Please prove to me that blacks are our equals?

[editec]

Please prove to me that blacks are our equals?

I will the moment you prove to me that you are MY equal.


Thus far you haven't.

 

[NoNukes]

Please prove to me that blacks are our equals?

I will the moment you prove to me that you are MY equal.


Thus far you haven't.

Posting in bold black print confuses Daveman.

 

[BBCAmerica]

These people don't even bring real data to the debate...Yet, they can say this shit, ianc. These anti-racist make me laugh.

I posted the 4th and 8th grade data for every race and state a few post above yours.

You keep posting public school data. I already told you that this is old news. The new news is why is this data not the same when comparing home schooled kids or the black kids that attend the Harlem Children's Zone.
If this IQ shit is really real then how how can 100% of a poor black school out perform the entire state of NY?


PROMISE ACADEMY

100% of third graders at Promise Academies I and II tested at or above grade level on the math exam, outperforming their peers in New York State, New York City, District 5, and black and white students throughout the state

Over 98% of Promise Academy II's students scored at or above grade level on the math exam, outperforming their counterparts in New York State, New York City and District 5, as well as black and white students in New York State

In English and Language Arts (ELA), over 93% of Promise Academy I third graders tested at or above grade level, outperforming New York State, New York City and District 5 peers, as well as black and white students in New York State

Over 84% of Promise Academy II's students scored at or above grade level in ELA, outperforming on average their counterparts in New York State, New York City and District 5, as well as black students in New York City

In 2008, 93% of Promise Academy High School ninth graders passed the statewide Algebra Regents exam.

BBCA- Im not sure of what you want me to take away from your link to HCZ. Canada has certainly done an excellent job but I dont see that comparing the results of a school where the student/teacher ratio is 6/1, the classroom hours are extended (almost double), no teacher's union to deal with, parental involvement is mandated, funding is tripled by donations, and Canada's charisma and leadership is given free reign, compared to average schools is meaningful.

here is an illustrative anecdote. I sent my kids to a small catholic high school where literally half of the incoming grade 8 boys were on the football team every year. they won the provincial championship 10 years in a row despite being considerably smaller in size than almost any other team. the odds against that happening are many billions to one. do you think it was outstanding atheletic prowess, or outstanding coaching combined with more practise?

how many examples can you show me of schools where black and white students, under the same conditions, do equally as well? they are as rare as hen's teeth, that's why 'reasons' are needed so that the disparity can be blamed on something. any reason besides the obvious measured difference in intelligence, that is.

I think that 100 IQ100 blacks would outperform 100 IQ85 whites in a school setting under equal conditions. I dont particularly care about race at all, I care about the obvious relationship that intelligence has with social traits.

Good observation Ian. But when there is a discussion on how much smarter whites are that blacks it seems that whites are always willing to take the loss against Asians. But never do we talk about how much Asian kids study compared to American kids.
Ok we take HCZ out of the mix because those kids get a far better education than public schools.
Let's discuss white kids and black kid that get better educations than public school kids.
Let's talk home schooled kids. Home schooled kids test far better than public school kids yet the achievement among home schooled kids in almost non existent across ALL races. No race or nationality does any better than than another. So if blacks are TRULY not as intelligent then how can this be? How can a less intelligent black kid do as good as a more intelligent white kid? How can the less intelligent white kid do just as well as the more intelligent asian kid?

 

[BBCAmerica]

You guys haven't disproven any of Matthew's major points. Blacks as a group are more violent and less intelligent. That isn't a racist slur, its a statement of measured fact. The only argument you guys have is that blacks would be smarter and less violent if they were some how treated better. Well, whites would be more successful if they were treated better as well. Not only that, but the dividend for improving conditions for poor and dull whites would be higher.

Prove what? His data is suspect and current statiscal research such as longitudinal studies show different results.

As far as intelligence its controversial and many time participating subjects may come bad backgrounds. If in fact there is some real significance then studies would include confounding variables such as environment, level of education of the parents, etc

I entertained this long enough though.

the problem is that many people just dont think any of this through, and confuse the different aspects.

