Police State: CA Approves $500 Fines For 'Wasting Water'...

[dilloduck]

I hear ya. But i am interested in how Big Brother plans to enforce this. Round-the-Clock surveillance? And what if the Fines aren't paid? Will there be arrests & imprisonment?

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Why is it so difficult for good libs as yourself to come up with a solution other than taxing or fining?

They can't steal your money if you get jailed instead of fined.

 

[bendog]

Good ole Government. Always there to help ya out, huh? The 'War on Water-Wasters' has begun. Interesting to see how Big Brother will enforce these Laws. Maybe declare the Water-Wasters 'Terrorists?' Who knows? Nothing would surprise me at this point.


Reservoirs are running dry, the Capitol's lawn has turned brown, and farmers have left hundreds of thousands of acres unplanted.

Even so, many Californians aren't taking the drought seriously. State water regulators are trying to change that by imposing fines up to $500 a day for wasting water.

The State Water Resources Control Board acted Tuesday amid warnings that conditions could get worse if it doesn't rain this winter.

City and suburban residents often are not fully aware of the seriousness of the three-year drought - the worst in California since the mid-1970s, board Chairwoman Felicia Marcus said in an interview after the 4-0 vote.

The vote is historic, she said, not only because the steps are unprecedented in California but because the board is trying to spread the burden of the drought beyond farmers and agencies that are trying to protect wildlife.

"We're all in this together," Marcus said.

Yet consumption throughout the state actually rose by 1 percent in May, according to a report from the board, while Gov. Jerry Brown is seeking a 20 percent reduction in water use.

"We're taking the prudent step of taking action as if it's not going to rain for more years, because we know that's possible," Marcus said.

The fines will apply only to wasteful outdoor water use, including watering landscaping to the point that runoff...

More:
News from The Associated Press
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®

Stamping your tiny feet is not cute.

 

[Mad Scientist]

If you don't pay a fine you will be directed to appear in court. After you have done your big brother rant the court will order you to pay. When you don't, you will be sentenced to jail. It's really that simple, why it is so hard for Libertarians to understand explains all we need to know about Libertarians.

Are these fines levied by the local government or the water authority?

Designated city/county employees and special district employees.

Where do they get their Authority to Tax or Levy fines? Where the Law signed by Governor Brown?

 

[Nutz]

Are these fines levied by the local government or the water authority?

Designated city/county employees and special district employees.

Where do they get their Authority to Tax or Levy fines? Where the Law signed by Governor Brown?

Localities can't levy fines? They do it all of the time.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who said you can't do that?

Wars have been fought over water rights. Their is nothing the matter with water conservation nor is it a sign of a police state. You guys might think differently if there were no conservation efforts and water is rationed.

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

If you purchased water from "water supplier" you could use it for whatever legal purpose you wanted, but why post a non sequitur/red herring?

Why is purchasing water from a public utility any different?

I am paying for the water in both instances am I not?

Once I pay for the water I have the right to use that water any way I see fit don't I?

 

[Nutz]

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

If you purchased water from "water supplier" you could use it for whatever legal purpose you wanted, but why post a non sequitur/red herring?

Why is purchasing water from a public utility any different?

I am paying for the water in both instances am I not?

Once I pay for the water I have the right to use that water any way I see fit don't I?

You are buying water from an unprotected source, not a protected source that is being conserved for more important uses.

 

[martybegan]

The point I was making sailed right over your head.

What's the difference if I buy my water from a private business or a public utility?

Either way I am paying for the water I use. Once I pay for it it is mine to do with as I see fit.

If you purchased water from "water supplier" you could use it for whatever legal purpose you wanted, but why post a non sequitur/red herring?

Why is purchasing water from a public utility any different?

I am paying for the water in both instances am I not?

Once I pay for the water I have the right to use that water any way I see fit don't I?

Try using that line of logic with gasoline, gunpowder, or bullets and see how far that gets you.

The utility does not have an easy method of restricting your use during times of emergency. The other option, jacking up water prices during drought unfairly impacts those who do conserve, unless you can have a meter that is able to bill you like $5 a gallon after your basic daily allotment.

Its far easier to say "save water by doing certain things or we will fine you" then implementing the methods above.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Designated city/county employees and special district employees.

Where do they get their Authority to Tax or Levy fines? Where the Law signed by Governor Brown?

Localities can't levy fines? They do it all of the time.

Yes I understand that they DO IT all the time. I understand the people have been paying these fines.

My question is: Where does their Authority to Levy Fines come from? What Law are they using to Levy these Fines?

Again, it sounds like another easy to beat ticket to me.

 

[martybegan]

A fine illustration of libertarians acting as sullen teenagers, endlessly screaming "YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!".

