Obama digs in against GOP

[Oldguy]

How much in entitlement spending cuts is Obama offering in exchange for tax hikes only on the rich?

(Obama says everyone must pay their fair share then insists on only hiking taxes for one group. Irony, the opposite of wrinkly).

None, yet. He's waiting for the GOP to say how much revenue they'll agree to raise and how. Since he's the President, and just won re-election, he's in the drivers seat and the GOP must either play, or pay.

I'll bet you really enjoyed writing that.

Nope. I'm just stating the facts. I know facts are anathema to the right, but they're still useful.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm confused. Things are in the shitter and both tax hikes and big spending cuts seem to be what's needed in order to try and get things out of the shitter. The 'fiscal cliff' is exactly what is needed. So why all this 'negotiating'? Why bother? The plan was put in place so why not let the plan proceed?

 

[mudwhistle]

No, he doesn't. He wants to make a deal, but he's giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves. Let's see if they're dumb enough to oblige.

And, by the way, you've incorrectly characterized the debt ceiling proposal. What it would do is let the President raise the debt ceiling and then let Congress agree to it or not. What that amounts to is a face-saving offer to the GOP. They can give him that, vote against it (knowing fully well it must be raised), then go back home and say they voted against raising the debt ceiling. As it stands right now, they CAN'T vote to raise it again because they've painted themselves into a corner on that too, but, on the other hand, they don't want to be blamed for shutting the government down again.

It's actually a pretty generous and ingenious suggestion. With that, the debt ceiling gets raised, preventing a shut down, and the GOP gets to hold to their public position for the benefit of their constituency.

So congress becomes ceremonial in debt ceiling "negotiations" and you're characterizing it as a face saving position for the GOP?

You guys will go to great length to rationalize even more consolidation of power/authority.

Awesome!

No, it's not just ceremonial. Congress would still have the power to pass it or reject it. That's their Constitutional prerogative and nobody is suggesting taking that away from them. The process would work very much like the War Powers Act.

And for another fairytale; The Muslim Brotherhood has no chance of taking any power in Egypt, so why not support the Arab Spring.

 

[TNHarley]

It's Bushs fault obama cant up with some compromising ideas!

 

[Oddball]

None, yet. He's waiting for the GOP to say how much revenue they'll agree to raise and how. Since he's the President, and just won re-election, he's in the drivers seat and the GOP must either play, or pay.

I'll bet you really enjoyed writing that.

Nope. I'm just stating the facts. I know facts are anathema to the right, but they're still useful.

You're stating facts and refusing to face the implications of them because he it's your boi trying to get the dictatorial powers.

I'd bet the farm that lolberals like you would be shitting yourselves if a prez with an (R) by his name had floated this stupid idea.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm confused. Things are in the shitter and both tax hikes and big spending cuts seem to be what's needed in order to try and get things out of the shitter. The 'fiscal cliff' is exactly what is needed. So why all this 'negotiating'? Why bother? The plan was put in place so why not let the plan proceed?

I don't think you know what the real plan is.

Nobody does except Obama.

 

[Zoom-boing]

None, yet. He's waiting for the GOP to say how much revenue they'll agree to raise and how. Since he's the President, and just won re-election, he's in the drivers seat and the GOP must either play, or pay.

There's the rub.

The GOP should give Obama what he wants ... tax hikes on the rich and "we'll talk about spending cuts down the road".

 

[Oddball]

I'm confused. Things are in the shitter and both tax hikes and big spending cuts seem to be what's needed in order to try and get things out of the shitter. The 'fiscal cliff' is exactly what is needed. So why all this 'negotiating'? Why bother? The plan was put in place so why not let the plan proceed?

Because Boiking wants to weasel out of the spending cuts to his sacred socialistic welfare state...The republicans are no better, wanting to save their holy Pentagon spending.

But Obiedoodle knows that he can get the press to carry his water on the whole spooky "fiscal cliff", which both sides agreed to (y'know, that compromise thing that your read about?), so he's made a cynical offer to repubs to head off the sequester...He gets everything he wants (a removal of the debt ceiling, no cuts to the welfare state and tax increases), in exchange he won't sic his slavish media mutts on them.

This is what's known as "compromise" to liberoidals.

 

[mudwhistle]

Except a raise in the ceiling.

It's gonna be raised anyhow and apparently everybody but you knows it. All the President is offering is a way for the GOP to allow it to be raised without appearing that they've done so.

Given how they've stonewalled him at every turn for the past 2 years, that's a pretty damn good offer, if you ask me. He COULD just shove them deeper into the mess they've created for themselves.

Obama has proved he can't work with Republicans so why bother even talking with him. He's just gonna do what progressives want and gut defense while he's raising taxes. 4 years of this didn't teach you anything. Guess enough people like being screwed by Obama to want 4 more years of it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Right. It seems the "fiscal cliff" was the negotiation and compromise. It also goes leaps further than either side of this circus really wants to see happen. Especially those who scream for more tax revenue, as long as it isn't their income being further taxed.

