Obamacare: What happens when you can't afford to pay?

[baker001]

Sorry. But lets be real.....800K for 24 hours of care?

If you are going to make crap up, at least make it believable.

Why would I make it up? I'm trying to point out something could help a person make a less risky financial choice.

If you're curious, he was transferred between two hospitals by life flight, that alone was billed at $30k (my boss was so taken aback by the amount she mentioned it specifically). An ICU bed at two hospitals, specialists, tests out the wazoo, I could see it getting that high that fast. If you haven't been hospitalized in the last 10 years you may not be aware of how much all this stuff costs these days. A normal run-of-the-mill medical emergency, even a serious one, wouldn't be nearly as much I agree. But this wasn't a typical case.

The point was, that this healthy person that never used his health insurance outside of routine check-ups for almost 60 years of his life, went from healthy to dead in very short order and without insurance would have bankrupted his widow (and these are not people without means). Trying to sign up for health insurance after that fact wouldn't have worked/helped (which is what Zander stated was his/her grand plan in his/her original post) and no time for medical tourism to get cheaper care (not to mention he wouldn't have been stable enough to leave the country, they barely got him stable enough to move him 10 miles to a hospital with more resources to try and help him).

Are the odds a long shot of something similar happening to you? Possibly, maybe even probably . One I'd be willing to take? Not in a million years.

Anyway, like I said, believe what you want. You want to take a chance that a medical disaster won't befall you, or if it does you'll have scraped up enough money to cover it, knock yourself out. You might get lucky and it all works out. You might not and go bankrupt. Your life, your choice.

Good for you. I hope you live a long and healthy life. When and if you get sick, I hope the insurance you are counting on is there for you. Hopefully there will be Doctors in the US that can get you the care you need.

I am not worried about a catastrophic event or illness that kills me quickly. I have a very large, low cost, life insurance policy that will provide for my loved ones if that happens

Meanwhile I will be enjoying my extra $13,000/year that I didn't waste trying to insure against a very unlikely actuarial risk.

Thank you for your well wishes, even with excellent health insurance having serious health issues is no picnic and something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Just as you aren't worried about a catastrophic illness/injury wiping you or your loved ones out, I'm not too worried about doctors and hospitals fleeing the area. They are all expanding around here, have been for years (even after ACA was signed into law).

You enjoy your money from your health care savings, I'll enjoy the peace of mind having insurance brings. Hopefully we'll both be just fine, but only time will tell.

 

[francoHFW]

100- Oh BS- But maybe waiting til insurers are really competing won't hurt Pub dupes too much, if they're lucky...

 

[william the wie]

Actually if you had adult interest in the news you would know that the bond ratings of insurance companies participating in Ocare have been downgraded by Moody's and Aetna is talking withdrawal from the exchanges.

 

[Zander]

Actually if you had adult interest in the news you would know that the bond ratings of insurance companies participating in Ocare have been downgraded by Moody's and Aetna is talking withdrawal from the exchanges.

There is nothing to worry about. We have hope and change and an unlimited supply of QE. We can bail out the insurance companies and "save" them like we did GM.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SwimExpert]

Who do you think paid for it before when that person went to an ER instead?

Before? The same thing will still be happening. Just because you force someone to buy health insurance doesn't mean that they have money left over to pay the deductibles, co-pays, and co-insurance that go along with actually using said insurance.

 

[1776]

There are different groups of liberals....insane, evil and stupid.

The stupid ones are the followers willing to let the insane and evil ones fuck up their lives....

 

[SwimExpert]

The ACA doesn't have that requirement and I highly doubt your state does either.

On what basis do you make this conclusion? Oh that's right. You simply assume that everything is okay, because you're a blind partisan who is in love with everything Obama.

 

[The T]

There are different groups of liberals....insane, evil and stupid.

The stupid ones are the followers willing to let the insane and evil ones fuck up their lives....

And be HAPPY about it...

 

[1776]

FYI....Pelosi is insane, stupid and evil.....

 

[The T]

FYI....Pelosi is insane, stupid and evil.....

She's an elitist like the rest of the criminals in the District of Criminals.

 

[SwimExpert]

Hmm, now let's assume Obamacare does not exist. If a family can't afford health insurance, what do they do when one of them gets sick? Who pays? If they get really sick, and the bills go into the hundreds of thousands or even more, who pays?

Nobody pays. Which is the same thing that happens with Obamacare. The people who cannot afford to pay still will not pay. Because they don't have the money. This is a very simple concept, and only willful ignorance can explain people not getting it.

