On the topic of ethics: Gay television

[Hobbit]

You can't cut taxes, you can freeze them, and bring them down, but outright cutting them dosen't work. Things the gov't need to spend money, dosen't get any cheaper, why shut off your revenue, whil you only get more expenses?
Improving your individual life yourself is fine, just allow everyone the right to do it aswell. Life is like a game, a race, it's just not a fair race. The problem is you have shoes to race in and some people have bare feet, why not supply some shoes, so the can have a chance at progressing.

Cutting taxes stimulates the economy, and quite well, might I add. Although it will lower tax revenues in the short term, the addition of more taxable income to the economy will result in greater tax revenues given time.

Which tyrannies have used liberalism? Not communism, or even socilasim, but liberalism. All tyrannies is a very broad term. And certain regims can be argued either way. But which tyrannies?

Some of the liberal philosophies do resemble communist propoganda, but I'll not compare liberalism to tyranny.

What is human nature then? Is it primarily for self interest? Are we all just greedy pigs, trying to consume more then the next? Self interest cannot be unlearned, but people have definetly tried. But where does self interest end, and love for your fellow man begin (get it?, fellow man, it's a gay thread, get it?). Individuality very important to everyone. Thats why i would never live in the suburbs.

Is that a bash on the suburbs? I've lived in the suburbs most of my life, and I've never seen a lack of individuality (just have a talk with my parents, they're quite unique), nor have I seen more than just a few examples of rabid consumerism. We had more money than some and less money than some. This means that our cars are of better quality, our house is bigger, and we have a few more modern conveniences than the former group, but less than the latter. This isn't because my family started rich. My great-grandad worked in a lumber yard and my grandparents never rose above lower middle class. My mom came from an even more humble background. Her father was a farmer, then worked for AP&L Electric Company. My parents have a better education and thus better jobs than some people, wo we have a few more conveniences. Explain to me what is wrong with that?

See, perfect example of 'straw man'. How can all teachers be liberal? If liberals don't have any standards, how would you identify a liberal? And where is there any proof that liberals don't like competiton?

Most teachers I know (not all, as my mom is a teacher) are liberal. They hate Bush, despise the Iraq War, want higher taxes, want more social programs, most are environmentalists to the core, and nearly every one of them buys the liberal media lines hook, line, and sinker. Teachers, as a whole, are liberal. It's actually a well known fact. As for not liking competition, have you seen a lot of the liberal programs instituted in education? They eliminated honors classes and valdevictorian at my school, along with several academic competitions. Why? It's because (and this is not a theory, this is what they told me with a straight face) they didn't want to make the losers of such competitions feel bad. They were so afraid of making anyone feel inferior to anyone else (unless that anyone else was on a varsity team) that they sacrificed the former's education and chance to shine in order to eliminate competition. This is the same kind of goal they're going for in the social programs. The ultimate goal of liberalism is to tax everyone up to their eyebrows (especially the rich) and then have Big Daddy Government spend their money for them so that people who make it big don't make it THAT big, thus making the people that didn't make it big feel bad. It's sick.

 

[Isaac Brock]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings, but it's not going to happen.

But the question is, should it happen?

The point i'm getting at is that many vocal opponents want to ban gay television. Personal or ethical issues aside for the moment, I do believe your country has strong provisions for free speech and the free media. Unless homosexuality is outlawed, than I cannot see the case for restriction or banning it from telelvision.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You can't cut taxes, you can freeze them, and bring them down, but outright cutting them dosen't work. Things the gov't need to spend money, dosen't get any cheaper, why shut off your revenue, whil you only get more expenses?

I didn't advocate eliminating taxes completely. I'd just like to see them reduced significantly.

Improving your individual life yourself is fine, just allow everyone the right to do it aswell.

Income redistribution (Government sponsored stealing) should not be a career choice.

Life is like a game, a race, it's just not a fair race. The problem is you have shoes to race in and some people have bare feet, why not supply some shoes, so the can have a chance at progressing.

The reality is that people wind up with vastly different results in life due to vastly different skill levels, and character traits. Inequality is not ONLY a byproduct of social evil. A state where people cannot excel based on their efforts is a totalitarian hell of stagnation.

