Obama & Atlas Shrugged

[CMike]

Another similarity from the book to the Obama regime.

The group that got a special exemption from the government taking over people's lives was the union guy.

The union guy was a very practical person. He even said he realized that his workers are going to be slaves to the government, but he will get kudos for throwing them a few crumbs.

I feel that most of the detractors of the book, have never read the book. There only knowledge about it comes from anti- Ayn Rand web sites. Therefore, they have no clue.

It really is a great book, and is very prophetic. It's definetly a similar road that Obama is leading America.

 

[CMike]

Jillian you must have missed my question.

1) What business did Francisco have?

2) Who is John Galt?

Since you questioned whether I read the book, I am questioning whether you read it.

 

[Big Fitz]

In "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, the government has decided to take from the achievers, the people who have and demonstrated the ability to achieve and make things happen.

They are being looted by those who don't have that the abiliy as these achievers.

The looters' (i.e. those that get the government influence) ability is to make laws to take from these people.

Society has changed from a society based on production and profit to a society based on pull and getting favors from people who are good at making profit. As a result of these various laws to benefit these select few, the economy goes into turmoil)

How much do you think Obama is changing America to become like this type of society in Atlas Shrugged?

You're too late and a little off with your analysis.

Obama's not Shrugging. Currently nobody is... yet. But it's close.

The Atlas that shrugged were the titans of industry and those who COULD do and DID do providing the world with the energy and drive to move. The engine of the world is the metaphor she likes to use. We really could USE the titans of industry to shrug and say, NO. Just think if the Insurance companies shrugged and got out of health insurance and offered only Other forms of insurance. It would destroy the nationalized health care plan in days. It would advance the need for it to it's breaking point before it even started.

The looters are the parasites who have given in to the entitlement mentality. Obama's not the originator of this, he is just the most advanced version of this disease that started when Wilson planted the seed, it was germinated and grown under FDR, and then went industrial under LBJ, gaining strength till we are at the situation that we find ourselves now.

The slavery of the capable by the desire of the 'needy' is in full swing and is finally overwhelming the system, just as Cloward and Piven desired.

BUT... all the pieces are not in place yet. The populace is still armed and is growing more and more aware. This is why the P-BO administration and radicals in charge of congress are pushing so hard. They are only a whisker's bredth away from accomplishing their youthful desires that burned in their mind during the 1960's. They don't even realize that their desires equal the death of a nation if not plummetting us back into a new dark age.

Just like society with John Galt removed, and pulling out other leaders of industry, preventing 'charity' from the barrels of foreign governments guns stolen from their peoples, and collapsing all the 'safe havens' for their ill gotten wealth... a dark age awaits. The sad part is, we have no John Galt out there in reality. When the engine of THIS world stops, we may be a few centuries in getting it restarted. We have no 'hidden repository' of preserved wealth snuck away by Galt and his associates.

To cross pollinate, the Ellsworth Tooheys (The Fountainhead) of the world are preaching their ideals to all who would hear, self sacrifice for others while killing the self. At the same time the James Taggarts and Dr. Floyd Ferris' are saying enslave those who achieve. This is a recipe for destruction of any civilization. The good news is that their success equals their demise as it wakes up those it afflicts nearly instantly. It cannot last for it's host is dead. They exist only as parasites and cannot subsist with an Atlas to support them. With no Atlas, they quickly consume themselves and poison the ground for their kind for generations.

That is almost our only hopes left.

 

[CMike]

Interesting analysis.

 

[jillian]

yeah... but butt backward.

in Atlas Shrugged, the titans of industry told "the people" to take a hikebecause they were tired of carrying them. it wasn't "the people" who shrugged off the titans. the titans shrugged off the GOVERNMENT (e.g, the people).

randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

perfect for any dickensian nightmare.

if you believe in a philosophy, you should at least know what it says.

try the cliff notes:

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA...he-Novel-A-Brief-Synopsis.id-7,pageNum-7.html

 

[CMike]

yeah... but butt backward.

in Atlas Shrugged, the titans of industry told "the people" to take a hikebecause they were tired of carrying them. it wasn't "the people" who shrugged off the titans.

randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

perfect for any dickensian nightmare.

if you believe in a philosophy, you should at least know what it says.

