Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide...

[Missourian]

Since when did taxation become about fairness?

Seems to me you're reframing "when you spread the wealth around...."

You're making the argument.

The argument that is isn't fair to small online retailers because the big online retailers can absorb the costs of accounting...

I am expanding that exact same argument, but contrasting it against the comparison of the small online business versus the small brick and mortar business.

I'm comparing apples to apples, you're not....Pricing isn't the only reason people choose to shop online or at a brick-and-mortar store...I have recent first-hand experience.

I had to replace the foot controller for the trolling motor on my boat...The retailer for that item is in Minneapolis, 2 1/2 hours away....However I was going into town the next day and compared the time and effort it would've taken to go to the store and pick it up + sales tax, versus the shipping charge that was clearly more than what I'd have paid in tax...Having the item shipped made more sense to me, as I would have had to drive 20 miles out of my way to pick it up in person, even though I could've saved a few bucks.

The question is, is you had to pay shipping AND sales tax, would it been worth your while?

Or, let's take it one step further.

Hypothetically, let's reverse the advantage...let's imagine that at the brick and mortar store you didn't have to pay sales tax.

Would it then have been worthwhile?

 

[eflatminor]

If people were obeying the law, no one would be complaining about this change...because they would be paying the same sales tax for online purchases already.

Obviously they are not...hence their outrage.

You completely dodged the question, which I assume means you now agree that online retailers have no advantage with regard to state taxes. Okay, baby steps.

Now, if we have a problem with people paying their taxes, why in heaven's name should be force that burden upon retailers? Isn't that the job of the tax collection agencies? What next, shall we force the guy that owns the land where a flea market takes place to collect the sales tax from the individual sales that take place on a Saturday morning?

Looking at the bigger picture, why in the heck would you want the government to collect yet MORE money from the people? Not enough government spending going on these days?

Of course there is an advantage.

At the brick and mortar store the sales tax must be paid.

Not true. If the brick & mortar retailer mails the product out of state, no sales tax is collected. It must be paid by the buyer.

At the online retailer, the tax can be, and almost universally is, avoided.

Not true. If the online retailer mails the product in state, they must collect sales tax. If they mail it out of state, no sales tax is collected and it must be paid by the buyer, just like with brick & mortar establishments.

So I ask again, where is the advantage?

 

[Oddball]

You're making the argument.

The argument that is isn't fair to small online retailers because the big online retailers can absorb the costs of accounting...

I am expanding that exact same argument, but contrasting it against the comparison of the small online business versus the small brick and mortar business.

I'm comparing apples to apples, you're not....Pricing isn't the only reason people choose to shop online or at a brick-and-mortar store...I have recent first-hand experience.

I had to replace the foot controller for the trolling motor on my boat...The retailer for that item is in Minneapolis, 2 1/2 hours away....However I was going into town the next day and compared the time and effort it would've taken to go to the store and pick it up + sales tax, versus the shipping charge that was clearly more than what I'd have paid in tax...Having the item shipped made more sense to me, as I would have had to drive 20 miles out of my way to pick it up in person, even though I could've saved a few bucks.

The question is, is you had to pay shipping AND sales tax, would it been worth your while?

Or, let's take it one step further.

Hypothetically, let's reverse the advantage...let's imagine that at the brick and mortar store you didn't have to pay sales tax.

Would it then have been worthwhile?

Happens every time I delay my clothing purchases until I go to Minneapolis or Duluth.

It's axiomatic: You tax something, you get less of it...This hurts the small retailer, whether online or brick-and-mortar, more so than the large.

 

[theHawk]

Screwed by the phony Conservatives and Socialists/Progressives again.


Small companies who want to sell their products online are in real trouble. Some Republican governors, eager to enrich their thinning state coffers, are endorsing a tax that would be imposed on products sold online.According to the National Conference of State Legislatures Strapped, states could reap as much as $23 billion in new annual revenue.

