Obama digs in against GOP

[rightwinger]

You're so full of shit......
Why wasn't he there NEGOTIATING with the GOP instead of playing golf? He has time for golf AFTER they take care of this. Just shows how much he doesn't care what happens....and you're going to blame the GOP for this?? God you people are stupid!

He offered his opening position and is now waiting for the GOP to offer theirs. That's how negotiating is done.

What do you think he ought to do? Just sit there at the table and wait for them? They've got his number when they're ready.

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

Lets see what the Republicans counter with...

Oh yes...I forgot....Republicans don't counter, that involves compromise

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Obama will save us!

 

[Claudette]

You're so full of shit......
Why wasn't he there NEGOTIATING with the GOP instead of playing golf? He has time for golf AFTER they take care of this. Just shows how much he doesn't care what happens....and you're going to blame the GOP for this?? God you people are stupid!

He offered his opening position and is now waiting for the GOP to offer theirs. That's how negotiating is done.

What do you think he ought to do? Just sit there at the table and wait for them? They've got his number when they're ready.

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

Bingo.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

He offered his opening position and is now waiting for the GOP to offer theirs. That's how negotiating is done.

What do you think he ought to do? Just sit there at the table and wait for them? They've got his number when they're ready.

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

No, he doesn't. He wants to make a deal, but he's giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves. Let's see if they're dumb enough to oblige.

And, by the way, you've incorrectly characterized the debt ceiling proposal. What it would do is let the President raise the debt ceiling and then let Congress agree to it or not. What that amounts to is a face-saving offer to the GOP. They can give him that, vote against it (knowing fully well it must be raised), then go back home and say they voted against raising the debt ceiling. As it stands right now, they CAN'T vote to raise it again because they've painted themselves into a corner on that too, but, on the other hand, they don't want to be blamed for shutting the government down again.

It's actually a pretty generous and ingenious suggestion. With that, the debt ceiling gets raised, preventing a shut down, and the GOP gets to hold to their public position for the benefit of their constituency.

So congress becomes ceremonial in debt ceiling "negotiations" and you're characterizing it as a face saving position for the GOP?

You guys will go to great length to rationalize even more consolidation of power/authority.

Awesome!

 

[mudwhistle]

Barack's got this, gnashing nutter.

I'm just here observing people like yourself's butthurt over it for my own amusement.

well as long as you have your Obama knee pads on while you're doing it

Knee pads, shoulder pads, chest protecter, helmet, and gloves.....you can't have enough protection on when wading into waters as polluted as usmb.

Why don't you leave then.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Buhbye.

 

[Oddball]

He offered his opening position and is now waiting for the GOP to offer theirs. That's how negotiating is done.

What do you think he ought to do? Just sit there at the table and wait for them? They've got his number when they're ready.

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

Lets see what the Republicans counter with...

Oh yes...I forgot....Republicans don't counter, that involves compromise

The sequester is already a compromise, hackopottamus....If that "compromise" thingy is so great, why is your boi trying to weasel out of it?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It's about time he stood up and forced the GOP to negotiate. During his first term, he offered them concession after concession, only to have it all thrown back in his face because their commitment was to defeating him in 2012, not doing what's best for the country.

The GOP lost in their bid to unseat him, so now they have to put up or shut up. If the country goes over the "fiscal cliff," it will be THEY who pushed us over and the American people know it.

Stand firm, Mr. President. Don't let them hold our nation hostage for partisan purposes again. You have all the cards and they're bluffing....if they have any sense at all....which sometimes seems doubtful.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/u...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121203&_r=0

 

[Oddball]

He offered his opening position and is now waiting for the GOP to offer theirs. That's how negotiating is done.

What do you think he ought to do? Just sit there at the table and wait for them? They've got his number when they're ready.

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

No, he doesn't. He wants to make a deal, but he's giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves. Let's see if they're dumb enough to oblige.