I believe that intelligence is the biggest factor in human success. it is certianly not the only factor, just the most important, the one that explains life trajectories better than anything else we can attempt to measure.

all intelligence tests, for as long as tests have been around, find that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower than whites. tens of millions of data points in IQ tests, SATs, ACT, aptitude tests, etc, etc. there is no doubt that blacks as a group have less of the brain processing skills that we consider the basic building blocks of 'intelligence'.

you can't argue the existence of the gap but you can argue the reason for it. genetics is the biggest factor in body physiology, which includes the brain and how it functions. it is certainly not the only factor, just the most important one which explains body type and development better than anything else we can measure.

genetics is the reason behind the different size and shape of brains, the speed of impulses and the number of connections, etc, etc. MRI has vastly improved the ability to measure the parts of the brain that are intimately involved with thought and reasoning. the correlation coefficients make other types of scientists weep with envy. blacks follow the same rules of genetic inheritance as any other group but one of the most interesting aspects is that (american) blacks follow a 'regression to the mean' back to IQ85, whereas whites regress towards IQ100.

let's talk about environment, which includes culture. at the time of conception every baby has a genetically controlled top potential for intelligence. environment only reduces this potential, it cannot improve it. none of us ever achieves our top potential. this is where the leftist talking points come in. extremely bad nutrition, or injury, or illness can physically reduce the ability of the brain to grow and function. I am unaware of any studies that show traumatic injuries and illness so prevelent in blacks that there is measurable decrease in brain function. nor are there sizable portions of the black population that live under the extreme famine conditions that stunt tissue growth, in fact I believe obesity is much more common but I fail to see the mechanism of brain insult from being fat.

next comes the bad schools, low expectations, racism excuses. a child may not learn as much in a poor school but how does that get into his brain and damage it? are low expectations the product of racism or simply a realistic adaptation to the child's abilities? again, what is the mechanism that reaches in and damages the kid's brain? intelligence is there whether you measure it or not. why do poor schools, poor parents, crummy surroundings seem to effect blacks so much more than whites? why do blacks under favourable conditions still underperform whites under bad conditions? is there some mysterious 'factor X' that only affects blacks? dont laugh, it has been looked for and even proposed as an excuse (with a straight face).

culture is an excuse for under performance caused by bad character BUT it is not is not an excuse for the physical differences in brain activity that correlate to intelligence levels.

to sum up - real difference in intelligence that can be measured either by test or by physiological differences. principally controlled by genetics that operate the same way in all races. poorly understood environmental component that defies logical correlation and a physical basis of explanation, which affects blacks all out of proportion to other races.

Occam's Razor is needed here to cut away the bullshit that is needed to turn reality into 'everybody is equal in every way'.

PS the Armed Forces only accepts recruits with IQ90+. they tried taking lower, once on purpose and once by accident, and it was a disaster. so IQ90 is pretty close to the cut off for a trainable competent human that can be expected to perform a standard technology based job. most blacks are unable to meet the requirements.

Glad you brought that military thing. We always hear stats that put black folks in a negative light but ever wonder why you never get stats on blacks in the military? Because there is a shit load of them. The forces that protect your life are made up of 30% black folks.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Watching the racialists natter on about their fundamentally flawed premises amazes those who are superior to them in intellect, education, and decency.

Blacks made up almost 40% of the US Army 1980. They have always served in far greater numbers proportionally to their population.

 

[IanC]

Prove what? His data is suspect and current statiscal research such as longitudinal studies show different results.

As far as intelligence its controversial and many time participating subjects may come bad backgrounds. If in fact there is some real significance then studies would include confounding variables such as environment, level of education of the parents, etc

I entertained this long enough though.

the problem is that many people just dont think any of this through, and confuse the different aspects.

I believe that intelligence is the biggest factor in human success. it is certianly not the only factor, just the most important, the one that explains life trajectories better than anything else we can attempt to measure.

all intelligence tests, for as long as tests have been around, find that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower than whites. tens of millions of data points in IQ tests, SATs, ACT, aptitude tests, etc, etc. there is no doubt that blacks as a group have less of the brain processing skills that we consider the basic building blocks of 'intelligence'.

you can't argue the existence of the gap but you can argue the reason for it. genetics is the biggest factor in body physiology, which includes the brain and how it functions. it is certainly not the only factor, just the most important one which explains body type and development better than anything else we can measure.

