Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide...

[eflatminor]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Funny, I was going to ask you the same question...



Incorrect again. I pay my taxes, all of them, including any sales tax. If you are in violation of the law, that's your problem, not mine. Of course, avoiding paying taxes LEGALLY is a different cup of tea. And yes, my accountants look to keep my tax liability as low as the law allows. Next.

An online retailer "may" very well have an advantage with regard to their distribution channel. It depends on the product or service being sold. However, as I've stated with specificity, there is NO advantage with regard to the collection of taxes.

As the CEO of two corporations, I have a fiduciary duty to pay all applicable taxes. Therefore, in your bullshit example, it would make zero difference which retailer got the sale for my business. Either way, the taxes will be paid. Again, if you're avoiding taxes, that's your problem and one you probably should not be talking about in an online forum. Good luck with that.

I knew you would lie.

Your argument in this post http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...oon-to-be-taxed-nationwide-4.html#post5635509...

"Looking at the bigger picture, why in the heck would you want the government to collect yet MORE money from the people? Not enough government spending going on these days?"

...reveals truth behind your position.

Bullshit. You lie. You asked about "my business", which always pays the taxes required by law. The earlier post was in response to your assertion that more revenue would be realized, which, while I doubt would be true, I rightly questioned. Disingenuous bullshit liar...too bad for a guy smart enough to quote Milton. You should be smarter than this.

 

[Care4all]

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

So, of the 620,000 residents of Vermont how many do you think write their out of state purchases on their taxes and pay the tax?

Hint: 1, the person running for Governor.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

No, the business that doesn't have to collect the tax is clearly being favored.

As I stated before, the brick and mortar business, does NOT have to collect sales taxes from any customer from another State that has his merchandise shipped at the time of purchase to another State...THAT'S THE LAW. The online businesses shipping directly to another State, are not required to collect the OTHER States' taxes....SAME, EXACT SAME as the brick and motar store shipping a purchase to a customer's home out of State.

so, you too are misinformed.

If I sell anything to anyone in the State of Maine, I am required as a citizen of the State of Maine, or the business operator in the State of Maine, to collect Maine State taxes, just as the brick and mortar store....and if someone from out of state, stumbles upon me and my home shop, and buys locally, I am required to collect the sales taxes for Maine at the time of purchase, UNLESS they are having the stuff at the time of purchase, shipped to their home State.

So you are misinformed....it IS ALREADY the same.

And other states have no right to make me, a citizen of another State, who never would take a step in their State, collect THEIR sales taxes for them.

they need to figure out another way to get more money from their citizens...and leave moi, a citizen from another State, out of it.

 

[8537]

Why should a brick and mortar store get extra help from the government because it pays less taxes than a brick and mortar store in California?

What in the world does this mean?

It means that lots and lots of people near state borders which have differing tax policies (i.e Minnesota/Wisconsin and Washington/Idaho/Oregon) physically cross the state borders to avoid taxes every day of the week....The concept for online purchasing is the same.

Well, we do that here as well! But like a good tax paying citizen, I'm supposed to log all of my out of state sales and pay that tax.

You might see a certain compliance problem here, no?

Why are you pimping for huge outfits like Amazon and against the small online retailer?

Offering non-preferential tax treatment is not pimping. Requiring the government to use tax policy to pick winners and losers is pimping.

 

[8537]

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

So, of the 620,000 residents of Vermont how many do you think write their out of state purchases on their taxes and pay the tax?

Hint: 1, the person running for Governor.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

No, the business that doesn't have to collect the tax is clearly being favored.

As I stated before, the brick and mortar business, does NOT have to collect sales taxes from any customer from another State that has his merchandise shipped at the time of purchase to another State...THAT'S THE LAW.

I heard you the first time.

The online businesses shipping directly to another State, are not required to collect the OTHER States' taxes....SAME, EXACT SAME as the brick and motar store shipping a purchase to a customer's home out of State.

An impartial taxation system would require tax on that AND on internet sales. Certainly you agree, no?