Bigger chains are happy with the move. Scott Mason, a vice president at Lowe's Cos, who noted that Lowe’s has a 5 percent to 10 percent price disadvantage compared with online rivals, exclaimed, "Having one of the most recognized and widely popular Republican leaders take this position gives other politicians comfort that the online sales tax is fair and helps state budgets in crisis.”

Until recently, consumers could purchase items online without paying sales tax, a strategy that enabled consumers to shop at local stores but then order the same products online so they could avoid the sales tax. In order to level the playing field, there has been a push to tax the online purchases so local business owners could compete.

The giant Amazon.com, which initially viewed with disfavor the idea of a sales tax, has decided that they now like the idea. Why? Because Amazon plans to offer same-day delivery, which will mean it needs more local warehouses, and it will then get hit by state taxes anyway.

Small online competitors are upset. Steve DelBianco, executive director of NetChoice, a trade group representing eBay, Overstock.com and others, said, "Besides the Republican support, this position change is being driven by the millions of dollars being spent by the big-box retailers—and now Amazon—to push the sales tax through Congress."

States that already have an online sales tax are Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York, Texas and Washington. Other state that are planning to join them are California (Sept. 2012), Indiana (Jan. 2014), Nevada (Jan. 2014), New Jersey (July 2013), South Carolina (Jan. 2016),Tennessee (Jan 2014) and Virginia (Sept 2013)...

Read More:
Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but being a conservative doesn't mean "oppose all taxes no matter what". We believe in a small government, which would still require some taxation to fund the most basic needs of society - national defense, department of justice, ect. It does not include the need to tax and spend money for welfare, wealth "redistribution", enititlements or other pork projects.


It will be interesting to see how they plan on enforcing it. Will the tax be based on where the buyer is or where the store location is, or where the server is?

 

[DontBeStupid]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but being a conservative doesn't mean "oppose all taxes no matter what".

Let me say it before Pauli gets up from his nap.

You sir, are a Marxist Communist.

 

[signelect]

It is just another effort for politicians to get more money to spend so they don't have to live within a budget. Don't spend more than you have and the problem goes away.

 

[Care4all]

So many things being said are just False.

I have an online Store, and I have to follow the State rules of Maine and TAX anyone buying from my shop that lives in Maine. So, I DO COMPETE on a level playing field with the small local shops, many of whom also have their own online business as well.

So, NO ONE gets away with not "paying" taxes in my example above.

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

This is CLEARLY A PUSH FROM BIG BUSINESS to put the small businesses OUT OF BUSINESS....mom and pops wasn't enough for them, they now have to get the mom and pops online too....

If there is a big business that operates in your State but not in any other states, then with their online business, such as LLBean here in Maine, sales tax is charged for those in Maine, but all other states are not their problem to handle, and SHOULD NOT BE....SINCE they do not operate in those States with a brick and mortar business or warehouse....

Why should I be forced to collect sales taxes from my customers for the State of California? I don't live there? I don't operate there? I am not a California citizen....what right does THAT State have to tell me to have to collect their sales tax for them when I don't even operate or have even a big toe, in their State?

 

[Oddball]

So many things beings said are just False.

I have an online Store, and I have to follow the State rules of Maine and TAX anyone buying from my shop that lives in Maine. So, I DO COMPETE on a level playing field with the small local shops, many of whom also have their own online business as well.

So, NO ONE gets away with not "paying" taxes in my example above.

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

This is CLEARLY A PUSH FROM BIG BUSINESS to put the small businesses OUT OF BUSINESS....mom and pops wasn't enough for them, they now have to get the mom and pops online too....

If there is a big business that operates in your State but not in any other states, then with their online business, such as LLBean here in Maine, sales tax is charged for those in Maine, but all other states are not their problem to handle, and SHOULD NOT BE....SINCE they do not operate in those States with a brick and mortar business or warehouse....

Why should I be forced to collect sales taxes from my customers for the State of California? I don't live there? I don't operate there? I am not a California citizen....what right does THAT State have to tell me to have to collect their sales tax for them when I don't even operate or have even a big toe, in their State?