What you fail to mention is that under Ocare, if you are really poor, you go on Medicaid. If you are a low income earner and do not qualify for Medicaid, then the government subsidizes your premium so that it is affordable enough for you to pay for it.

You clearly weren't paying attention. I already explained that that's not true.

The fact is that for low income earners, Obamacare is a Godsend and anyone choosing not to take advantage of it is an idiot.

Yeah. It's a Godsend to be forced to spend $150 a month on health insurance, and still not have the money to pay for a doctor's visit.

Those who are being hurt by Ocare are those who earn just enough to not receive a subsidy and who are also older. They are getting clobbered by Ocare, because the rates are astronomical for this group of people. This is something that needs to be addressed.

And what you don't seem to realize is that this includes pretty much any low income person who isn't already on food stamps.

 

[Freewill]

Sure, if you live in Pub Propaganda World...

Z, don't worry, you won't have those free preventive care tests, so by the time you find out you have cancer or many other things, it'll be too late anyway. Ah, life with Pubcare...

Oh gosh another liberal fallacy and I don't think you meant it. FREE? In his example he would be paying 13000/year doesn't seem like anything would be FREE. I guess in Dem world everything coming from the government is FREE, to them.

At no cost then, hater dupe. And there's more you get than that. He should actually SEE what's involved, just like all the other chumps of the greedy idiot rich. Real competitition hasn't even started yet. Good things take time- especially with Pubs and insurers messing things up, just like bad things, like the Pub/Voodoo ruin of the nonrich and the country 1982-2009- Even before the SECOND pub cronyism and corruption 2008 Meltdown, or the total incompetence of 9/11 and the two longest and stupidest wars EVER.

Talk about voo doo economics. How you think paying, PAYING 13000/year and getting a physical is free is just plain idiocy. The democrats have had their way with obamacare for 6 years now if it is messed up there is absolutely no one to blame but the liberals. At least liberals won't have to worry about brain surgery.

 

[healthmyths]

What happens when a person can't afford health insurance that the law now requires?

Answer:
They don't buy insurance, and end up getting slammed with a tax at the end of the year. Obamacare taxes the poor.


What happens when a person can only afford a plan with the highest possible deductible, in order to keep their monthly premium down?

Answer:
They can't afford to actually use their health insurance, because they have a little to no disposable income. Thus, they cannot afford the deductibles, co-pays, and co-insurance costs associated with actually going to the doctor. Obamacare directly imposes financial hardships on low income people, which they cannot even benefit from.


What happens when a person can't afford to pay their deductibles, but they have an emergency medical problem and end up in the ER?

Answer:
They don't have the money, so they don't pay. Obamacare does absolutely nothing to address the problem of increasing costs of health care due to poor and low income people fail to pay medical bills.


So how is it exactly that Democrats can justify supporting this monstrosity?

Premiums cannot exceed 9.5% of income.

Are you suggesting that these people should remain uninsured?

WHAT people remain uninsured?
10 million of the 46 million uninsured ARE NOT citizens!
14 million are people like my brother. Ignorant. They like him ONLY need to go register with Medicaid and they are already eligible!
It is a fact that the Census didn't ask the quote 46 million uninsured...according to your income level you qualify for Medicaid..
Of the 44.7 million non-elderly uninsured individuals identified in the 2004 Census Current Population Survey (CPS) data, nearly one-third — almost 14 million — were reachable through existing government health programs such as Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) under current rules.
The Actuarial Research Corporation (ARC) estimates that about 9 million of these individuals actually were enrolled in Medicaid during the year,
but were categorized as uninsured in the Census survey.

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf

Finally 18 million are the ones ACA is going after.. the under 34 that make over $50,000 that don't want health insurance or want their employers plans!

When you add these 42 million you come up with LESS THEN 4 MILLION!

WHY then did ACA supporters keep using 46 million???

 

[Freewill]

You going to "Fly to mexico" when you get in to a car accident? "Nah, I don't need an ambulance....get me on a plane!"

Do you actually think any of this shit through before you say it?

Car accident? BFD. We'll dip into our savings. We're willing to "self insure'. Why does that scare you?

Nothing wrong with self insuring, but that only works if you can afford to do so. You're betting you won't get sick/injured between now and when you hit the amounts in savings where it would cover major medical issues, based on your numbers that's a good 10 years away (and even then $130k is not an amount I would consider being self insured, I'd put that closer to $500k). And that very well may happen, you stay healthy and save and you come out ahead of the game. Or you could get hit with massive medical bills before you get to that point and you're wiped out.

