Obama’s Illegitimate War on Israel

[theHawk]

So you're saying that your beloved prophet, Jesus, was born as a result of rape?

You never heard me call it rape.

You're friend Kalam is. What do you think about that?

 

[Sunni Man]

I seriously doubt that he did.

Proof?????

 

[Kalam]

It doesn't mean A'isha didn't tell the truth about her own life with Muhammed.

Aishah's honesty is not being debated. The honesty of the chain of people who transmitted the report in question to Bukhari, on the other hand, is.

You'd think those old Muslim orators would of "corrected" the 9 year old age thing, but apparently they thought it was OK.

Marriage at a young age was not uncommon at the time, and Hazrat Aishah Siddiqah was by all accounts an exceptionally intelligent woman. This may have led those who altered the age to believe that she had attained "intellectual maturity" and that she would have still been at a marriageable age had she been younger. The dates, however, are inconsistent with their claims, and demonstrating her true age is more of an issue of correcting an historical inaccuracy than it is an attempt to polish the character of Muhammad (SAW.)

Yes, I did say that. Now where did I say someone had sex with Mary when she was a child or before she conceived Jesus? Nope, didn't happen.

YOU are the one that just said a 90-year old Joseph did.

Joseph, who was 90, had sex with Mary nine months after she became pregnant at 12. Did she magically attain adulthood? I disagree with your definition of rape. Historically, the age of consent was much lower and applying your definition necessarily involves drawing the conclusion that Joseph was a pedophile and that Mary was raped by God. Obviously, this isn't the case, right?

 

[theHawk]

I seriously doubt that he did.

Proof?????

Wow....do you guys always just "play dumb" when exposed like this?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1611835-post136.html

and...

She was twelve, capitano. Does that qualify as adulthood?

Whose penis penatrated her btw?

Ninety year-old Joseph's after she had Jesus. I'd think that baby Jesus coming out would be painful enough, anyway.

 

[theHawk]

It doesn't mean A'isha didn't tell the truth about her own life with Muhammed.

Aishah's honesty is not being debated. The honesty of the chain of people who transmitted the report in question to Bukhari, on the other hand, is.

You'd think those old Muslim orators would of "corrected" the 9 year old age thing, but apparently they thought it was OK.

Marriage at a young age was not uncommon at the time, and Hazrat Aishah Siddiqah was by all accounts an exceptionally intelligent woman. This may have led those who altered the age to believe that she had attained "intellectual maturity" and that she would have still been at a marriageable age had she been younger. The dates, however, are inconsistent with their claims, and demonstrating her true age is more of an issue of correcting an historical inaccuracy than it is an attempt to polish the character of Muhammad (SAW.)

Yes, I did say that. Now where did I say someone had sex with Mary when she was a child or before she conceived Jesus? Nope, didn't happen.

YOU are the one that just said a 90-year old Joseph did.

Joseph, who was 90, had sex with Mary nine months after she became pregnant at 12. Did she magically attain adulthood? I disagree with your definition of rape. Historically, the age of consent was much lower and applying your definition necessarily involves drawing the conclusion that Joseph was a pedophile and that Mary was raped by God. Obviously, this isn't the case, right?

By all reliable Muslim accounts, A'isha was 18 when she died, and that was 9 years after her marriage to him. And on mulitple occasions and sources she cited she was 6 when the marriage was declared and 9 when he "consummated" it. Just keep sticking your head in the sand though, its worked for ya so far.

Again, the Mary was "12" when she conceived is pure speculation. There is not one reliable source that can back up that claim. If all you have is "most Jews at that time married that young" then its pretty damned thin.

Obviously people choose to believe what they want. If you want to believe that your prophet Jesus was born as a result of a 90-year old raping a 12 year old then go right on ahead and believe it. Otherwise, I don't know what you are trying to claim about your own prophet Jesus and how he was brought into this world.
If you want to believe in the rantings of an old man who willingly had sex with a 9 year old then go right on ahead.

But realize that it is you who is disregarding reliable sources, and citing unreliable sources to fit your beliefs.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I'll condemn any people who commit rape or genocide. Whether or not they consider themselves Muslims is of little consequence to me.

So you do condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail?

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof. )

Why the hell would I care about defending Ismail Ibn Sharif?

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them.

So do you condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

 

[Sunni Man]

Kalams statement had a question mark, and was in the form of a sarcastic comback to you Hawk

Kalam knows Christian theology as well as you do.

In no way does he believe that God or anyone else raped Mary.

Hawk, you are being disingenuous in alledging that Kalam believes Mary was raped.

 

[Sunni Man]

So you do condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail?

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof. )

Why the hell would I care about defending Ismail Ibn Sharif?