Golly, you sound like one o' them thar "libertarian" guys we been hearing so much about lately.

 

[eflatminor]

So many things beings said are just False.

I have an online Store, and I have to follow the State rules of Maine and TAX anyone buying from my shop that lives in Maine. So, I DO COMPETE on a level playing field with the small local shops, many of whom also have their own online business as well.

So, NO ONE gets away with not "paying" taxes in my example above.

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

This is CLEARLY A PUSH FROM BIG BUSINESS to put the small businesses OUT OF BUSINESS....mom and pops wasn't enough for them, they now have to get the mom and pops online too....

If there is a big business that operates in your State but not in any other states, then with their online business, such as LLBean here in Maine, sales tax is charged for those in Maine, but all other states are not their problem to handle, and SHOULD NOT BE....SINCE they do not operate in those States with a brick and mortar business or warehouse....

Why should I be forced to collect sales taxes from my customers for the State of California? I don't live there? I don't operate there? I am not a California citizen....what right does THAT State have to tell me to have to collect their sales tax for them when I don't even operate or have even a big toe, in their State?

Thank you!

 

[Missourian]

You completely dodged the question, which I assume means you now agree that online retailers have no advantage with regard to state taxes. Okay, baby steps.

Now, if we have a problem with people paying their taxes, why in heaven's name should be force that burden upon retailers? Isn't that the job of the tax collection agencies? What next, shall we force the guy that owns the land where a flea market takes place to collect the sales tax from the individual sales that take place on a Saturday morning?

Looking at the bigger picture, why in the heck would you want the government to collect yet MORE money from the people? Not enough government spending going on these days?

Of course there is an advantage.

At the brick and mortar store the sales tax must be paid.

Not true. If the brick & mortar retailer mails the product out of state, no sales tax is collected. It must be paid by the buyer.

At the online retailer, the tax can be, and almost universally is, avoided.

Not true. If the online retailer mails the product in state, they must collect sales tax. If they mail it out of state, no sales tax is collected and it must be paid by the buyer, just like with brick & mortar establishments.

So I ask again, where is the advantage?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

If you, and I mean you personally, could save money and avoid paying sales tax would you?

That is a rhetorical question, we know the answer is yes.

So the online retailer has an advantage over the brick and mortar business.

Now, you say, "oh, but, if you order from an online store in your own state, that business must charge you state sales tax."

Then I ask, "If you are ordering online, and two online stores have the same item at the same price with the same shipping cost and time, but one will charge you tax because you are in the same state, and the other one will not...which one has the advantage for you business ?"

And then you either tell the truth or lie.

 

[eflatminor]

Of course there is an advantage.

At the brick and mortar store the sales tax must be paid.

Not true. If the brick & mortar retailer mails the product out of state, no sales tax is collected. It must be paid by the buyer.

At the online retailer, the tax can be, and almost universally is, avoided.

Not true. If the online retailer mails the product in state, they must collect sales tax. If they mail it out of state, no sales tax is collected and it must be paid by the buyer, just like with brick & mortar establishments.

So I ask again, where is the advantage?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Funny, I was going to ask you the same question...

If you, and I mean you personally, could save money and avoid paying sales tax would you?

That is a rhetorical question, we know the answer is yes.

Incorrect again. I pay my taxes, all of them, including any sales tax. If you are in violation of the law, that's your problem, not mine. Of course, avoiding paying taxes LEGALLY is a different cup of tea. And yes, my accountants look to keep my tax liability as low as the law allows. Next.

So the online retailer has an advantage over the brick and mortar business

An online retailer "may" very well have an advantage with regard to their distribution channel. It depends on the product or service being sold. However, as I've stated with specificity, there is NO advantage with regard to the collection of taxes.

Then I ask, "If you are ordering online, and two online stores have the same item at the same price with the same shipping cost and time, but one will charge you tax because you are in the same state, and the other one will not...which one has the advantage for you business ?"