And, by the way, you've incorrectly characterized the debt ceiling proposal. What it would do is let the President raise the debt ceiling and then let Congress agree to it or not. What that amounts to is a face-saving offer to the GOP. They can give him that, vote against it (knowing fully well it must be raised), then go back home and say they voted against raising the debt ceiling. As it stands right now, they CAN'T vote to raise it again because they've painted themselves into a corner on that too, but, on the other hand, they don't want to be blamed for shutting the government down again.

It's actually a pretty generous and ingenious suggestion. With that, the debt ceiling gets raised, preventing a shut down, and the GOP gets to hold to their public position for the benefit of their constituency.

Oh, so he can rule by decree and challenge congress to stop him.

Goddamn, are you a rube.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

They just love Dictator Obama. They just don't want to call him Dictator. It's the most ridiculous position in American politics since FDR. Obama knows best for everyone, so don't mis-characterize his proposal to make congress ceremonial on debt ceiling negotiations. Because they can still say "no". and then go home and tell their constituency they said no. Yet nothing happened.

It's a clearly remarkable position the Obama lovers hold.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Fascists like Obama require scapegoats, he's got the GOP and "the rich"

 

[mudwhistle]

Its funny dems talk about anti obama peoples butthurt or whatever. We are all fucked guys. Not just the sane contributors to society

That's the irony of it.

No use arguing because Obama needs these little crisis to crop up every once in awhile to provide cover for whatever the hell his group is working behind the scenes.

One of the libs here pointed out pay as you go legislation being passed without GOP support in 2010. After reading it I found that sequestration came from this stagitory PAYGO law. Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PAYGO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[saveliberty]

It's about time he stood up and forced the GOP to negotiate. During his first term, he offered them concession after concession, only to have it all thrown back in his face because their commitment was to defeating him in 2012, not doing what's best for the country.

The GOP lost in their bid to unseat him, so now they have to put up or shut up. If the country goes over the "fiscal cliff," it will be THEY who pushed us over and the American people know it.

Stand firm, Mr. President. Don't let them hold our nation hostage for partisan purposes again. You have all the cards and they're bluffing....if they have any sense at all....which sometimes seems doubtful.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/u...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20121203&_r=0

First off, Obama said he was going to compromise, now its "forced negoiation"? See that it was he did for his entire first term. No surprise there.

What is best for the country is government budget cuts from an actual budget. Obama has no intention of either. In fact, he is asking for a limitless debt ceiling. No way can you justify that one as a responsible course.

As for the fiscal cliff, its an agreed upon way to raise taxes and cut spending. Both parties agreed to it. What is your beef with getting the job done and paying your fair share?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

They thought they were voicing consent to raise someone elses taxes and someone elses ass to feel the cuts pinch. That's what this whole "fiscal cliff" is about. It's about children who thought when they raised their hand, that it wouldn't be them who was paying the lunch lady for the other kids.

 

[Oldguy]

He offered a position -which includes a complete removal of any debt ceiling and refusal to address spending- that he knows that republicans will never accept.

He wants the sequester to kick in.

No, he doesn't. He wants to make a deal, but he's giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves. Let's see if they're dumb enough to oblige.

And, by the way, you've incorrectly characterized the debt ceiling proposal. What it would do is let the President raise the debt ceiling and then let Congress agree to it or not. What that amounts to is a face-saving offer to the GOP. They can give him that, vote against it (knowing fully well it must be raised), then go back home and say they voted against raising the debt ceiling. As it stands right now, they CAN'T vote to raise it again because they've painted themselves into a corner on that too, but, on the other hand, they don't want to be blamed for shutting the government down again.

It's actually a pretty generous and ingenious suggestion. With that, the debt ceiling gets raised, preventing a shut down, and the GOP gets to hold to their public position for the benefit of their constituency.

So congress becomes ceremonial in debt ceiling "negotiations" and you're characterizing it as a face saving position for the GOP?

You guys will go to great length to rationalize even more consolidation of power/authority.

Awesome!

No, it's not just ceremonial. Congress would still have the power to pass it or reject it. That's their Constitutional prerogative and nobody is suggesting taking that away from them. The process would work very much like the War Powers Act.

 

[Zoom-boing]

How much in entitlement spending cuts is Obama offering in exchange for tax hikes only on the rich?