And just because you haven't been sick yet doesn't mean you won't be tomorrow. My boss's husband was the pillar of health. One day he felt horribly ill and was rushed to the hospital. 24 hours later he was dead (some form of leukemia, shows no real symptoms until it gets to the point where you basically drop dead). My boss has insurance and it covered everything ,but she said the medical bills topped $800,000. For only 24 hours of care!

What you do with your life is up to you, no skin off my nose either way, but your plan carries a certain amount of risk.

If it were 800,000 for 24 hours of care and he died anyway who in the hell is really ripping people off? Seems to me it is the hospitals. But that is the way it has been for some time and I am not sure how Obamacare is going to reduce the cost. Sure we can say competition like in the auto insurance industry where everyone is suppose to have insurance. But with auto insurance anyone anywhere can cover your car. Not so with health care. We have one major hospital within 30 miles of my house I don't see there being much completion and there are lots of other people who live further from hospitals/doctors.

In reality what do health care insurance companies really do? The negotiate a price with health care providers for their services. What does Medicare/Medicaid do? They dictate the price they are going to pay the providers. So those not on Medicare/Medicaid pay premiums to make up the difference. The way things are now it is pretty screwed up in my opinion.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Oh gosh another liberal fallacy and I don't think you meant it. FREE? In his example he would be paying 13000/year doesn't seem like anything would be FREE. I guess in Dem world everything coming from the government is FREE, to them.

At no cost then, hater dupe. And there's more you get than that. He should actually SEE what's involved, just like all the other chumps of the greedy idiot rich. Real competitition hasn't even started yet. Good things take time- especially with Pubs and insurers messing things up, just like bad things, like the Pub/Voodoo ruin of the nonrich and the country 1982-2009- Even before the SECOND pub cronyism and corruption 2008 Meltdown, or the total incompetence of 9/11 and the two longest and stupidest wars EVER.

Talk about voo doo economics. How you think paying, PAYING 13000/year and getting a physical is free is just plain idiocy. The democrats have had their way with obamacare for 6 years now if it is messed up there is absolutely no one to blame but the liberals. At least liberals won't have to worry about brain surgery.

about to take another turn for the worse

Aetna CEO Says They May Pull Out of Obamacare Because It’s Not Attracting The Uninsured

Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini told CNBC on Wednesday that Obamacare has failed to attract the uninsured, and he offered a scenario in which the insurance company could be forced to pull out of program.

The company will be submitting Obamacare rates for 2015 on May 15.

“Are they going to be double-digit [increases] or are we going to get beat up because they’re double-digit or are we just going to have to pull out of the program?” Bertolini asked in a “Squawk Box” interview from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “Those questions can’t be answered until we see the population we have today. And we really don’t have a good view on that.”

He said that so far, Obamacare has just shifted people who were insured in the individual market to the public exchanges where they could get a better deal on a subsidy for coverage. “We see only 11 percent of the population is actually people that were firmly uninsured that are now insured. So [it] didn’t really eat into the uninsured population.”

For Obamacare to work better, it needs more flexibility and choice of insurance programs, Bertolini said. “We need to make it a lot more simpler for people. There needs to be more choice. When you get more choice, you make it more of a market and you get more people in the program.”

Aetna could be forced out of Obamacare: CEO Mark Bertolini

 

[deltex1]

Premiums cannot exceed 9.5% of income.

You call that affordable?

Let's take someone making $9/hr, single and no dependents

$9 * 2080 hrs = $18,720 yearly income.

18,720 * .85 = $15,912 est. after tax income

$15,912 / 12 = $1326 monthly after tax income


Rent -- $500
Utilities -- $100
Food -- $200
Phone -- $50
Misc toiletries -- $50
Car Ins -- $50
Gas -- $200
Obamacare -- $148

Total monthly expenses = $1298
Total monthly useable income = $28

Are you suggesting that these people should remain uninsured?

I'm not suggesting that anyone should do anything, and the question does not address the point. Obamacare is an assault on the poor and low income people in our country.

Live with mom.
Work 60 hours per week.
Bike to work.
Get rid of the phone.
Now you are on your way.

 

[healthmyths]

Car accident? BFD. We'll dip into our savings. We're willing to "self insure'. Why does that scare you?

Nothing wrong with self insuring, but that only works if you can afford to do so. You're betting you won't get sick/injured between now and when you hit the amounts in savings where it would cover major medical issues, based on your numbers that's a good 10 years away (and even then $130k is not an amount I would consider being self insured, I'd put that closer to $500k). And that very well may happen, you stay healthy and save and you come out ahead of the game. Or you could get hit with massive medical bills before you get to that point and you're wiped out.