 

[eflatminor]

(1) I don't own a retail establishment

(2) So, in response to internet sales not being taxed, business owners could compete by not doing sales in store but, instead, shipping the sale to an out-of-state address that is not part of the unified sales tax compact? And this, in your mind, is equal treatment?

OK Then.

Not a deep thinker are you?

Oh, you really got me there smart guy! I bet your ex-wife is proud.

First, internet sales are taxed in the state in which the online business is domiciled. Same for brick&mortar. So please stop lying. Second, brick&mortar operations are free to ship their products out of state and avoid collecting sales tax, just like internet businesses.

So, your answer to preferential treatment of items shipped out of state is to...

Continue to provide preferential treatment for items shipped out of state, primarily favoring businesses that do online sales instead of in-store sales?

OK then.

Items shipped out of state do not necessarily receive preferential treatment. It first requires a buyer willing to violate tax laws and then requires shipping costs to be lower than the sales tax they'd pay in state, which is not always the case. There is no preferential treatment with regard to taxes. Sorry, but it's true.

 

[Missourian]

Online and brick and mortar business must collect state tax on ONLY out of state transaction.

If that were to be the case, it would cause serious financial harm to smaller businesses. Imagine having to deal with 50 different state tax laws and thousands of different local sales tax laws, sort them ALL out at the point of sale, collect the appropriate tax and distribute it to the appropriate taxing authority. That would END smaller operations ensuring only the largest corporations could comply. An America with nothing but WalMart-like operations, wonderful.

By the same measure, requiring online retailers to collect taxes in this manner is ridiculous and will end small online business. An America with nothing but Amazon-sized operations, wonderful.

Changes will need to be made, but the hyperbole is over the top.

Software will be written, and all the business will need to do is plug in the state and the category of item...problem solved.

We collect plenty of tax revenue. Spending is the problem. Killing businesses in an effort to allow government to spend more is not wise policy, IMO.

I agree, I'm not arguing against that, but according to your argument, this isn't an advantage because this money is being paid...which is laughable.

The argument is, is this an advantage...and the answer is a resounding yes.

Then the question is, should tax policy benefit one entity over another...and the answer is no.

Especially against the interest of the state...it is in the states interest to keep money flowing INTO the state economy, not out of it.

This tax situation incentivizes exporting money out of the local economy.

 

[8537]

Not a deep thinker are you?

Oh, you really got me there smart guy! I bet your ex-wife is proud.

First, internet sales are taxed in the state in which the online business is domiciled. Same for brick&mortar. So please stop lying. Second, brick&mortar operations are free to ship their products out of state and avoid collecting sales tax, just like internet businesses.

So, your answer to preferential treatment of items shipped out of state is to...

Continue to provide preferential treatment for items shipped out of state, primarily favoring businesses that do online sales instead of in-store sales?

OK then.

Items shipped out of state do not necessarily receive preferential treatment. It first requires a buyer willing to violate tax laws and then requires shipping costs to be lower than the sales tax they'd pay in state, which is not always the case. There is no preferential treatment with regard to taxes. Sorry, but it's true.

So, I buy an item and ship it to the other side of my state. I pay shipping costs + taxes.

The guy in the next state buys and item in my state and has it shipped. He pays shipping costs but no taxes.

And this is equal treatment?

 

[eflatminor]

Online and brick and mortar business must collect state tax on ONLY out of state transaction.

If that were to be the case, it would cause serious financial harm to smaller businesses. Imagine having to deal with 50 different state tax laws and thousands of different local sales tax laws, sort them ALL out at the point of sale, collect the appropriate tax and distribute it to the appropriate taxing authority. That would END smaller operations ensuring only the largest corporations could comply. An America with nothing but WalMart-like operations, wonderful.

By the same measure, requiring online retailers to collect taxes in this manner is ridiculous and will end small online business. An America with nothing but Amazon-sized operations, wonderful.

Changes will need to be made, but the hyperbole is over the top.

Software will be written, and all the business will need to do is plug in the state and the category of item...problem solved.

We collect plenty of tax revenue. Spending is the problem. Killing businesses in an effort to allow government to spend more is not wise policy, IMO.