Jillian you have absolutely no idea what this book is about.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

y
randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

Bingo.

And to answer the OP: No more than the GOP has. The GOP is still sold out the special interest groups like the Christian Right and Big Finance that will squash any up and coming "Titan" if it gets in their way.

 

[jillian]

yeah... but butt backward.

in Atlas Shrugged, the titans of industry told "the people" to take a hikebecause they were tired of carrying them. it wasn't "the people" who shrugged off the titans.

randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

perfect for any dickensian nightmare.

if you believe in a philosophy, you should at least know what it says.

Jillian you have absolutely no idea what this book is about.

you can't even follow a direct statement from rushbo. lol..

now go read the cliff notes i linked for you. maybe you'll get it, maybe you won't.

cheers.

 

[CMike]

Here is a free clue for you.

You have not even the smallest iota of an idea what this book is about. I don't believe that you read the book. The fact that you either can't or won't answer the two questions that I asked confirms that.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3a6FxVHdQE[/ame]

 

[Big Fitz]

randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

Obviously you skipped huge sections of that book. It railed against the 'needy slavemasters' who got hooked into any 'titan' regardless of size. Children on parents were just as much the same relationship as James Taggart and his ilk onto the likes of Rearden and Cort.

The ideal is for a person to live for themselves, taking care of those they care about by choice, not by dint of force from others who did not deserve it but assumed you owed them it.

try the cliff notes:

Did you even READ the cliff note page you pointed to? Here's the key paragraph.:

The government, he says, has the power to seize his metal by force, and they have the power to compel him at the point of a gun. But he won't cooperate with their demands, and he won't pretend that the process is civil. If the government wishes to deal with men by compulsion, it must do so openly.

And further:

Rearden says that the government will have to seize his money and products by force, just like the robber it is. At this point, the crowd bursts into applause. The judges recognize the truth of what Rearden says and refuse to stand before the American people as open thieves. In the end, they fine Rearden and suspend the sentence.

This is a damning excoriation of the looting government, looking to steal by dint of cooperation from those who rightfully own a product. Rearden is the 'everyman hero' in the story. Every man and woman should strive to become Rearden, fearless to defend what he himself has made, for what he has made is good. He refuses to be complicit in their evil, even if they can, he will force them to do their dirty deed in front of naked public opinion and not pretend that they are anything but the lowdown dirty thieves the must prevent the populace from seeing is true.

Read the damn book. It may snap you out of your looter parasitic delusions. Hell, just read the cliff notes then!

 

[CMike]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Part of the books talks about what happened to 20th century motors. Some hobo talks to Dagny about his experiences with the company.

The motor company had about six thousand employees and was doing quite well. They then had owners, who said people will get paid according to their needs.

What happened is that people with ability were given overtime for no more pay. After all, pay was based on needs. Therefore, displaying ability was considered pretty stupid because you would just get more work.

Also, people slowed down work tremendously and become very inefficient. If the management perceived that they were any good they would get more work.

It didn't matter how good a person was or how hard he worked, the pay would be based according to need.

Who determined need? One cranky woman. Then all six thousand employees had a meeting and approved it.

So people got very jealous and envious for people who got sick, married, or had children, because their need was now considered greater than other workers. In fact, people tried to break up marriages so their "need' would be less.

When they first proposed this great social experiment of "love" in a meeting, when person walked out defying the rules, that you can't quit. He was a brilliant, young, engineering, who would revolutionize the motor. His name was John Galt.

The owner of the company who insituted this policy became high up in D.C. He was one of the looters.

 

[CMike]

randian philosophy says if you aren't a titan, you aren't worth anything.

Obviously you skipped huge sections of that book. It railed against the 'needy slavemasters' who got hooked into any 'titan' regardless of size. Children on parents were just as much the same relationship as James Taggart and his ilk onto the likes of Rearden and Cort.