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them. so

So do you condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

Do you condemn Soloman, David, Moses, etc. for committing murder and genocide against other tribes and people??

 

[theHawk]

Kalams statement had a question mark, and was in the form of a sarcastic comback to you Hawk

Kalam know Christian theology as well as you do.

In no way does he believe that God or anyone else raped Mary.

Hawk, you are being disingenuous in alledging that Kalam believes Mary was raped.

He IS claiming a 90-year old had sex with a 12 year old Mary.

He is trying to make it sound like thats A-OK, so thus its A-OK if a 50-something year old has sex with a nine year old.

This speaks volumes about you people and your mentality.

 

[Sunni Man]

Joseph, reguardless of age, was married to Mary, whatever her age was.

They apparently had sex, because Jesus's half brothers were mentioned in the Bible by name.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof. )

Why the hell would I care about defending Ismail Ibn Sharif?

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them. so

So do you condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

Do you condemn Soloman, David, Moses, etc. for committing murder and genocide against other tribes and people??

Murder and War are two separate things.

Yes, I do condemn Moses and David for committing murder and so did God. See? That wasn't so hard was it?

Back to the topic...

So do you condemn Mohammed and Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

I never thought it would be so hard to get "moderate" Muslims to condemn "fanatical" ideals.

 

[Sunni Man]

I never thought it would be so hard to get "moderate" Muslims to condemn "fanatical" ideals.

So you consider me a "moderate" muslim?

 

[THE LIGHT]

Joseph, reguardless of age, was married to Mary, whatever her age was.

They apparently had sex, because Jesus's half brothers were mentioned in the Bible by name.

...and the sky is blue...

 

[THE LIGHT]

I never thought it would be so hard to get "moderate" Muslims to condemn "fanatical" ideals.

So you consider me a "moderate" muslim?

Most Muslims like to be considered "moderate" so I was being nice but what do you consider yourself?

 

[Sunni Man]

I never thought it would be so hard to get "moderate" Muslims to condemn "fanatical" ideals.

So you consider me a "moderate" muslim?

Most Muslims like to be considered "moderate" so I was being nice but what do you consider yourself?

There is no Islam "Lite"

Islam is what it is

 

[Kalam]

By all reliable Muslim accounts, A'isha was 18 when she died, and that was 9 years after her marriage to him.

Aishah died in 678 and was active in the Islamic community for decades after her marriage to Muhammad (SAW) and his death. She even raised and commanded an army against Ali when he was Khalifah. No source that I know of, Muslim or otherwise, claims that she died at age 18.

And on mulitple occasions and sources she cited she was 6 when the marriage was declared and 9 when he "consummated" it. Just keep sticking your head in the sand though, its worked for ya so far.

She did so according to a hadith cited by several hadith collectors. I've yet to hear why you believe that this 200-year-old oral tradition was recorded accurately as opposed to, say, those dealing with the nature of Muhammad's (SAW) revelation.

Again, the Mary was "12" when she conceived is pure speculation. There is not one reliable source that can back up that claim. If all you have is "most Jews at that time married that young" then its pretty damned thin.

It's about as speculative as the information surrounding the age of Aishah. The word used to refer to Mary in the Bible is almah, which describes a girl near the beginning stages of puberty. As you surely know, the onset of puberty occurred significantly earlier then than it does now.

disregarding reliable sources, and citing unreliable sources to fit your beliefs.

This is precisely what you are doing.

 

[Kalam]

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them.

I'm sorry; I didn't realize that you were unfamiliar with the English language:

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof.)
​

I don't care about the actions of a 17th-century Moroccan monarch. If he did something contemptible, screw him. Whatever.

 

[THE LIGHT]

So you consider me a "moderate" muslim?

Most Muslims like to be considered "moderate" so I was being nice but what do you consider yourself?

There is no Islam "Lite"

Islam is what it is

That is what I think too.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them.

I'm sorry; I didn't realize that you were unfamiliar with the English language:

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof.)
​

I don't care about the actions of a 17th-century Moroccan monarch. If he did something contemptible, screw him. Whatever.

So do you condemn Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

 

[Kalam]

I didn't ask if you defend them I asked do you condemn them.

I'm sorry; I didn't realize that you were unfamiliar with the English language:

I don't condemn Muhammad (SAW) because he never committed rape or genocide (I've noticed your lack of a response to my request for proof.)
​

I don't care about the actions of a 17th-century Moroccan monarch. If he did something contemptible, screw him. Whatever.

So do you condemn Sultan Moulay Ismail and bin Laden and Arafat and Hamas and Hezbola?

I condemn those actions of theirs that have led to the death of innocents or violated the tenets of Islam in some other way.