Record drought? Bah. Public good? No such thing. Every single thing is entirely about the rights of the poor libertarians to do whatever they damn well please, no matter who it harms.

Like other grownups, I understand that it's not all about me, and that I don't always get to do what I want, and it doesn't make me a victim of statist tyranny when I don't get to do what I want. Most libertarians never reached that level of maturity.

If you privatize the supply of fresh water and charge according to the laws of supply and demand, any shortage would disappear immediately.

Do we really want people bidding for water during a drought?

I agree the free market is usually the best solution, but for certain things it creates more issues than it solves.

 

[paulitician]

You damn 'Excessive Toilet-Flushers' are next. You're no better than the Terrorists. You will be dealt with. HEIL BIG BROTHER!!

 

[Nutz]

Where do they get their Authority to Tax or Levy fines? Where the Law signed by Governor Brown?

Localities can't levy fines? They do it all of the time.

Yes I understand that they DO IT all the time. I understand the people have been paying these fines.

My question is: Where does their Authority to Levy Fines come from? What Law are they using to Levy these Fines?

Again, it sounds like another easy to beat ticket to me.

Not really. I don't see the point in arguing the fact that localities have the authority to levy fines and I don't see it as an easy to beat ticket.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Good ole Government. Always there to help ya out, huh? The 'War on Water-Wasters' has begun. Interesting to see how Big Brother will enforce these Laws. Maybe declare the Water-Wasters 'Terrorists?' Who knows? Nothing would surprise me at this point.


Reservoirs are running dry, the Capitol's lawn has turned brown, and farmers have left hundreds of thousands of acres unplanted.

Even so, many Californians aren't taking the drought seriously. State water regulators are trying to change that by imposing fines up to $500 a day for wasting water.

The State Water Resources Control Board acted Tuesday amid warnings that conditions could get worse if it doesn't rain this winter.

City and suburban residents often are not fully aware of the seriousness of the three-year drought - the worst in California since the mid-1970s, board Chairwoman Felicia Marcus said in an interview after the 4-0 vote.

The vote is historic, she said, not only because the steps are unprecedented in California but because the board is trying to spread the burden of the drought beyond farmers and agencies that are trying to protect wildlife.

"We're all in this together," Marcus said.

Yet consumption throughout the state actually rose by 1 percent in May, according to a report from the board, while Gov. Jerry Brown is seeking a 20 percent reduction in water use.

"We're taking the prudent step of taking action as if it's not going to rain for more years, because we know that's possible," Marcus said.

The fines will apply only to wasteful outdoor water use, including watering landscaping to the point that runoff...

More:
News from The Associated Press
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®

So, in the name of "freedom" idiots should be allowed to waste water and make everyone else suffer because of their idiocy?????

Not a very good case for Libertarianism.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The utility does not have an easy method of restricting your use during times of emergency. The other option, jacking up water prices during drought unfairly impacts those who do conserve, unless you can have a meter that is able to bill you like $5 a gallon after your basic daily allotment.

Just from a technical standpoint Marty...


Meters don't charge anything. Meters measure how much of an entity (gas, water, air, etc.) pass through the measuring device. The computation of how much to charge is don't in the computers located back at the billing office. The system is that on date "A" the meter reading was "X", on date "B" (usually a month or two after date "A") a second meter "Y" is taken. The will is then (Y-X)*Rate = Cost.

So it would be pretty easy to charge $5 per gallon if use exceeds a given monthly value.

Not very helpful though because the bill will be coming in a month or two later.



>>>>

 

[martybegan]

The utility does not have an easy method of restricting your use during times of emergency. The other option, jacking up water prices during drought unfairly impacts those who do conserve, unless you can have a meter that is able to bill you like $5 a gallon after your basic daily allotment.

Just from a technical standpoint Marty...


Meters don't charge anything. Meters measure how much of an entity (gas, water, air, etc.) pass through the measuring device. The computation of how much to charge is don't in the computers located back at the billing office. The system is that on date "A" the meter reading was "X", on date "B" (usually a month or two after date "A") a second meter "Y" is taken. The will is then (Y-X)*Rate = Cost.

So it would be pretty easy to charge $5 per gallon if use exceeds a given monthly value.

Not very helpful though because the bill will be coming in a month or two later.



>>>>

I work in Water and Wastewater Engineering, so yes, i do grasp the functioning of a water meter.

The issue is you wouldn't want to ration monthly, it would have to be daily for it to have an impact, and for the impact of the price increase to be felt. You wait a month, and people will refuse to pay/call their alderman/rail against the utility for being greedy, etc.

its far easier to announce restrictions, and fine those who do not follow them.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The utility does not have an easy method of restricting your use during times of emergency. The other option, jacking up water prices during drought unfairly impacts those who do conserve, unless you can have a meter that is able to bill you like $5 a gallon after your basic daily allotment.