As the CEO of two corporations, I have a fiduciary duty to pay all applicable taxes. Therefore, in your bullshit example, it would make zero difference which retailer got the sale for my business. Either way, the taxes will be paid. Again, if you're avoiding taxes, that's your problem and one you probably should not be talking about in an online forum. Good luck with that.

 

[Care4all]

Of course there is an advantage.

At the brick and mortar store the sales tax must be paid.

Not true. If the brick & mortar retailer mails the product out of state, no sales tax is collected. It must be paid by the buyer.

At the online retailer, the tax can be, and almost universally is, avoided.

Not true. If the online retailer mails the product in state, they must collect sales tax. If they mail it out of state, no sales tax is collected and it must be paid by the buyer, just like with brick & mortar establishments.

So I ask again, where is the advantage?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

If you, and I mean you personally, could save money and avoid paying sales tax would you?

That is a rhetorical question, we know the answer is yes.

So the online retailer has an advantage over the brick and mortar business.

Now, you say, "oh, but, if you order from an online store in your own state, that business must charge you state sales tax."

Then I ask, "If you are ordering online, and two online stores have the same item at the same price with the same shipping cost and time, but one will charge you tax because you are in the same state, and the other one will not...which one has the advantage for you business ?"

And then you either tell the truth or lie.

Let's say I am on vacation visiting Florida, and I go shopping and buy a widget or two. If the store ships goods, I tell them at the register that I am from out of State and I would like my 2 widgets shipped to my home in Maine....The cashier then enters in a tax exempt key, my purchases are not charged Florida State Sales tax, and I am responsible for claiming this purchase and paying sales tax on the item when doing my State Income tax return.

Sooooo, THE SAME PROCEDURE APPLIES, when purchasing in a brick and mortar store Missourian....the EXACT SAME procedure and tax requirements. Any citizen operating a store within one State, is ONLY responsible for collecting sales taxes on items that stay within the State or are from Florida Citizens....if the purchaser is from another State and has the items at the time of purchased shipped to their State, then the cashier, under Law, is not required to collect the sales taxes on that item from that person's state, nor for the State they operate in, when different.

So you are misinformed on this imho....

 

[eflatminor]

So you are misinformed on this imho....

Indeed he/she is. Highly so.

 

[Truthmatters]

they think a country can run without taxes.

what dupes

 

[eflatminor]

they think a country can run without taxes.

what dupes

Yes, because without this online sales tax requirement, we would have no tax revenue.

The force is not so strong in this one...

 

[Missourian]

Not true. If the brick & mortar retailer mails the product out of state, no sales tax is collected. It must be paid by the buyer.

Not true. If the online retailer mails the product in state, they must collect sales tax. If they mail it out of state, no sales tax is collected and it must be paid by the buyer, just like with brick & mortar establishments.

So I ask again, where is the advantage?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

If you, and I mean you personally, could save money and avoid paying sales tax would you?

That is a rhetorical question, we know the answer is yes.

So the online retailer has an advantage over the brick and mortar business.

Now, you say, "oh, but, if you order from an online store in your own state, that business must charge you state sales tax."

Then I ask, "If you are ordering online, and two online stores have the same item at the same price with the same shipping cost and time, but one will charge you tax because you are in the same state, and the other one will not...which one has the advantage for you business ?"

And then you either tell the truth or lie.

Let's say I am on vacation visiting Florida, and I go shopping and buy a widget or two. If the store ships goods, I tell them at the register that I am from out of State and I would like my 2 widgets shipped to my home in Maine....The cashier then enters in a tax exempt key, my purchases are not charged florida State Sales tax, and I am responsible for claiming this purchase and paying sales tax on the item when doing my State Income tax return.