The ideal is for a person to live for themselves, taking care of those they care about by choice, not by dint of force from others who did not deserve it but assumed you owed them it.

try the cliff notes:

Did you even READ the cliff note page you pointed to? Here's the key paragraph.:

The government, he says, has the power to seize his metal by force, and they have the power to compel him at the point of a gun. But he won't cooperate with their demands, and he won't pretend that the process is civil. If the government wishes to deal with men by compulsion, it must do so openly.

And further:

Rearden says that the government will have to seize his money and products by force, just like the robber it is. At this point, the crowd bursts into applause. The judges recognize the truth of what Rearden says and refuse to stand before the American people as open thieves. In the end, they fine Rearden and suspend the sentence.

This is a damning excoriation of the looting government, looking to steal by dint of cooperation from those who rightfully own a product. Rearden is the 'everyman hero' in the story. Every man and woman should strive to become Rearden, fearless to defend what he himself has made, for what he has made is good. He refuses to be complicit in their evil, even if they can, he will force them to do their dirty deed in front of naked public opinion and not pretend that they are anything but the lowdown dirty thieves the must prevent the populace from seeing is true.

Read the damn book. It may snap you out of your looter parasitic delusions. Hell, just read the cliff notes then!

I love the trial scene.

Rearden is unapologetic for who he is. His goal is to make profit. In doing so, he says, he has helped a lot of people, more than any of the looters have done, but that is not the reason for what he does.

I recall that the government says shouldn't the public be able to limit you in the amount of profit that you make? And he says that they can, all they have to do is don't buy my metal.

Rearden is one of the heroes of the book. D.C. makes laws upon laws seeking to loot these people with ability and success. They do so, because they either can't achieve it for themselves, or aren't willing to.

They go on a PR campaign trying to make these business people appear as greedy for wanting to make profit as the excuse to loot him.

The problem is that the government needs these people to produce. Without them the economic system collapses.

This is something that Obama doesn't understand.

 

[CMike]

From your cliff notes. I guess I could have saved some typing.


"On the train ride west, Dagny rescues a hobo who is riding the rails. He used to work for the Twentieth Century Motor Company. He tells her that the company put into practice the communist slogan, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," a scheme that resulted in enslaving the able to the unable. The first man to quit was a young engineer, who walked out of a mass meeting saying that he would put an end to this once and for all by "stopping the motor of the world." The bum tells her that as the years passed and they saw factories close, production drop, and great minds retire and disappear, they began to wonder if the young engineer, whose name was John Galt, succeeded.
"

 

[CMike]

Also from your cliff notes

When she returns, Dagny finds that the government has nationalized the railroad industry and controls it under a Railroad Unification Plan. Dagny can no longer make business decisions based on matters of production and profit; she is subject to the arbitrary whims of the dictators. The government wants Dagny to make a reassuring speech to the public on the radio and threatens her with the revelation of her affair with Rearden. On the air, Dagny proudly states that she was Rearden's lover and that he signed his metal over to the government only because of a blackmail threat. Before being cut off the air, Dagny succeeds in warning the American people about the ruthless dictatorship that the United States government is becoming.

Because of the government's socialist policies, the collapse of the U. S. economy is imminent. Francisco d'Anconia destroys his holdings and disappears because his properties worldwide are about to be nationalized. He leaves the "looters" — the parasites who feed off the producers — nothing, wiping out millions of dollars belonging to corrupt American investors like James Taggart. Meanwhile, politicians use their economic power to create their own personal empires. In one such scheme, the Taggart freight cars needed to haul the Minnesota wheat harvest to market are diverted to a project run by the relatives of powerful politicians. The wheat rots at the Taggart stations, the farmers riot, farms shut down (as do many of the companies providing them with equipment), people lose their jobs, and severe food shortages result.

 

[sitarro]

Read "Anthem" by her instead. It makes the same point, in about 900 less pages.

Atlas Shrugged is one of the most overrated books I've ever read - and not because of it's politics - I know where I stand with Ayn Rand. It's just a poorly written 1000 page monstrosity that's thesis can be summed up in one sentence.

Atlast Shrugged is one of my favorite books. But I wouldn't want to live in a Randian nightmare world.