genetics is the reason behind the different size and shape of brains, the speed of impulses and the number of connections, etc, etc. MRI has vastly improved the ability to measure the parts of the brain that are intimately involved with thought and reasoning. the correlation coefficients make other types of scientists weep with envy. blacks follow the same rules of genetic inheritance as any other group but one of the most interesting aspects is that (american) blacks follow a 'regression to the mean' back to IQ85, whereas whites regress towards IQ100.

let's talk about environment, which includes culture. at the time of conception every baby has a genetically controlled top potential for intelligence. environment only reduces this potential, it cannot improve it. none of us ever achieves our top potential. this is where the leftist talking points come in. extremely bad nutrition, or injury, or illness can physically reduce the ability of the brain to grow and function. I am unaware of any studies that show traumatic injuries and illness so prevelent in blacks that there is measurable decrease in brain function. nor are there sizable portions of the black population that live under the extreme famine conditions that stunt tissue growth, in fact I believe obesity is much more common but I fail to see the mechanism of brain insult from being fat.

next comes the bad schools, low expectations, racism excuses. a child may not learn as much in a poor school but how does that get into his brain and damage it? are low expectations the product of racism or simply a realistic adaptation to the child's abilities? again, what is the mechanism that reaches in and damages the kid's brain? intelligence is there whether you measure it or not. why do poor schools, poor parents, crummy surroundings seem to effect blacks so much more than whites? why do blacks under favourable conditions still underperform whites under bad conditions? is there some mysterious 'factor X' that only affects blacks? dont laugh, it has been looked for and even proposed as an excuse (with a straight face).

culture is an excuse for under performance caused by bad character BUT it is not is not an excuse for the physical differences in brain activity that correlate to intelligence levels.

to sum up - real difference in intelligence that can be measured either by test or by physiological differences. principally controlled by genetics that operate the same way in all races. poorly understood environmental component that defies logical correlation and a physical basis of explanation, which affects blacks all out of proportion to other races.

Occam's Razor is needed here to cut away the bullshit that is needed to turn reality into 'everybody is equal in every way'.

PS the Armed Forces only accepts recruits with IQ90+. they tried taking lower, once on purpose and once by accident, and it was a disaster. so IQ90 is pretty close to the cut off for a trainable competent human that can be expected to perform a standard technology based job. most blacks are unable to meet the requirements.

Glad you brought that military thing. We always hear stats that put black folks in a negative light but ever wonder why you never get stats on blacks in the military? Because there is a shit load of them. The forces that protect your life are made up of 30% black folks.

there is a distinct reason why there is less racial problems within the Armed Forces. by imposing the IQ90 threshhold for recruits, the military has severely curtailed the intelligence gap between races.

 

[IanC]

You keep posting public school data. I already told you that this is old news. The new news is why is this data not the same when comparing home schooled kids or the black kids that attend the Harlem Children's Zone.
If this IQ shit is really real then how how can 100% of a poor black school out perform the entire state of NY?


PROMISE ACADEMY

100% of third graders at Promise Academies I and II tested at or above grade level on the math exam, outperforming their peers in New York State, New York City, District 5, and black and white students throughout the state

Over 98% of Promise Academy II's students scored at or above grade level on the math exam, outperforming their counterparts in New York State, New York City and District 5, as well as black and white students in New York State

In English and Language Arts (ELA), over 93% of Promise Academy I third graders tested at or above grade level, outperforming New York State, New York City and District 5 peers, as well as black and white students in New York State

Over 84% of Promise Academy II's students scored at or above grade level in ELA, outperforming on average their counterparts in New York State, New York City and District 5, as well as black students in New York City

In 2008, 93% of Promise Academy High School ninth graders passed the statewide Algebra Regents exam.

BBCA- Im not sure of what you want me to take away from your link to HCZ. Canada has certainly done an excellent job but I dont see that comparing the results of a school where the student/teacher ratio is 6/1, the classroom hours are extended (almost double), no teacher's union to deal with, parental involvement is mandated, funding is tripled by donations, and Canada's charisma and leadership is given free reign, compared to average schools is meaningful.

here is an illustrative anecdote. I sent my kids to a small catholic high school where literally half of the incoming grade 8 boys were on the football team every year. they won the provincial championship 10 years in a row despite being considerably smaller in size than almost any other team. the odds against that happening are many billions to one. do you think it was outstanding atheletic prowess, or outstanding coaching combined with more practise?

how many examples can you show me of schools where black and white students, under the same conditions, do equally as well? they are as rare as hen's teeth, that's why 'reasons' are needed so that the disparity can be blamed on something. any reason besides the obvious measured difference in intelligence, that is.

