadly firearms lead to greater casualties.

Check the list of shootings in schools.

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

Did you bother to read your link, it includes accidental shooting, suicides, jilted lovers and a bunch of other incidents, but none of it negates the fact that over all crime has gone down and areas where concealed carry has passed has seen above average reductions.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It should be included.

Check the list of shootings in schools.

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wonder why that list doesn't the Appalachian School of Law shooting. Could it be because it was stopped by armed students?

The media doesn't trumpet ANY stories where the criminal is stopped by an armed victim.

Doesn't fit the 'narrative'....

 

[martybegan]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I voted 'other' for a mixture of things.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

4. Mentally ill people, and those suspected of suffering a mental illness, should not be allowed to purchase a gun. If they are able to purchase a gun, the person responsible for selling it to them should be fined.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.


I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings.

1. Firearm act of 1934. We already ban automatic weapons unless you get a very hard to get federal permit, and the permission of your local law enforcement, who can say "no" for whatever reason.

2. Why? walmart can do background checks just as easy or easier than some local gun stores. They can easily afford the required comm gear.

3. Unessasary restriction on rights. So some woman being beat up by her husband and leaves her has to wait 30 days to protect herself?

4. Due process applies. if we go with suspected mental illness, then local or state governments can abuse this.

4a. Felons already cannot buy legal guns, and in most places if you have a violent misdemeanor or a domesticn assualt rap you are banned as well.

5. So bascially we go back to a time where you have to take a punch before you defend yourself? Removing those laws prefers the aggressor in a situation.

6. If parents want to teach thier kids to shoot and handle a firearm safely, who the fuck are you to tell them what to do?

7. Most criminals who do home invasions have already been to jail. More jailtime will not deter them.

 

[Pogo]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I voted 'other' for a mixture of things.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

4. Mentally ill people, and those suspected of suffering a mental illness, should not be allowed to purchase a gun. If they are able to purchase a gun, the person responsible for selling it to them should be fined.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.


I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings.

1. Firearm act of 1934. We already ban automatic weapons unless you get a very hard to get federal permit, and the permission of your local law enforcement, who can say "no" for whatever reason.

2. Why? walmart can do background checks just as easy or easier than some local gun stores. They can easily afford the required comm gear.

3. Unessasary restriction on rights. So some woman being beat up by her husband and leaves her has to wait 30 days to protect herself?

4. Due process applies. if we go with suspected mental illness, then local or state governments can abuse this.

4a. Felons already cannot buy legal guns, and in most places if you have a violent misdemeanor or a domesticn assualt rap you are banned as well.

5. So bascially we go back to a time where you have to take a punch before you defend yourself? Removing those laws prefers the aggressor in a situation.

6. If parents want to teach thier kids to shoot and handle a firearm safely, who the fuck are you to tell them what to do?

7. Most criminals who do home invasions have already been to jail. More jailtime will not deter them.

That was a pretty good list. I might temper #6, minus the "who the fuck are you" hair-on-fire emotionalist meltdown, which is a manifestation of why certain people shouldn't be near a firearm-- because their hair's on fire.

But put it under licensed adult supervision, like a learner's permit, since there's still such a thing as hunting.

The same hair-on-fire rule goes for #3. If you have a good reason to shoot something, it'll still be a good reason in 30 days.

But as for the objection to #2 ---- when's the last time you tried to intelligently communicate with a Mal-Wart employee? Noomi has it right, selling guns in a supermarket is abjectly absurd. It never should have started. Ridiculously easy access is part and parcel of the whole problem.

Seven years ago when Katrina shut down New Orleans and the joint was temporarily taken over by lawless thugs shooting at everything including rescue workers, where did these thugs get their guns? The Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas, right down from the convention center. One stop "shopping"; you bust in the door and just follow the signs. The fact that we put firearms on the same consumer level as cheap bread and cheap sweatshop clothing and cheap televisions is maybe the most poignant commentary on the depth of our perversion.

 

[AmyNation]

I never claimed crime was lower. I said gun crime is. As to anything involving crime per US city or US state, that's not what we were discussing.

No, you contended that gun crime in other nations was lower because of their gun control laws.

'Gun' crime is a pointless statistic. As was stated in the thread that you obviously did not read, using the term 'gun 'crime to claim that those laws were working when, in fact, homicide rates ROSE (MORE people were killed) is downright dishonest. You might want to color the argument using statistics that are meaningless but it does not help you. Further, the provided information shows that not just in US cities but even in Britton such laws had no discernable impact whatsoever in homicide rates. This is exactly what we are discussing. Just because you want to ignore any data that does not fit into your preconceived conclusions does not make the data false.

In essence, if 100 people are shot to death in Anywhere, Minnesota and a total of 120 people were killed in a homicide YOU are claiming that a strict gun control law passed resulting in 10 people being shot to death but an overall homicide rate rising to 500 is a victory.

That is not logical at all. It is downright insane.

Also, I note that you STILL have not provided any actual data to back up your claims. You want to compare 'gun' crimes with other nations when the real crime rates have nothing to do with gun control. They have FAR more to do with culture. Whether or not Americans want to admit it, we have a fairly violent culture.

Did you read my origional statement? Because if you don't actually feel like addressing what I say, there are plenty of posters who would be happy to argue gun control with you.