As a political philosopher, she was a good novelist.

Well, personal taste is personal taste. I had a hard time getting through Atlas Shrugged - She uses too many words to say too little. I had a better time getting through Anthem. In terms of her politics - she admitted that her politics were entirely utopian ideals, with no basis to exist in our society - and, like you said, I have no desire to live in a Randian nightmare world either.

Not quite the same as an Archie comic is it? Short attention span problem?

 

[CMike]

Atlast Shrugged is one of my favorite books. But I wouldn't want to live in a Randian nightmare world.

As a political philosopher, she was a good novelist.

Well, personal taste is personal taste. I had a hard time getting through Atlas Shrugged - She uses too many words to say too little. I had a better time getting through Anthem. In terms of her politics - she admitted that her politics were entirely utopian ideals, with no basis to exist in our society - and, like you said, I have no desire to live in a Randian nightmare world either.

Not quite the same as an Archie comic is it? Short attention span problem?

 

[Big Fitz]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Part of the books talks about what happened to 20th century motors. Some hobo talks to Dagny about his experiences with the company.

The motor company had about six thousand employees and was doing quite well. They then had owners, who said people will get paid according to their needs.

What happened is that people with ability were given overtime for no more pay. After all, pay was based on needs. Therefore, displaying ability was considered pretty stupid because you would just get more work.

Also, people slowed down work tremendously and become very inefficient. If the management perceived that they were any good they would get more work.

It didn't matter how good a person was or how hard he worked, the pay would be based according to need.

Who determined need? One cranky woman. Then all six thousand employees had a meeting and approved it.

So people got very jealous and envious for people who got sick, married, or had children, because their need was now considered greater than other workers. In fact, people tried to break up marriages so their "need' would be less.

When they first proposed this great social experiment of "love" in a meeting, when person walked out defying the rules, that you can't quit. He was a brilliant, young, engineering, who would revolutionize the motor. His name was John Galt.

The owner of the company who insituted this policy became high up in D.C. He was one of the looters.

That scene was devestating. Extremely well done.

 

[Big Fitz]

But I wouldn't want to live in a Randian nightmare world.

Me either. The Randian Nightmare is a world run by socialists and will result in the next dark age.

 

[CMike]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Part of the books talks about what happened to 20th century motors. Some hobo talks to Dagny about his experiences with the company.

The motor company had about six thousand employees and was doing quite well. They then had owners, who said people will get paid according to their needs.

What happened is that people with ability were given overtime for no more pay. After all, pay was based on needs. Therefore, displaying ability was considered pretty stupid because you would just get more work.

Also, people slowed down work tremendously and become very inefficient. If the management perceived that they were any good they would get more work.

It didn't matter how good a person was or how hard he worked, the pay would be based according to need.

Who determined need? One cranky woman. Then all six thousand employees had a meeting and approved it.

So people got very jealous and envious for people who got sick, married, or had children, because their need was now considered greater than other workers. In fact, people tried to break up marriages so their "need' would be less.

When they first proposed this great social experiment of "love" in a meeting, when person walked out defying the rules, that you can't quit. He was a brilliant, young, engineering, who would revolutionize the motor. His name was John Galt.

The owner of the company who insituted this policy became high up in D.C. He was one of the looters.

That scene was devestating. Extremely well done.

Very true. She made her points very well.

The book itself is very gripping.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Atlast Shrugged is one of my favorite books. But I wouldn't want to live in a Randian nightmare world.

As a political philosopher, she was a good novelist.

Well, personal taste is personal taste. I had a hard time getting through Atlas Shrugged - She uses too many words to say too little. I had a better time getting through Anthem. In terms of her politics - she admitted that her politics were entirely utopian ideals, with no basis to exist in our society - and, like you said, I have no desire to live in a Randian nightmare world either.

Not quite the same as an Archie comic is it? Short attention span problem?

Is it so hard to accept that I read the book, know what its about, know all the theory, and yet still think it's a poor piece of literature and a ridiculous political theory? Opinions are like assholes - everyone has them. And I'm entitled to mine. I think the book is a piece of shit novel.