I think that 100 IQ100 blacks would outperform 100 IQ85 whites in a school setting under equal conditions. I dont particularly care about race at all, I care about the obvious relationship that intelligence has with social traits.

Good observation Ian. But when there is a discussion on how much smarter whites are that blacks it seems that whites are always willing to take the loss against Asians. But never do we talk about how much Asian kids study compared to American kids.
Ok we take HCZ out of the mix because those kids get a far better education than public schools.
Let's discuss white kids and black kid that get better educations than public school kids.
Let's talk home schooled kids. Home schooled kids test far better than public school kids yet the achievement among home schooled kids in almost non existent across ALL races. No race or nationality does any better than than another. So if blacks are TRULY not as intelligent then how can this be? How can a less intelligent black kid do as good as a more intelligent white kid? How can the less intelligent white kid do just as well as the more intelligent asian kid?

I havent really looked into homeschooled kids. like many other categories it imposes a restriction-of-range aspect. homeschooling parents have to be pretty confident of their own education and their ability to pass it along to their children. that alone would point to them being on the right side of the bell curve. smarter than average parents typically have smarter than average kids. therefor it is no surprise that homeschooled kids do better than the national average. info on homeschooled kids by race is something I have not seen. perhaps you can send along a few links. it would be appreciated.

 

[JakeStarkey]

IanC's comments clearly reveal the economic and socio-demographic impacts in public schooling in many of our districts. Intellect has little to do with it, apparently.

 

[IanC]

IanC's comments clearly reveal the economic and socio-demographic impacts in public schooling in many of our districts. Intellect has little to do with it, apparently.

I have no idea how anyone would come to that conclusion from my comments but let's go with it.

all fields of science look for correlations between factors, and then try to infer causation by the relative strengths in either direction. SocioeconomicStatus(SES) and IQ are two highly correlated factors. the question is "does IQ cause SES, or does SES cause IQ?". in mature adults (well into their career trajectory, no longer students) the correlation between SES and IQ is very strong, bright people make more money and have higher status jobs and homes. for dull people the opposite holds true.

you are trying to make the case that it is SES that drives the IQ, although you havent given any explanation, mechanism or data as to why you think that, other than the fact that the two are correlated.

IQ and SES are both heritable traits in as much as children tend to resemble their parents in both cases. the difficulty is how to tease out information as to which seems to be the more powerful factor. we can sample families with the same SES and look at the disparities caused by differing sibling IQs, and we can sample individuals with the same IQ and look at the disparities caused by differing childhood SESs. in both cases the correlation values show that IQ is more important.

of course these two scenarios are measured by the resulting SES, social success. does it matter what the IQ is, other than its linkage to social success?

as an aside, it seems like there are two threshhold values for IQ. it would seem that an IQ of around 115 is necessary for a technology based university education, and an IQ of around 85 is necessary to achieve and maintain a middle class lifestyle.


speaking of middle class lifestyles, the Coleman Report studied schools for disparate funding, buildings, teachers and students. it found that funding, buildings, classroom size and teachers were all less important than the quality of the students attending the school. peer attitude makes the biggest difference in actual educational achievement. lower class children did not seem attain success when grouped together, but did significantly better when placed in a school with predominantly middle class children. the M/C children did not seem to have any adverse effects until the school became more than 1/3 L/C. this was the basis for bussing.


now we have finally arrived at the racial aspect. average black IQ is 85. therefore we could predict about half of blacks would be middle class and half would be lower class. in areas which are predominantly black the individuals who have higher IQs and more social success move out, leaving the pool of remaining blacks with an even lower average IQ. this results in areas with few role models, lower class ethics, poor schools, and a poor human capital to start and sustain businesses and infrastructure. sound familiar?

 

[Huey]

The Nation's Top 10 Black-Owned Companies

The latest U.S. Census report on black-owned businesses shows a growth rate three times the national average. The 10 black-owned companies listed here are excellent models for those who aspire to economic independence.

low IQ's eh,now master this mister genius

 

[JakeStarkey]

IanC failed to tell you that he is plagiarizing from The Coleman Report, 1966. Yeah, 1966. The sod is lazy. He must be half white. Oh, he does not give you the background of Coleman, either. Ask him.