I agree, I'm not arguing against that, but according to your argument, this isn't an advantage because this money is being paid...which is laughable.

The argument is, is this an advantage...and the answer is a resounding yes.

Then the question is, should tax policy benefit one entity over another...and the answer is no.

Especially against the interest of the state...it is in the states interest to keep money flowing INTO the state economy, not out of it.

This tax situation incentivizes exporting money out of the local economy.

I STRONGLY disagree that it should be a retailer's responsibility in one state to collect sales taxes for another. The unintended consequences of such regulation will, as always, help to eliminate small and new competition because only larger corporations will be able to afford to comply with the myriad of ever-changing tax rules at state and local levels. It will further force business out of country, costing US jobs. It's a really, really bad idea.

 

[eflatminor]

Oh, you really got me there smart guy! I bet your ex-wife is proud.



So, your answer to preferential treatment of items shipped out of state is to...

Continue to provide preferential treatment for items shipped out of state, primarily favoring businesses that do online sales instead of in-store sales?

OK then.

Items shipped out of state do not necessarily receive preferential treatment. It first requires a buyer willing to violate tax laws and then requires shipping costs to be lower than the sales tax they'd pay in state, which is not always the case. There is no preferential treatment with regard to taxes. Sorry, but it's true.

So, I buy an item and ship it to the other side of my state. I pay shipping costs + taxes.

The guy in the next state buys and item in my state and has it shipped. He pays shipping costs but no taxes.

And this is equal treatment?

Only if the guy in the next state is willing to violate his state's tax laws. This is NOT the responsibility of the retailer in the other state.

 

[Murf76]

I've read all the arguments and both sides have good points, but I still find myself pondering. Does anybody have a link to any actual proposed legislation?

 

[Missourian]

Let's say I am on vacation visiting Florida, and I go shopping and buy a widget or two. If the store ships goods, I tell them at the register that I am from out of State and I would like my 2 widgets shipped to my home in Maine....The cashier then enters in a tax exempt key, my purchases are not charged florida State Sales tax, and I am responsible for claiming this purchase and paying sales tax on the item when doing my State Income tax return.

Sooooo, THE SAME PROCEDURE APPLIES, when purchasing in a brick and mortar store Missourian....the EXACT SAME procedure and tax requirements. Any citizen operating a store within one State, is ONLY responsible for collecting sales taxes on items that stay within the State or are from Florida Citizens....if the purchaser is from another State and has the items at the time of purchased shipped to their State, then the cashier, under Law, is not required to collect the sales taxes on that item from that person's state, nor for the Sate they operate in, when different.

So you are misinformed on this imho....

Ok, Care...you are a very honest debater, so if there is no advantage, let's turn the law around.


Online and brick and mortar business must collect state tax on ONLY out of state transaction.

Any in state transactions are up to the purchaser to report to the state department of revenue...(and therefore state sale tax can be easily avoided) whether the purchase is made online or at a brick and mortar store.

Now the lion's share of the brick and mortar businesses become for all intents and purposes, tax free....while conversely, the majority of online sales are more highly taxed.

Would that make it easier, or more difficult for an online business?

Even though the law appears evenly applied, would it not give an advantage to the brick and mortar store?

(Although I addressed this to Care, it is open to anyone for comment)

I understand that this gives the opportunity for the individual buying a great deal online to avoid state sales taxes, if there are any in that State....

But why IS THIS MY PROBLEM....?

WHY should I have to take time away from my business, which there is not enough time already to accomplish all that needs to be done, to collect ANOTHER 49 STATE'S SALES TAX FOR THEM, if I don't operate in that State? I have absolutely no stake in that State or what the heck these taxes are spent on in that State or any of that........? We are not talking about me being required to collect some sort of FEDERAL Sales tax....that goes in to the kitty for all States...

You are asking me to collect Sales taxes for all other 49 States that I am not even a citizen of, for goodness sakes! This has GOT to be unconstitutional!

Yes, I recognize States have a problem and they need more taxes...well, they need to change with the times WITHIN THEIR OWN JURISDICTION within their own State, and change their own tax codes to collect taxes differently....