(Obama says everyone must pay their fair share then insists on only hiking taxes for one group. Irony, the opposite of wrinkly).

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No, he doesn't. He wants to make a deal, but he's giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves. Let's see if they're dumb enough to oblige.

And, by the way, you've incorrectly characterized the debt ceiling proposal. What it would do is let the President raise the debt ceiling and then let Congress agree to it or not. What that amounts to is a face-saving offer to the GOP. They can give him that, vote against it (knowing fully well it must be raised), then go back home and say they voted against raising the debt ceiling. As it stands right now, they CAN'T vote to raise it again because they've painted themselves into a corner on that too, but, on the other hand, they don't want to be blamed for shutting the government down again.

It's actually a pretty generous and ingenious suggestion. With that, the debt ceiling gets raised, preventing a shut down, and the GOP gets to hold to their public position for the benefit of their constituency.

So congress becomes ceremonial in debt ceiling "negotiations" and you're characterizing it as a face saving position for the GOP?

You guys will go to great length to rationalize even more consolidation of power/authority.

Awesome!

No, it's not just ceremonial. Congress would still have the power to pass it or reject it. That's their Constitutional prerogative and nobody is suggesting taking that away from them. The process would work very much like the War Powers Act.

Yeah, the WPA is always adhered to.

In other words, the president can raise the ceiling without negotiations in congress, and then they can come back (think Libya, for the lastest example of the WPA in action, or is it inaction?) and say "no!" and then nothing happens. Except a raise in the ceiling.

 

[Oldguy]

First off, Obama said he was going to compromise, now its "forced negation"?

Forcing the other side to reveal their hand is a long accepted and useful tool in negotiations. You know that.

See that it was he did for his entire first term. No surprise there.

No, he didn't. He made offer after offer to the GOP and they either rejected them or moved the goal posts. Note what happened during the "Grand Bargain" negotiations with Boehner.

What is best for the country is government budget cuts from an actual budget.

Yes, but when the Senate sends a budget resolution to the House, they table it and write their own instead. Then, it goes to the Senate where THEY table it and wait for the House to act upon theirs. This is has been going on so long that we haven't had an actual budget passed since 1997. During that time, BOTH parties have played the game, so don't just blame Obama.

Obama has no intention of either.

How do you know what his intentions are?

In fact, he is asking for a limitless debt ceiling. No way can you justify that one as a responsible course.

I did in posts above.

As for the fiscal cliff, its an agreed upon way to raise taxes and cut spending. Both parties agreed to it. What is your beef with getting the job done and paying your fair share?

I don't have a beef with that at all. I'm convinced the solution to our economic problems is as combination of both spending and raising more revenue.

If you agree, then tell your GOP representatives to get off their dead asses and negotiate and quit playing "gotcha" with the nation's future. The President's offer is on the table. Where's theirs?

 

[Oldguy]

How much in entitlement spending cuts is Obama offering in exchange for tax hikes only on the rich?

(Obama says everyone must pay their fair share then insists on only hiking taxes for one group. Irony, the opposite of wrinkly).

None, yet. He's waiting for the GOP to say how much revenue they'll agree to raise and how. Since he's the President, and just won re-election, he's in the drivers seat and the GOP must either play, or pay.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

How much in entitlement spending cuts is Obama offering in exchange for tax hikes only on the rich?

(Obama says everyone must pay their fair share then insists on only hiking taxes for one group. Irony, the opposite of wrinkly).

None, yet. He's waiting for the GOP to say how much revenue they'll agree to raise and how. Since he's the President, and just won re-election, he's in the drivers seat and the GOP must either play, or pay.

I'll bet you really enjoyed writing that.

 

[Oldguy]

Except a raise in the ceiling.

It's gonna be raised anyhow and apparently everybody but you knows it. All the President is offering is a way for the GOP to allow it to be raised without appearing that they've done so.

Given how they've stonewalled him at every turn for the past 2 years, that's a pretty damn good offer, if you ask me. He COULD just shove them deeper into the mess they've created for themselves.