And just because you haven't been sick yet doesn't mean you won't be tomorrow. My boss's husband was the pillar of health. One day he felt horribly ill and was rushed to the hospital. 24 hours later he was dead (some form of leukemia, shows no real symptoms until it gets to the point where you basically drop dead). My boss has insurance and it covered everything ,but she said the medical bills topped $800,000. For only 24 hours of care!

What you do with your life is up to you, no skin off my nose either way, but your plan carries a certain amount of risk.

If it were 800,000 for 24 hours of care and he died anyway who in the hell is really ripping people off? Seems to me it is the hospitals. But that is the way it has been for some time and I am not sure how Obamacare is going to reduce the cost. Sure we can say competition like in the auto insurance industry where everyone is suppose to have insurance. But with auto insurance anyone anywhere can cover your car. Not so with health care. We have one major hospital within 30 miles of my house I don't see there being much completion and there are lots of other people who live further from hospitals/doctors.

In reality what do health care insurance companies really do? The negotiate a price with health care providers for their services. What does Medicare/Medicaid do? They dictate the price they are going to pay the providers. So those not on Medicare/Medicaid pay premiums to make up the difference. The way things are now it is pretty screwed up in my opinion.

Here is reality!
90% of physicians say they spend $850 billion a year WASTEFULLY!
WHY?
Fear of lawsuits!
So health ins.companies/Medicare PAY the claims.. they too don't want to waste time in lawsuits!

That is truly the biggest cost driver.
Then this stupid ignorant ACA forces insurance companies to pay 85% of their premiums in claims!
So here we have the average insurance company NOT able then to have reserves which are required by regulators to pay future claims.
When 85 cents goes out in claims THat leaves 15%
Right now the average company has about 5% net profit. Ignorant don't know that "profits" create the reserves!

So what is the alternative?
Insurance companies go out of business. Which is what Obama who says he prefers a single payer.. i.e. 1,300 companies go out of business that pay
$100 billion in federal/state/local taxes while employing 400,000 people!

On the other hand if we taxed lawyers'$270 billion the same 10% as tanning salons that $27 billion would pay $5,000 premium for each of the truly 4 million uninsured!

 

[SwimExpert]

Premiums cannot exceed 9.5% of income.

You call that affordable?

Let's take someone making $9/hr, single and no dependents

$9 * 2080 hrs = $18,720 yearly income.

18,720 * .85 = $15,912 est. after tax income

$15,912 / 12 = $1326 monthly after tax income


Rent -- $500
Utilities -- $100
Food -- $200
Phone -- $50
Misc toiletries -- $50
Car Ins -- $50
Gas -- $200
Obamacare -- $148

Total monthly expenses = $1298
Total monthly useable income = $28

Are you suggesting that these people should remain uninsured?

I'm not suggesting that anyone should do anything, and the question does not address the point. Obamacare is an assault on the poor and low income people in our country.

Live with mom.
Work 60 hours per week.
Bike to work.
Get rid of the phone.
Now you are on your way.

And that somehow makes Obamacare a good idea?

 

[jon_berzerk]

You call that affordable?

Let's take someone making $9/hr, single and no dependents

$9 * 2080 hrs = $18,720 yearly income.

18,720 * .85 = $15,912 est. after tax income

$15,912 / 12 = $1326 monthly after tax income


Rent -- $500
Utilities -- $100
Food -- $200
Phone -- $50
Misc toiletries -- $50
Car Ins -- $50
Gas -- $200
Obamacare -- $148

Total monthly expenses = $1298
Total monthly useable income = $28



I'm not suggesting that anyone should do anything, and the question does not address the point. Obamacare is an assault on the poor and low income people in our country.

Live with mom.
Work 60 hours per week.
Bike to work.
Get rid of the phone.
Now you are on your way.

And that somehow makes Obamacare a good idea?

the fly in the ointment

is that employers are moving employees to part time

--LOL

 

[SwimExpert]

the fly in the ointment

is that employers are moving employees to part time

--LOL

That's true, most companies are doing that. Though from what I can tell there's also a flip side. I know that my company is cutting people down to part time as much as they can, and have been doing so for the past year. But they are also making insurance available to part timers. And from what I've been hearing from other people I know, alot of companies are doing the same thing.

The catch? The insurance that is now being offer is insanely expensive, in the range of $200-$300 a month for a single person. This creates yet another quagmire for many people. Because their employer offers insurance, so it's "available." It's just not affordable.