And as said, NONE of that should be or is, my problem, as a Maine citizen....only Maine is my problem....you all figure out your own problems without trying to pull little ole me, from another State, in to it!

Care

Because you want to do business with them.

If you don't want the burden, you can choose to only do business within Maine.

 

[Care4all]

So, of the 620,000 residents of Vermont how many do you think write their out of state purchases on their taxes and pay the tax?

Hint: 1, the person running for Governor.

No, the business that doesn't have to collect the tax is clearly being favored.

As I stated before, the brick and mortar business, does NOT have to collect sales taxes from any customer from another State that has his merchandise shipped at the time of purchase to another State...THAT'S THE LAW.

I heard you the first time.

The online businesses shipping directly to another State, are not required to collect the OTHER States' taxes....SAME, EXACT SAME as the brick and motar store shipping a purchase to a customer's home out of State.

An impartial taxation system would require tax on that AND on internet sales. Certainly you agree, no?

If they were NOT making a citizen of another State do their dirty deeds for them....

They have no right to make a citizen of another State, collect their taxes for them, because their own citizens have decided to cheat them and not claim their online purchases. I am NOT their babysitter of tax collection....

And certainly, if these people break the law and don't claim their own purchases, then your State needs to find a way to punish those who don't follow their laws within their State, but for goodness sakes, they have NO RIGHT to come in to my State and force me to do this work for them.

If these new found loopholes by citizens within their State is a problem for them, then they have every right to change their own tax collection systems within their own State, to remedy their problems....I should NOT be a part of their remedy.

New Hampshire has no sales tax....nor any State liquor taxes, nor State cigarette taxes...sounthern Mainers cross the state line daily to make purchases in New Hampshire...surrounding States have had to change their own laws to combat that....

It happens in person as well as online, so maybe in these times, States need to rethink their tax structures....raise their income taxes or property taxes or liquor taxes or cigarette taxes or something.... it ain't my problem coming from another state... nor should it be.

 

[8537]

Items shipped out of state do not necessarily receive preferential treatment. It first requires a buyer willing to violate tax laws and then requires shipping costs to be lower than the sales tax they'd pay in state, which is not always the case. There is no preferential treatment with regard to taxes. Sorry, but it's true.

So, I buy an item and ship it to the other side of my state. I pay shipping costs + taxes.

The guy in the next state buys and item in my state and has it shipped. He pays shipping costs but no taxes.

And this is equal treatment?

Only if the guy in the next state is willing to violate his state's tax laws. This is NOT the responsibility of the retailer in the other state.

Here, let me give you the list of people who actually pay taxes on out-of-state purchases:









OK, I'm done.

Now why shouldn't online retail sales face this hurdle?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Screwed by the phony Conservatives and Socialists/Progressives again.


Small companies who want to sell their products online are in real trouble. Some Republican governors, eager to enrich their thinning state coffers, are endorsing a tax that would be imposed on products sold online.According to the National Conference of State Legislatures Strapped, states could reap as much as $23 billion in new annual revenue.

Bigger chains are happy with the move. Scott Mason, a vice president at Lowe's Cos, who noted that Lowe’s has a 5 percent to 10 percent price disadvantage compared with online rivals, exclaimed, "Having one of the most recognized and widely popular Republican leaders take this position gives other politicians comfort that the online sales tax is fair and helps state budgets in crisis.”

Until recently, consumers could purchase items online without paying sales tax, a strategy that enabled consumers to shop at local stores but then order the same products online so they could avoid the sales tax. In order to level the playing field, there has been a push to tax the online purchases so local business owners could compete.

The giant Amazon.com, which initially viewed with disfavor the idea of a sales tax, has decided that they now like the idea. Why? Because Amazon plans to offer same-day delivery, which will mean it needs more local warehouses, and it will then get hit by state taxes anyway.

Small online competitors are upset. Steve DelBianco, executive director of NetChoice, a trade group representing eBay, Overstock.com and others, said, "Besides the Republican support, this position change is being driven by the millions of dollars being spent by the big-box retailers—and now Amazon—to push the sales tax through Congress."