Just from a technical standpoint Marty...


Meters don't charge anything. Meters measure how much of an entity (gas, water, air, etc.) pass through the measuring device. The computation of how much to charge is don't in the computers located back at the billing office. The system is that on date "A" the meter reading was "X", on date "B" (usually a month or two after date "A") a second meter "Y" is taken. The will is then (Y-X)*Rate = Cost.

So it would be pretty easy to charge $5 per gallon if use exceeds a given monthly value.

Not very helpful though because the bill will be coming in a month or two later.



>>>>

I work in Water and Wastewater Engineering, so yes, i do grasp the functioning of a water meter.

The issue is you wouldn't want to ration monthly, it would have to be daily for it to have an impact, and for the impact of the price increase to be felt. You wait a month, and people will refuse to pay/call their alderman/rail against the utility for being greedy, etc.

its far easier to announce restrictions, and fine those who do not follow them.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that finding out a month or two later that you used to much water and are then paying a higher rate isn't practical.

I was just pointing out to the non-technical types that meters don't set the bill, the meters measure volume used over time, it's computer that set the bill and that the time between consumption, reading, and billing can be longer.

I do seem to remember something a couple of years ago about smart-meters that actually could report consumption wirelessly or through the homes communication system, but those were for electrical meters.



>>>>

 

[bendog]

Just from a technical standpoint Marty...


Meters don't charge anything. Meters measure how much of an entity (gas, water, air, etc.) pass through the measuring device. The computation of how much to charge is don't in the computers located back at the billing office. The system is that on date "A" the meter reading was "X", on date "B" (usually a month or two after date "A") a second meter "Y" is taken. The will is then (Y-X)*Rate = Cost.

So it would be pretty easy to charge $5 per gallon if use exceeds a given monthly value.

Not very helpful though because the bill will be coming in a month or two later.



>>>>

I work in Water and Wastewater Engineering, so yes, i do grasp the functioning of a water meter.

The issue is you wouldn't want to ration monthly, it would have to be daily for it to have an impact, and for the impact of the price increase to be felt. You wait a month, and people will refuse to pay/call their alderman/rail against the utility for being greedy, etc.

its far easier to announce restrictions, and fine those who do not follow them.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that finding out a month or two later that you used to much water and are then paying a higher rate isn't practical.

I was just pointing out to the non-technical types that meters don't set the bill, the meters measure volume used over time, it's computer that set the bill and that the time between consumption, reading, and billing can be longer.

I do seem to remember something a couple of years ago about smart-meters that actually could report consumption wirelessly or through the homes communication system, but those were for electrical meters.



>>>>

We could use drones with that intel transmitted up to them, and they could then target offending homeowners for very very timely intervention. (-:

 

[Mad Scientist]

Not really. I don't see the point in arguing the fact that localities have the authority to levy fines and I don't see it as an easy to beat ticket.

So where is the LAW that says they can?

The State Legislature passes a Bill that gets signed into LAW by the Governor.

"Rules" are not "Laws".

I'm looking at the California State Constitution (cause non of YOU f*cksticks will) and I see only "Legislature" as being the Taxing Authority.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_13

Would someone show me where The State Water Resources Control Board gets it's Authority to Tax you OR Fine you from?

 

[Nutz]

Not really. I don't see the point in arguing the fact that localities have the authority to levy fines and I don't see it as an easy to beat ticket.

So where is the LAW that says they can?

The State Legislature passes a Bill that gets signed into LAW by the Governor.

"Rules" are not "Laws".

I'm looking at the California State Constitution (cause non of YOU f*cksticks will) and I see only "Legislature" as being the Taxing Authority.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_13

Would someone show me where The State Water Resources Control Board gets it's Authority to Tax you OR Fine you from?

Yet localities fine and tax its citizens all of the time. There are 200+ years of case law if you think there is a loophole.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you purchased water from "water supplier" you could use it for whatever legal purpose you wanted, but why post a non sequitur/red herring?

Why is purchasing water from a public utility any different?

I am paying for the water in both instances am I not?

Once I pay for the water I have the right to use that water any way I see fit don't I?

You are buying water from an unprotected source, not a protected source that is being conserved for more important uses.

So once I buy the water it's not mine?

Then why sell it at all? Why not just say each person is rationed 3 gallons a day?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Why is purchasing water from a public utility any different?

I am paying for the water in both instances am I not?

Once I pay for the water I have the right to use that water any way I see fit don't I?

You are buying water from an unprotected source, not a protected source that is being conserved for more important uses.

So once I buy the water it's not mine?

Then why sell it at all? Why not just say each person is rationed 3 gallons a day?

OK - fair enough.

Tell me how you do that?