 

[Katzndogz]

There are hundreds of laws regulating guns right now. Depending on the state there are hundreds more. When a person cannot legally own a gun, they illegally own a gun. They buy them from criminals who also break dozens of laws by selling them. The guns are not bought at WalMart or any legal store. They are not bought on line. They are bought from known illegal arms sellers who get them the same way drug dealers get drugs, smuggled in. Untraceable. Registration was supposed to stop the illegal sales of firearms. People would stop buying guns on the street and buy them from legal sellers, and go through a background check. That's what legalization was supposed to do, it just didn't work out that way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Make legalization and registration mandatory.

Violations should be penalized with a minimum five-year term in prison.

 

[FA_Q2]

I never claimed crime was lower. I said gun crime is. As to anything involving crime per US city or US state, that's not what we were discussing.

No, you contended that gun crime in other nations was lower because of their gun control laws.

'Gun' crime is a pointless statistic. As was stated in the thread that you obviously did not read, using the term 'gun 'crime to claim that those laws were working when, in fact, homicide rates ROSE (MORE people were killed) is downright dishonest. You might want to color the argument using statistics that are meaningless but it does not help you. Further, the provided information shows that not just in US cities but even in Britton such laws had no discernable impact whatsoever in homicide rates. This is exactly what we are discussing. Just because you want to ignore any data that does not fit into your preconceived conclusions does not make the data false.

In essence, if 100 people are shot to death in Anywhere, Minnesota and a total of 120 people were killed in a homicide YOU are claiming that a strict gun control law passed resulting in 10 people being shot to death but an overall homicide rate rising to 500 is a victory.

That is not logical at all. It is downright insane.

Also, I note that you STILL have not provided any actual data to back up your claims. You want to compare 'gun' crimes with other nations when the real crime rates have nothing to do with gun control. They have FAR more to do with culture. Whether or not Americans want to admit it, we have a fairly violent culture.

Did you read my origional statement? Because if you don't actually feel like addressing what I say, there are plenty of posters who would be happy to argue gun control with you.

Are you claiming gun crime in countries where guns are illegal is significantly lower than the US, is just a coincidence?

Still no facts. Still changing the goalposts and directly lying about what your claims are and still avoiding any rational discussion.

 

[Noomi]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I voted 'other' for a mixture of things.

1. Ban some guns - only those capable of firing one bullet at a time should be legal. Any other gun should only be used by those in law inforcement, or the military, etc.

2. Stop selling guns at Walmart. You should never sell guns at a supermarket, its ridiculous.

3. A 30 day waiting period between the purchase of a gun and the time you can actually take it home. During this 30 day period, an extensive background check will be carried out.

4. Mentally ill people, and those suspected of suffering a mental illness, should not be allowed to purchase a gun. If they are able to purchase a gun, the person responsible for selling it to them should be fined.

4. Those convicted of a criminal offense - any offense - should not be allowed to purchase a firearm. If they are able to, the same as above should apply.

5. Scrap 'Stand Your Ground' laws. This law has led to far too many unjustified shootings.

6. No child aged under 18 should be allowed to handle a firearm. This means no taking five year olds to a shooting range, or giving a child a gun for an Xmas gift.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.


I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings.

What do you think a semi automatic does?


Should walmart also stop selling alcohol since alcohol contributes to a high number of motor vehicle deaths?


How does that stop anything? The back ground check is completed before any purchase is done.


Should the little old lady who was convicted of shop lifting food be restricted from firearms?


You are a criminals best friend.
Stand your ground was a reaction to liberal laws that prevented citizens from defending themselves


So a child should never be trained on how to handle a firearm? A child should never be allowed to defend their lives? It's when you keep guns hidden from children when you have children being accidentally shot.

7. Harsher penalties for those convicted of a home invasion. If a home invasion occurs (and this will depend on the definition of 'invasion') an immediate life sentence should be handed down. This may deter criminals from committing such a crime and will therefore possibly reduce the number of deaths caused by such crimes - most home invasions involve a firearm.

Why when judges will not enforce the laws already on the books or they allow the bond to be so low they can get out and flee?

I could probably think of more, but those are just 7 - that don't take your guns away, but that might help prevent shootings

You've said enough and is very weak.

Okay, so how about this:

Give every kid a gun and let them shoot it as often as they like. Sell guns in every supermarket in the country and have only a two minute background check. Let criminals have guns because hey, someone might try and kill them and they may need to defend themselves, any hey, lets just every single person in the country walking around with a firearm, because that is sure to stop mass shootings!!!

 

[Darkwind]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I chose 'other'.

Because that 'other' falls under the category of nothing. We should do nothing with regard to guns.

 

[Noomi]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I chose 'other'.

Because that 'other' falls under the category of nothing. We should do nothing with regard to guns.

So the murders of 20 innocent kids did nothing to sway you?

 

[Darkwind]

Going to use some broad categories here.

I chose 'other'.

Because that 'other' falls under the category of nothing. We should do nothing with regard to guns.

So the murders of 20 innocent kids did nothing to sway you?

No, it did not. Before you start calling Me names and how I am some kind of monster for not allowing My rage and grieving to do My thinking for Me, I'll reiterate once more.

In a nation that has over 300 million people, and over 270 million guns, the chances of getting killed by one is nearly non-existent.

What happened is a tragedy. But if the same number of kids had been in an airplane crash, would you be screaming that we need to ban flight?

People, and yes children, have been dying and have been killed since the inception of our species. The world is NOT a safe place and no amount of effort will EVER prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

I will not do harm to others just to ease My grief.