States that already have an online sales tax are Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York, Texas and Washington. Other state that are planning to join them are California (Sept. 2012), Indiana (Jan. 2014), Nevada (Jan. 2014), New Jersey (July 2013), South Carolina (Jan. 2016),Tennessee (Jan 2014) and Virginia (Sept 2013)...

Read More:
Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide

Actually, 22 states already have "consumer use taxes" which require residents to report the amount of their out of state purchases for use in the state on their taxes. In Louisiana these purchases are subject to an 8% tax rate, half of which goes to the state and the other half of which goes to the taxpayer's local government. Having a nationwide tax in place of these use taxes would result in less tax cheating in these states.


I think that it was good for online businesses to enjoy the tax benefits of being online for as long as they did, because it helped the industry to come into being. Now its time they start paying the same taxes as brick and mortar companies do.

 

[Murf76]

As I stated before, the brick and mortar business, does NOT have to collect sales taxes from any customer from another State that has his merchandise shipped at the time of purchase to another State...THAT'S THE LAW.

I heard you the first time.

The online businesses shipping directly to another State, are not required to collect the OTHER States' taxes....SAME, EXACT SAME as the brick and motar store shipping a purchase to a customer's home out of State.

An impartial taxation system would require tax on that AND on internet sales. Certainly you agree, no?

If they were NOT making a citizen of another State do their dirty deeds for them....

They have no right to make a citizen of another State, collect their taxes for them, because their own citizens have decided to cheat them and not claim their online purchases. I am NOT their babysitter of tax collection....

And certainly, if these people break the law and don't claim their own purchases, then your State needs to find a way to punish those who don't follow their laws within their State, but for goodness sakes, they have NO RIGHT to come in to my State and force me to do this work for them.

If these new found loopholes by citizens within their State is a problem for them, then they have every right to change their own tax collection systems within their own State, to remedy their problems....I should NOT be a part of their remedy.

New Hampshire has no sales tax....nor any State liquor taxes, nor State cigarette taxes...sounthern Mainers cross the state line daily to make purchases in New Hampshire...surrounding States have had to change their own laws to combat that....

It happens in person as well as online, so maybe in these times, States need to rethink their tax structures....raise their income taxes or property taxes or liquor taxes or cigarette taxes or something.... it ain't my problem coming from another state... nor should it be.

Is that what's being proposed though? I still haven't seen any actual proposed legislation.

Found this though...

Because of a 1992 Supreme Court decision, states cannot require companies that don’t have a physical location within their borders to collect sales tax revenue.

GOP governors bolster online sales tax push - The Hill's On The Money

So, it doesn't stand to reason that what's being proposed is to make online retailers collect sales taxes for all 50 states. That would appear to have been shot down already.
If what they've got in mind is that all customers should pay sales tax at the point of service, that seems reasonable to me.

 

[Moonglow]

Maybe your brand of conseravtism is out of date.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So the government should be using the tax code to incentivize online sales?

OK then tv. You keep preaching free markets and supporting government efforts to make them less balanced. Nice effort.

Not at all, I think Government should stay the hell out of the way, and let businesses succeed, or fail... Whichever the market dictates.

Yet here you are, arguing that the government should hand out preferential treatment to one type of business over another using the tax code.

No, you are.

 

[Care4all]

Screwed by the phony Conservatives and Socialists/Progressives again.


Small companies who want to sell their products online are in real trouble. Some Republican governors, eager to enrich their thinning state coffers, are endorsing a tax that would be imposed on products sold online.According to the National Conference of State Legislatures Strapped, states could reap as much as $23 billion in new annual revenue.

Bigger chains are happy with the move. Scott Mason, a vice president at Lowe's Cos, who noted that Lowe’s has a 5 percent to 10 percent price disadvantage compared with online rivals, exclaimed, "Having one of the most recognized and widely popular Republican leaders take this position gives other politicians comfort that the online sales tax is fair and helps state budgets in crisis.”