Which tyrannies have used liberalism? Not communism, or even socilasim, but liberalism. All tyrannies is a very broad term. And certain regims can be argued either way. But which tyrannies?

Totalitarianism is totalitarianism regardless of the era.

So far, denouncing ideas with no real counter point has really shwon your ability to utilize the 'straw man arguement' to it's full extent. Do you even know what it means?

It's implying an argument your opponent is not making and then refuting that argument. A good example is earlier in this post when you said it was impractical to eliminate taxes completely. I didn't say that. Oops, you did it again.

What is human nature then? Is it primarily for self interest? Are we all just greedy pigs, trying to consume more then the next? Self interest cannot be unlearned, but people have definetly tried. But where does self interest end, and love for your fellow man begin (get it?, fellow man, it's a gay thread, get it?). Individuality very important to everyone. Thats why i would never live in the suburbs.

Yes. yes. more generalized hatred of humanity I see, and irrational hatred of the suburbs. How very left of you. sad really.

See, perfect example of 'straw man'. How can all teachers be liberal? If liberals don't have any standards, how would you identify a liberal? And where is there any proof that liberals don't like competiton?

You really don't get what "straw man" means do you? Liberals generally rail against competition, just like you were above, decrying and villifying the very concept of self interest.

Your counter to my statement was just ridiculous caricature of my arguement, if no facts or even somewhat real ideas. You might want to check your boots.

You sir, are ridiculous!

 

[Hobbit]

The point i'm getting at is that many vocal opponents want to ban gay television. Personal or ethical issues aside for the moment, I do believe your country has strong provisions for free speech and the free media. Unless homosexuality is outlawed, than I cannot see the case for restriction or banning it from telelvision.

While there are certain things I think should not be considered free speech which are, this station fall under free speech, and there are far more offensive things on other mainstream channels. Let it run, I just don't think it'll be that successful. It'll probably be like the XFL. It'll have a big premier, and then just drop in ratings until it's cancelled.

 

[Isaac Brock]

While there are certain things I think should not be considered free speech which are, this station fall under free speech, and there are far more offensive things on other mainstream channels. Let it run, I just don't think it'll be that successful. It'll probably be like the XFL. It'll have a big premier, and then just drop in ratings until it's cancelled.

And you know what, you're quite possibly right. I think Marbles put it best. It'll be a fad, when being gay is being hip. Overexposure, will make people get used to it and the channel might very well fold. But hey, if they think they can make it for the long run, all the power to them.

 

[MrMarbles]

Cutting taxes stimulates the economy, and quite well, might I add. Although it will lower tax revenues in the short term, the addition of more taxable income to the economy will result in greater tax revenues given time.

You have a point. Then cut taxes to small bussiness and lower income individuals. It's these people that will help bring things along and expand, not large corporations were the extra cash will just go straight to the CEO's pocket.

Is that a bash on the suburbs? I've lived in the suburbs most of my life, and I've never seen a lack of individuality (just have a talk with my parents, they're quite unique), nor have I seen more than just a few examples of rabid consumerism. We had more money than some and less money than some. This means that our cars are of better quality, our house is bigger, and we have a few more modern conveniences than the former group, but less than the latter. This isn't because my family started rich. My great-grandad worked in a lumber yard and my grandparents never rose above lower middle class. My mom came from an even more humble background. Her father was a farmer, then worked for AP&L Electric Company. My parents have a better education and thus better jobs than some people, wo we have a few more conveniences. Explain to me what is wrong with that?

This was just a dig at the suburbs. They're just not for me.

Most teachers I know (not all, as my mom is a teacher) are liberal. They hate Bush, despise the Iraq War, want higher taxes, want more social programs, most are environmentalists to the core, and nearly every one of them buys the liberal media lines hook, line, and sinker. Teachers, as a whole, are liberal. It's actually a well known fact. As for not liking competition, have you seen a lot of the liberal programs instituted in education? They eliminated honors classes and valdevictorian at my school, along with several academic competitions. Why? It's because (and this is not a theory, this is what they told me with a straight face) they didn't want to make the losers of such competitions feel bad. They were so afraid of making anyone feel inferior to anyone else (unless that anyone else was on a varsity team) that they sacrificed the former's education and chance to shine in order to eliminate competition. This is the same kind of goal they're going for in the social programs. The ultimate goal of liberalism is to tax everyone up to their eyebrows (especially the rich) and then have Big Daddy Government spend their money for them so that people who make it big don't make it THAT big, thus making the people that didn't make it big feel bad. It's sick.

