Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
The payroll tax credit was so bad that 2 GOP senators want it repealed. It simply is a failure. Like the rest of his program.
Dontbestupid said:All that being said, anyone who claims the Recovery Act was a waste or was a failure is just lying. Two and a half million jobs is not a failure.
So you don't just disagree with us, you're accusing us of bad faith? Two and a half million jobs at $666 billion is a massive failure when the Republic faces a $14 trillion debt.
How can it be possible not to understand why we are in such dire straights. So whats the next trick of this administration?
Obama
The payroll tax credit was so bad that 2 GOP senators want it repealed. It simply is a failure. Like the rest of his program.
Wait. You and the GOP are now saying a tax credit is not the answer for increased job growth?
Hell has frozen over.
1. Nice to see the wingnuts conceding that the stimulus did in fact create or save almost 3 million jobs.
2. Keep in mind, the stimulus' cost included almost 300 billion in tax cuts.
Tax cuts, tax credits, tax incentives. There's certainly a difference, but there's a key similarity: they all add to the debt equally.
Here's wiki's rundown.
Tax incentives for individuals
Total: $237 billion
$116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[28]
$70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[28]
$15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
$14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
$6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[40]
$4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
$4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit which provides money to low income workers for families with at least three children.
$4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
$1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
Tax incentives for companies
Total: $51 billion
$15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
$13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
$11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
$7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
$5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009.
The $51 billion in tax incentives for companies were all terrible, as Rabbi suggests, but this was less than 20% of the full figure.
The wasteful homebuyer/home energy/car purchase incentives only total to $12.6 billion (CARS aka Cash for Clunkers wasn't part of the ARRA). Less than 5%.
So 40% of the $288 billion in tax incentive provisions was the $116 billion payroll tax credit. This is certainly wasteful. The credit is placed on the taxpayer side, so there's no encouragement for businesses to retain/hire employees. It would have been better to apply that $116 billion to food stamps or unemployment programs.
Dontbestupid said:All that being said, anyone who claims the Recovery Act was a waste or was a failure is just lying. Two and a half million jobs is not a failure.
So you don't just disagree with us, you're accusing us of bad faith? Two and a half million jobs at $666 billion is a massive failure when the Republic faces a $14 trillion debt.
How can it be possible not to understand why we are in such dire straights. So whats the next trick of this administration?
Obama
They were warned:
With all due respect Mr.President, that is not true.
How can it be possible not to understand why we are in such dire straights. So whats the next trick of this administration?
Obama
They were warned:
With all due respect Mr.President, that is not true.
Interesting choice of links, since they were wrong.
Interesting choice of links, since they were wrong.
No, they weren't.
In fact everything predicted was true.
The payroll tax credit was so bad that 2 GOP senators want it repealed. It simply is a failure. Like the rest of his program.
Wait. You and the GOP are now saying a tax credit is not the answer for increased job growth?
Hell has frozen over.
How can it be possible not to understand why we are in such dire straights. So whats the next trick of this administration?
Obama
They were warned:
With all due respect Mr.President, that is not true.
Interesting choice of links, since they were wrong.
Here we go again. Fun with numbers again. You guys seem to think the entire Recovery Act was money sent directly to people in the form of salaries. It wasn't, so dividing the jobs number by the total just gets you some generic jobs/$ spent number, which means pretty much nothing. Not to mention, this is over 2 years, and no one here is even talking about the annual amounts, which would at least be more useful.
Plus, as has already been stated, and was stated in the report, $292B of the Recover Act stimulus was in the form of tax cuts. As has been talked about for years now, tax cuts are a terrible way to stimulate the economy. This is just more proof of that. Had the entire Recovery Act been a jobs programs, the job numbers would have been much better.
All that being said, anyone who claims the Recovery Act was a waste or was a failure is just lying. Two and a half million jobs is not a failure. Getting the economy growing again is not a failure. The only problems with the Recovery Act was the tax cuts and its size. Too many tax cuts and not enough spending.
Interesting choice of links, since they were wrong.
he and harry are attempting to craft a Romulan cloak for stimulus called- Investments...krugmans calcs ante- stimulus said 630 billion or so would do, the Admins plan ala Romer? do we need to post that again? 8% unemployment...etc.
they cannot even QUANTIFY the jobs they say they created, the cbo has been saying anywhere between 1.4 and 3.3 million- so now they have settle don 2.4 , how friggin convenient, right smack dab in the middle of their 250% error estimate window....
The payroll tax credit was so bad that 2 GOP senators want it repealed. It simply is a failure. Like the rest of his program.
Wait. You and the GOP are now saying a tax credit is not the answer for increased job growth?
Hell has frozen over.
A tax credit is not a tax cut, its a deficit building program that usually is aimed at poor people who dont create jobs anyways.
Low and consistent taxes are key, or help with a stable economy. Youre a hack, you know it and I know it. No one on these boards that I have ever seen claim that neither tax credits nor tax cuts will fix the economy, just help it along. Youre just pissed because Obamas stimulus was an epic sized failure that is permanently recorded in our history.
Youre dishonest, lie and have cheated your way through debates sense you came to these boards.
I find it funny how some posts are avoided at all cost by most liberals.
Wait. You and the GOP are now saying a tax credit is not the answer for increased job growth?
Hell has frozen over.
A tax credit is not a tax cut, its a deficit building program that usually is aimed at poor people who dont create jobs anyways.
Low and consistent taxes are key, or help with a stable economy. Youre a hack, you know it and I know it. No one on these boards that I have ever seen claim that neither tax credits nor tax cuts will fix the economy, just help it along. Youre just pissed because Obamas stimulus was an epic sized failure that is permanently recorded in our history.
Youre dishonest, lie and have cheated your way through debates sense you came to these boards.
SINCE I came to these boards. Just fyi.
By the way, still waiting for you guys to prove how low taxes is the key here. And how Obama "failed" while creating 2.5 million jobs.
Here we go again. Fun with numbers again. You guys seem to think the entire Recovery Act was money sent directly to people in the form of salaries. It wasn't, so dividing the jobs number by the total just gets you some generic jobs/$ spent number, which means pretty much nothing. Not to mention, this is over 2 years, and no one here is even talking about the annual amounts, which would at least be more useful.
Plus, as has already been stated, and was stated in the report, $292B of the Recover Act stimulus was in the form of tax cuts. As has been talked about for years now, tax cuts are a terrible way to stimulate the economy. This is just more proof of that. Had the entire Recovery Act been a jobs programs, the job numbers would have been much better.
All that being said, anyone who claims the Recovery Act was a waste or was a failure is just lying. Two and a half million jobs is not a failure. Getting the economy growing again is not a failure. The only problems with the Recovery Act was the tax cuts and its size. Too many tax cuts and not enough spending.