The fiscal cliff is exactly what we should do. This whole smoke and mirrors of a negotiation to compromise to not go over the cliff is just fearmongering. These are the people you voted for. This is the nation you want, so this is what you get. Quit bitching, I say and let the tax hikes and cuts begin.

 

[P@triot]

It's about time he stood up and forced the GOP to negotiate. During his first term, he offered them concession after concession, only to have it all thrown back in his face because their commitment was to defeating him in 2012, not doing what's best for the country.

The GOP lost in their bid to unseat him, so now they have to put up or shut up. If the country goes over the "fiscal cliff," it will be THEY who pushed us over and the American people know it.

Stand firm, Mr. President. Don't let them hold our nation hostage for partisan purposes again. You have all the cards and they're bluffing....if they have any sense at all....which sometimes seems doubtful.


Criticized as Weak in Past Talks, Obama Takes Harder Line - NYTimes.com

You're an idiot who fantasizes about having Obama's cock buried in the back of your throat. Obama did not give one single fucking "consession" during his first term!!! NOT ONE!

Barack Obama: 'We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

Yeah, that really sounds like a man looking to compromise. You can come for a ride, but you have to let ME drive, and you can't even sit in the front seat. If you can climb in the back, sit down, and shut up, I'll let you come along for the ride.

God almighty are you fucking a moron OldGuy. Maybe it's time for the rest home...

Obama Tells Republicans to 'Sit in Back' | Fox News

 

[Oddball]

Except a raise in the ceiling.

It's gonna be raised anyhow and apparently everybody but you knows it. All the President is offering is a way for the GOP to allow it to be raised without appearing that they've done so.

Given how they've stonewalled him at every turn for the past 2 years, that's a pretty damn good offer, if you ask me. He COULD just shove them deeper into the mess they've created for themselves.

Obama has proved he can't work with Republicans so why bother even talking with him. He's just gonna do what progressives want and gut defense while he's raising taxes. 4 years of this didn't teach you anything. Guess enough people like being screwed by Obama to want 4 more years of it.

Exactly why he sent Timmy Turbo Tax to present his demands to Boehner, while he went to Chicago to hold a campaign rally/media circus.

Even the everyday mundanities of political horse trading are beyond his pay grade, or beneath him....Or, more likely, both.

 

[Oldguy]

Y'all act like you've never bought a car before.

When you do buy one, do you walk into the dealership and say, "I'll give you this much for that car," without first looking at the sticker and getting their first offer?

I hope not. If that's the way you buy a car, you might as well wear a giant neon sign on your head that says, "Screw me, please."

Well...budget negotiations are conducted the same way. The President has walked into the Congressional dealership and offered a figure he knows lowballs the price he's willing to pay. Now, he's just waiting for them to come up with THEIR first offer.

This is a process, folks, not the End of The World.

Of course, if the GOP holds out for their sticker price and once again refuses to deal, they'll suffer the consequences when the it all collapses.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It may be the NYT times again, but Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman gets it, even if y'all don't.


"...While there has been a lot of bluster from the G.O.P. about how we should reduce the deficit with spending cuts, not tax increases, no leading figures on the Republican side have been able or willing to specify what, exactly, they want to cut.

And there’s a reason for this reticence. The fact is that Republican posturing on the deficit has always been a con game, a play on the innumeracy of voters and reporters…

….So while the fiscal cliff — still a bad name for the looming austerity bomb, but I guess we’re stuck with it — is a bad thing from an economic point of view, it has had at least one salutary political effect. For it has finally laid bare the con that has always been at the core of the G.O.P.’s political strategy…"

The Big Budget Mumble - NYTimes.com


If the GOP continues their intransigence and pushes us over the cliff, the heat from that will cook their goose and they know it. On the other hand, giving in one iota from their position will cook it too, with the base.

They've painted themselves into a corner with the rhetorical con they've been playing for years and now it's time to pay the piper.

My prediction: They'll finally come to the table with something, and Obama will give them a face-saving way out for the good of the country. In the end, Obama gets most of what he wants and the nutters here will go ballistic.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm buying more popcorn cuz the nutters will be screeching and whining, sky is falling, poor widdow victims. Its gonna be good. And, the next four years - What fun.

BUT, we need to pace ourselves. The pubs will hold out until the very last moment while Boehner swills scotch and plays golf in between photo ops and appearances on fux to whine and lie, sky is falling, victims, yadda yadda.

To the pubs, this is just a game. No matter what the outcome, their owners, the 1-2%, won't lose anything while the working class, the elderly, children all stand to lose quite a lot.