So the educated group of individuals that are responsible for teaching the leaders of tomorrrow are liberal, eh? Good, put man first, wealth and consumerism second. Maybe in ten-twenty years time we can start seeing a move in america towards the left (and i don't mean just democrats, they're not left at all).

Eliminating competition is silly. What they did in your school is silly. Where i'm from, a left province in a left country, we still have all those institutions.
And again, liberal goals are not to 'tax you to the eyeballs', or anything, it's just about looking after the people who you govern. Putting them first over anything else.

Now RWA.....

I didn't advocate eliminating taxes completely. I'd just like to see them reduced significantly.

Fine, cut taxes. Go ahead. It will be very hard to wage a war, and defend ones self from terrorsim on a shoe string budget.

Income redistribution (Government sponsored stealing) should not be a career choice.

Thats taxes for you. Your gov't already does it. They just put towards killing instead of healing, or feeding, or housing.

The reality is that people wind up with vastly different results in life due to vastly different skill levels, and character traits. Inequality is not ONLY a byproduct of social evil. A state where people cannot excel based on their efforts is a totalitarian hell of stagnation.

I know, i work in sport. But there is a difference between personal abilities, and just having the right equipment to beable to compete in the first place.

Totalitarianism is totalitarianism regardless of the era.

OK, i got that. You said

...liberalism is the tyrannies of old, dressed up with a fresh coat of political rationalizations.

So how? Where? and which tyrannie of old is using liberalsim to come back and suppress us?

It's implying an argument your opponent is not making and then refuting that argument. A good example is earlier in this post when you said it was impractical to eliminate taxes completely. I didn't say that. Oops, you did it again.

When i use it, it is to exaggerate my point and to make it as clear as possible. You just claim that everyone who disagrees with you utilizes it, when in fact you are it's greatest proponent.

You really don't get what "straw man" means do you? Liberals generally rail against competition, just like you were above, decrying and villifying the very concept of self interest.

Just like conservative who use it when decrying, and villifying helping those in need.

You sir, are ridiculous!

Well, I may be ridiculous, but i'd rather be that, then a dumbass. Dumbass.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Now RWA.....

Yes dear?

Fine, cut taxes. Go ahead. It will be very hard to wage a war, and defend ones self from terrorsim on a shoe string budget.

We WILL cut taxes, thanks. Our economy will GROW, providing more revenue to defeat world socialism and islamic fundamentalism. If you were wise, you'd advocate the same.

Thats taxes for you. Your gov't already does it. They just put towards killing instead of healing, or feeding, or housing.

Unfortunately the world is such that we need to spend on defense. Unfortunately, ignoring threats doesn't make them go away. Go read about Neville Chamberlain and appeasement.

I know, i work in sport. But there is a difference between personal abilities, and just having the right equipment to beable to compete in the first place.

Oh really? May I call you "Sport". Hey Sport. That's cool. It's like "Chief", "Tiger", or "Champ".

OK, i got that. You said So how? Where? and which tyrannie of old is using liberalsim to come back and suppress us?

All tyrants seek to condemn control and suppress the needs of their people. Your attack on "consumerism" is an attack on human hopes, freedoms, dreams, and imagination, just like tyrants. Liberals would LOVE to shut down talk radio too, just like a tyrant would.

When i use it, it is to exaggerate my point and to make it as clear as possible. You just claim that everyone who disagrees with you utilizes it, when in fact you are it's greatest proponent.

You implied I was against all taxes, as sure as the sun is hot you did. That's false. Hence, a straw man. Your general statements are unfounded.

Just like conservative who use it when decrying, and villifying helping those in need.

Whining isn't helping. when it comes to charitable giving, conservatives win hands down.

Well, I may be ridiculous, but i'd rather be that, then a dumbass. Dumbass.

THis is known as an adhominem attack. It's another logical fallacy and, as such, is unconvincing.