Sooooo, THE SAME PROCEDURE APPLIES, when purchasing in a brick and mortar store Missourian....the EXACT SAME procedure and tax requirements. Any citizen operating a store within one State, is ONLY responsible for collecting sales taxes on items that stay within the State or are from Florida Citizens....if the purchaser is from another State and has the items at the time of purchased shipped to their State, then the cashier, under Law, is not required to collect the sales taxes on that item from that person's state, nor for the Sate they operate in, when different.

So you are misinformed on this imho....

Ok, Care...you are a very honest debater, so if there is no advantage, let's turn the law around.


Online and brick and mortar business must collect state tax on ONLY out of state transaction.

Any in state transactions are up to the purchaser to report to the state department of revenue...(and therefore state sale tax can be easily avoided) whether the purchase is made online or at a brick and mortar store.

Now the lion's share of the brick and mortar businesses become for all intents and purposes, tax free....while conversely, the majority of online sales are more highly taxed.

Would that make it easier, or more difficult for an online business?

Even though the law appears evenly applied, would it not give an advantage to the brick and mortar store?

(Although I addressed this to Care, it is open to anyone for comment)

 

[Care4all]

A country can't run without taxes TM, this I agree with you on....it's only common sense.

but what this law is asking, is for me, operating a business from my home, here in Maine...to actually take my time, which is very consumed in getting the business up and running, to take my time scheduled for my business and use it to set up and maintain collecting sales taxes for another State, of which I am not even a citizen of, nor receive any of their State benefits....THEY should be responsible for collecting their OWN citizen's sales taxes....because I can NOT afford to do it for them, so that they can reap the benefits of more tax monies within their State, a State I may never step in to.....

These States need to find a more updated way to collect these taxes they are missing from their citizens...they have NO RIGHT to come to me and make me, a citizen of Maine, to do it for them.

On the other hand, my State of Maine has the right to make me collect sales taxes for them, because I am a citizen of this State and do benefit from the perks within this State such as roads, and hospitals and other things....

 

[eflatminor]

Online and brick and mortar business must collect state tax on ONLY out of state transaction.

Any in state transactions are up to the purchaser to report to the state department of revenue...

You got that exactly backwards.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Screwed by the phony Conservatives and Socialists/Progressives again.


Small companies who want to sell their products online are in real trouble. Some Republican governors, eager to enrich their thinning state coffers, are endorsing a tax that would be imposed on products sold online.According to the National Conference of State Legislatures Strapped, states could reap as much as $23 billion in new annual revenue.

Bigger chains are happy with the move. Scott Mason, a vice president at Lowe's Cos, who noted that Lowe’s has a 5 percent to 10 percent price disadvantage compared with online rivals, exclaimed, "Having one of the most recognized and widely popular Republican leaders take this position gives other politicians comfort that the online sales tax is fair and helps state budgets in crisis.”

Until recently, consumers could purchase items online without paying sales tax, a strategy that enabled consumers to shop at local stores but then order the same products online so they could avoid the sales tax. In order to level the playing field, there has been a push to tax the online purchases so local business owners could compete.

The giant Amazon.com, which initially viewed with disfavor the idea of a sales tax, has decided that they now like the idea. Why? Because Amazon plans to offer same-day delivery, which will mean it needs more local warehouses, and it will then get hit by state taxes anyway.

Small online competitors are upset. Steve DelBianco, executive director of NetChoice, a trade group representing eBay, Overstock.com and others, said, "Besides the Republican support, this position change is being driven by the millions of dollars being spent by the big-box retailers—and now Amazon—to push the sales tax through Congress."

States that already have an online sales tax are Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York, Texas and Washington. Other state that are planning to join them are California (Sept. 2012), Indiana (Jan. 2014), Nevada (Jan. 2014), New Jersey (July 2013), South Carolina (Jan. 2016),Tennessee (Jan 2014) and Virginia (Sept 2013)...

Read More:
Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide

Congress should pass a law requiring all sales to be taxed at the point of origin, not point of delivery.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why should small brick and mortar stores suffer because people can screw the government out of tax revenue they are entitled to?

Why should I care about a small brick and mortar store if the state it is in wants to tax it out of existence?