Until recently, consumers could purchase items online without paying sales tax, a strategy that enabled consumers to shop at local stores but then order the same products online so they could avoid the sales tax. In order to level the playing field, there has been a push to tax the online purchases so local business owners could compete.

The giant Amazon.com, which initially viewed with disfavor the idea of a sales tax, has decided that they now like the idea. Why? Because Amazon plans to offer same-day delivery, which will mean it needs more local warehouses, and it will then get hit by state taxes anyway.

Small online competitors are upset. Steve DelBianco, executive director of NetChoice, a trade group representing eBay, Overstock.com and others, said, "Besides the Republican support, this position change is being driven by the millions of dollars being spent by the big-box retailers—and now Amazon—to push the sales tax through Congress."

States that already have an online sales tax are Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York, Texas and Washington. Other state that are planning to join them are California (Sept. 2012), Indiana (Jan. 2014), Nevada (Jan. 2014), New Jersey (July 2013), South Carolina (Jan. 2016),Tennessee (Jan 2014) and Virginia (Sept 2013)...

Read More:
Online Purchases Soon To Be Taxed Nationwide

Actually, 22 states already have "consumer use taxes" which require residents to report the amount of their out of state purchases for use in the state on their taxes. In Louisiana these purchases are subject to an 8% tax rate, half of which goes to the state and the other half of which goes to the taxpayer's local government. Having a nationwide tax in place of these use taxes would result in less tax cheating in these states.


I think that it was good for online businesses to enjoy the tax benefits of being online for as long as they did, because it helped the industry to come into being. Now its time they start paying the same taxes as brick and mortar companies do.

As Stated, the brick and motar store already has the same tax structure as the on line stores...they collect taxes for the State they operate in...they do NOT collect taxes from customers living and purchasing from them, in another State, if the item bought from them, at the time of purchased is shipped to the other State.

Same with online businesses, they collect the State taxes on any items that Stay or shipped within their own State. They do not have to spend their time collecting taxes from a person that purchases items that are shipped upon the time of purchase, to another State.

IT IS THE SAME.

If the law changes to what these law makers want...then YOU WILL BE PUTTING A BURDEN on Online businesses to collect ANOTHER STATE'S taxes for this OTHER STATE and sending it to them ,

WHEN BRICK AND MORTAR STORES would NOT have to do this....would NEVER EVER have to collect another State's taxes and send it to them....they don't do it now and they won't have to do it after the new proposed law passes.

ONLY the small online business would have to do it!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, know what you are doing here!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then, for out of State purchases, I am not required to charge them sales tax, HOWEVER if their State tax code is written as Maine's, if I buy something from another State and did not pay taxes required from that State or taxes required from My State Sales tax, then when I filed my State Income taxes for Maine, there was a slot for me to write in all of my out of State purchases that I needed to pay sales taxes on....and they collect it in that manner.

So, of the 620,000 residents of Vermont how many do you think write their out of state purchases on their taxes and pay the tax?

Hint: 1, the person running for Governor.

SO NO ONE is being "favored" under the law....as far as businesses on line vs small businesses in town.

No, the business that doesn't have to collect the tax is clearly being favored.

If we were actually to apply your logic then California should be able to collect sales taxes on any business in Texas because by not doing so the are favoring the Texas company over the California one.

While they are doing that they should also collect income taxes from Texas residents because they are favoring them over California residents by not doing so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So, of the 620,000 residents of Vermont how many do you think write their out of state purchases on their taxes and pay the tax?

Hint: 1, the person running for Governor.

No, the business that doesn't have to collect the tax is clearly being favored.

As I stated before, the brick and mortar business, does NOT have to collect sales taxes from any customer from another State that has his merchandise shipped at the time of purchase to another State...THAT'S THE LAW.

I heard you the first time.

The online businesses shipping directly to another State, are not required to collect the OTHER States' taxes....SAME, EXACT SAME as the brick and motar store shipping a purchase to a customer's home out of State.

An impartial taxation system would require tax on that AND on internet sales. Certainly you agree, no?

It already does, unless the person making the purchase refuses to obey state law. Want to try again?