Here is a much better report to consider. You Win Some, You Lose Some: Explaining the Pattern of Success and Failure in the Second Reconstruction | Jennifer L. Hochschild

 

[Aristotle]

IanC failed to tell you that he is plagiarizing from The Coleman Report, 1966. Yeah, 1966. The sod is lazy. He must be half white. Oh, he does not give you the background of Coleman, either. Ask him.

Here is a much better report to consider. You Win Some, You Lose Some: Explaining the Pattern of Success and Failure in the Second Reconstruction | Jennifer L. Hochschild

Ouch Ianc plagerizing? Shame shame.

 

[IanC]

........
speaking of middle class lifestyles, the Coleman Report studied schools for disparate funding, buildings, teachers and students. it found that funding, buildings, classroom size and teachers were all less important than the quality of the students attending the school. peer attitude makes the biggest difference in actual educational achievement. lower class children did not seem attain success when grouped together, but did significantly better when placed in a school with predominantly middle class children. the M/C children did not seem to have any adverse effects until the school became more than 1/3 L/C. this was the basis for bussing.
.......

how is that plagerizing?

 

[Unkotare]

The word is 'Plagiarizing.'

 

[IanC]

IanC failed to tell you that he is plagiarizing from The Coleman Report, 1966. Yeah, 1966. The sod is lazy. He must be half white. Oh, he does not give you the background of Coleman, either. Ask him.

Here is a much better report to consider. You Win Some, You Lose Some: Explaining the Pattern of Success and Failure in the Second Reconstruction | Jennifer L. Hochschild

I skimmed your link. it follows the usual operating procedure. first acknowledge that significant strides have been made to help blacks then point out that blacks are still suffering massive gaps in social traits. the authors leave it to the audience to infer that racism is to blame because there is no other reason left, right? 'power with' and 'power over' gobbledegook.

resources have been made available to blacks. some blacks made use of them and became successful, other blacks did not. I believe intelligence is the key, just as it is the key in whites.

 

[IanC]

The word is 'Plagiarizing.'

thanks yuo spelling police. hahahahaha

 

[IanC]

The Nation's Top 10 Black-Owned Companies

The latest U.S. Census report on black-owned businesses shows a growth rate three times the national average. The 10 black-owned companies listed here are excellent models for those who aspire to economic independence.

low IQ's eh,now master this mister genius

blacks have low rates of business startup and high rates of business bankcruptcy.

actually, business is one area where race can shine. why dont blacks use all these underemployed blacks who would be 'special' if only they had a chance? asians are famous (or notorious) for running family businesses. who is stopping blacks from doing the same thing?

 

[Noomi]

Matthew thinks that blacks have done nothing, and that every good thing invented was invented by white people.

Matthew needs to give up his air conditioning, his mobile phone, his clothes dryer, he needs to stop using elevators and fountain pens, he cannot use a guitar and he should throw out his wife's ironing board, he shouldn't post his mail in a mail box, he cannot eat peanut butter, he can't use a lawn mower, a mop, or a lawn sprinkler, or a typewriter, and he is not able to listen to Jazz, rock and roll, or Blues music.

Why?

Because these things were all invented by blacks.

Suck shit, Matthew.

Inventions Created By Black People

 

[IanC]

I think that web site does a disservice to black inventors. blacks have indeed produced many patents but mostly in the realm of incremental improvements not original idea. when it is shown, time after time after time, that the claims are highly exaggerated it only lessens the actual accomplishments.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Plagiarizing includes not putting material in quotation marks when you lift it and or not giving a full citation to find the actual documentation. And 1966? Anything more current?

........
speaking of middle class lifestyles, the Coleman Report studied schools for disparate funding, buildings, teachers and students. it found that funding, buildings, classroom size and teachers were all less important than the quality of the students attending the school. peer attitude makes the biggest difference in actual educational achievement. lower class children did not seem attain success when grouped together, but did significantly better when placed in a school with predominantly middle class children. the M/C children did not seem to have any adverse effects until the school became more than 1/3 L/C. this was the basis for bussing.
.......

how is that plagerizing?