 

[MrMarbles]

RWA,
Do you seriously believe every word you've written about this topic? 'Cause if you do, thats pretty sad. To assume that everyone who dosen't agree with you, is evil, is wrong. To assume your answers and beliefs are the only way, the right way, is wrong. Nothing is perfect. Extremes are evil. America is already a very 'right wing' country, to go any further will have only negative effects. Your view on liberalism is one sign of it. If I look radical to you, well your in for a big surprise, i'm left, but centre left. I'm not radical, i'm right on par with most of the world. It is people like you in America that are radical, almost fanatical. When everyone one around you starts to look crazy, maybe it's a good time to step back, and take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror, and really determine who actually is the crazy one out there.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

RWA,
Do you seriously believe every word you've written about this topic? 'Cause if you do, thats pretty sad. To assume that everyone who dosen't agree with you, is evil, is wrong. To assume your answers and beliefs are the only way, the right way, is wrong. Nothing is perfect. Extremes are evil. America is already a very 'right wing' country, to go any further will have only negative effects. Your view on liberalism is one sign of it. If I look radical to you, well your in for a big surprise, i'm left, but centre left. I'm not radical, i'm right on par with most of the world. It is people like you in America that are radical, almost fanatical. When everyone one around you starts to look crazy, maybe it's a good time to step back, and take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror, and really determine who actually is the crazy one out there.

Rant much?
Jeez!

I know you feel right, and I know that the adrenaline surge of being in the mob and the security of abandoning reason for the glittering generalities of dystopian collectivism are tempting narcotics for your scared, average intellect, but try to wise up. The world is MORE free because of American fanatics like myself, not less. Learn history and get a clue.

 

[deciophobic]

Seeing that the homosexual population is around 1-2%, I can't see how this network would survive.

How is Queer Eye For the Straight Guy surviving w/ only a 1-2% population??

 

[DKSuddeth]

How is Queer Eye For the Straight Guy surviving w/ only a 1-2% population??

it carries a huge female audience, the 'metrosexual' crowd. My oldest daughter watches that because it cracks her up.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

it carries a huge female audience, the 'metrosexual' crowd. My oldest daughter watches that because it cracks her up.

That one blonde guy has a nice smile. And he's sassy and clever.

 

[DKSuddeth]

That one blonde guy has a nice smile. And he's sassy and clever.

thats her favorite.

 

[MrMarbles]

Rant much?
Jeez!

I know you feel right, and I know that the adrenaline surge of being in the mob and the security of abandoning reason for the glittering generalities of dystopian collectivism are tempting narcotics for your scared, average intellect, but try to wise up. The world is MORE free because of American fanatics like myself, not less. Learn history and get a clue.

Think left and thing right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try.

Your right. America has done a lot to help the world, IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY! After that, American foreign policy has done a lot of damage to fellow democratic nations. Chile, El Salvador, Panama, South Vietnam, etc. Your (and my) grandfathers did good. They fought hard and brave to live in peace. Now lets try to fellow they're example.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Think left and thing right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try.

Your right. America has done a lot to help the world, IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY! After that, American foreign policy has done a lot of damage to fellow democratic nations. Chile, El Salvador, Panama, South Vietnam, etc. Your (and my) grandfathers did good. They fought hard and brave to live in peace. Now lets try to fellow they're example.

by capitulating to socialism and terrorism? No thanks.

 

[MrMarbles]

by capitulating to socialism and terrorism? No thanks.

I don't have to capitulate, just don't go messing with other countries.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I don't have to capitulate, just don't go messing with other countries.

Could we sum up your foreign policy view as, "speak softly and wear a yellow streak down your back"?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Could we sum up your foreign policy view as, "speak softly and wear a yellow streak down your back"?

or don't speak at all and hide in their cave. same result everytime.

 

[MrMarbles]

Could we sum up your foreign policy view as, "speak softly and wear a yellow streak down your back"?

Just don't give them a reason to hate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Just don't give them a reason to hate.

Tyrants will always hate more evolved forms of governance. This will never end as long as freedom exists somewhere. We might as well take a stand now. Well, those who care about freedom should. The fact that you canadians and eurolibs seem to side in many ways with the terrorists simply because of your envy of the u.s. is disgusting.