 

[Oldguy]

Right. It seems the "fiscal cliff" was the negotiation and compromise. It also goes leaps further than either side of this circus really wants to see happen. Especially those who scream for more tax revenue, as long as it isn't their income being further taxed.

The fiscal cliff is exactly what we should do. This whole smoke and mirrors of a negotiation to compromise to not go over the cliff is just fearmongering. These are the people you voted for. This is the nation you want, so this is what you get. Quit bitching, I say and let the tax hikes and cuts begin.

No, the "fiscal cliff," or more correctly, "sequestration" was a punt by both sides in an election year.

Now it's time to field the ball.

 

[Oddball]

Y'all act like you've never bought a car before.

When you do buy one, do you walk into the dealership and say, "I'll give you this much for that car," without first looking at the sticker and getting their first offer?

I hope not. If that's the way you buy a car, you might as well wear a giant neon sign on your head that says, "Screw me, please."

Well...budget negotiations are conducted the same way. The President has walked into the Congressional dealership and offered a figure he knows lowballs the price he's willing to pay. Now, he's just waiting for them to come up with THEIR first offer.

This is a process, folks, not the End of The World.

Of course, if the GOP holds out for their sticker price and once again refuses to deal, they'll suffer the consequences when the it all collapses.

You don't get to renegotiate a price after you already bough the car, idjit.

 

[Oldguy]

It's about time he stood up and forced the GOP to negotiate. During his first term, he offered them concession after concession, only to have it all thrown back in his face because their commitment was to defeating him in 2012, not doing what's best for the country.

The GOP lost in their bid to unseat him, so now they have to put up or shut up. If the country goes over the "fiscal cliff," it will be THEY who pushed us over and the American people know it.

Stand firm, Mr. President. Don't let them hold our nation hostage for partisan purposes again. You have all the cards and they're bluffing....if they have any sense at all....which sometimes seems doubtful.


Criticized as Weak in Past Talks, Obama Takes Harder Line - NYTimes.com

You're an idiot who fantasizes about having Obama's cock buried in the back of your throat. Obama did not give one single fucking "consession" during his first term!!! NOT ONE!

Barack Obama: 'We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

Yeah, that really sounds like a man looking to compromise. You can come for a ride, but you have to let ME drive, and you can't even sit in the front seat. If you can climb in the back, sit down, and shut up, I'll let you come along for the ride.

God almighty are you fucking a moron OldGuy. Maybe it's time for the rest home...

Obama Tells Republicans to 'Sit in Back' | Fox News

Gee. You add SOOOOO much to a conversation.

 

[Oddball]

Right. It seems the "fiscal cliff" was the negotiation and compromise. It also goes leaps further than either side of this circus really wants to see happen. Especially those who scream for more tax revenue, as long as it isn't their income being further taxed.

The fiscal cliff is exactly what we should do. This whole smoke and mirrors of a negotiation to compromise to not go over the cliff is just fearmongering. These are the people you voted for. This is the nation you want, so this is what you get. Quit bitching, I say and let the tax hikes and cuts begin.

No, the "fiscal cliff," or more correctly, "sequestration" was a punt by both sides in an election year.

Now it's time to field the ball.

Tough shit....It's the deal in the here and now.

If you're too much of a gutless punk to make tough choices in an election year, then you can just STFU and eat the consequences of your cowardice.

 

[mudwhistle]

Y'all act like you've never bought a car before.

When you do buy one, do you walk into the dealership and say, "I'll give you this much for that car," without first looking at the sticker and getting their first offer?

I hope not. If that's the way you buy a car, you might as well wear a giant neon sign on your head that says, "Screw me, please."

Well...budget negotiations are conducted the same way. The President has walked into the Congressional dealership and offered a figure he knows lowballs the price he's willing to pay. Now, he's just waiting for them to come up with THEIR first offer.

This is a process, folks, not the End of The World.

Of course, if the GOP holds out for their sticker price and once again refuses to deal, they'll suffer the consequences when the it all collapses.

I love the way you keep repeating only the Repugs will suffer......

If that's really the case then Obama has no incentive to make a deal, and FYI smart guy, he won't.

 

[Oldguy]

Y'all act like you've never bought a car before.

When you do buy one, do you walk into the dealership and say, "I'll give you this much for that car," without first looking at the sticker and getting their first offer?

I hope not. If that's the way you buy a car, you might as well wear a giant neon sign on your head that says, "Screw me, please."

Well...budget negotiations are conducted the same way. The President has walked into the Congressional dealership and offered a figure he knows lowballs the price he's willing to pay. Now, he's just waiting for them to come up with THEIR first offer.

This is a process, folks, not the End of The World.

Of course, if the GOP holds out for their sticker price and once again refuses to deal, they'll suffer the consequences when the it all collapses.

You don't get to renegotiate a price after you already bough the car, idjit.

Nobody's bought the car yet. We've just been driving the sequestration loaner.