Obama and Biden Attempt To Take Credit For Surge Success

[rightwinger]

After rdean...your the dumbest motherf***er on these boards. Clinton had Bin Laden twice and both times he didn't do a damn thing.

So, let me get this straight...

I agree that, in all probability, no-one else would have been able to stop 9/11 either, and I also admit that even using Clinton's strategy, someone would have had to have been very lucky to have even hit Bin Laden...

and that also causes you to insult me?

Wow, you're just a complete asshole.

Read what you posted moron.....Clinton DIDN'T DO SHIT TO CATCH OR KILL BIN LADEN!!! You deserve what I said when you post unadulterated bullshit.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9808/20/us.strikes.01/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saying "there will be no sanctuary for terrorists," President Clinton on Thursday said the U.S. strikes against terrorist bases in Afghanistan and a facility in Sudan are part of "a long, ongoing struggle between freedom and fanaticism."

His comments were broadcast live from the White House shortly after he arrived in Washington from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

American cruise missiles pounded sites in Afghanistan and Sudan Thursday in retaliation for the August 7 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

U.S. officials say the six sites attacked in Afghanistan were part of a network of terrorist compounds near the Pakistani border that housed supporters of Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden.

American officials say they have "convincing evidence" that bin Laden, who has been given shelter by Afghanistan's Islamic rulers, was involved in the bombings of the east African embassies.

 

[RedChalk]

No way can they get away with this one. The surge was opposed by every single solitary soul in Washington except W (how about that joke of a commission headed by Surrender Jimmy III?), and then it actually worked. One of the great overlooked successes of the Bush years.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So, let me get this straight...

I agree that, in all probability, no-one else would have been able to stop 9/11 either, and I also admit that even using Clinton's strategy, someone would have had to have been very lucky to have even hit Bin Laden...

and that also causes you to insult me?

Wow, you're just a complete asshole.

Read what you posted moron.....Clinton DIDN'T DO SHIT TO CATCH OR KILL BIN LADEN!!! You deserve what I said when you post unadulterated bullshit.

CNN - U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan - August 20, 1998

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saying "there will be no sanctuary for terrorists," President Clinton on Thursday said the U.S. strikes against terrorist bases in Afghanistan and a facility in Sudan are part of "a long, ongoing struggle between freedom and fanaticism."

His comments were broadcast live from the White House shortly after he arrived in Washington from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

American cruise missiles pounded sites in Afghanistan and Sudan Thursday in retaliation for the August 7 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

U.S. officials say the six sites attacked in Afghanistan were part of a network of terrorist compounds near the Pakistani border that housed supporters of Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden.

American officials say they have "convincing evidence" that bin Laden, who has been given shelter by Afghanistan's Islamic rulers, was involved in the bombings of the east African embassies.

Nowhere in the article did it indicate that Osama was the target. The sites that were attacked housed supporters of Osama.

 

[rightwinger]

Read what you posted moron.....Clinton DIDN'T DO SHIT TO CATCH OR KILL BIN LADEN!!! You deserve what I said when you post unadulterated bullshit.

CNN - U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan - August 20, 1998

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saying "there will be no sanctuary for terrorists," President Clinton on Thursday said the U.S. strikes against terrorist bases in Afghanistan and a facility in Sudan are part of "a long, ongoing struggle between freedom and fanaticism."

His comments were broadcast live from the White House shortly after he arrived in Washington from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

American cruise missiles pounded sites in Afghanistan and Sudan Thursday in retaliation for the August 7 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

U.S. officials say the six sites attacked in Afghanistan were part of a network of terrorist compounds near the Pakistani border that housed supporters of Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden.

American officials say they have "convincing evidence" that bin Laden, who has been given shelter by Afghanistan's Islamic rulers, was involved in the bombings of the east African embassies.

Nowhere in the article did it indicate that Osama was the target. The sites that were attacked housed supporters of Osama.

Evidently, bin Laden had recently vacated the area. He came closer than Bush did

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Read what you posted moron.....Clinton DIDN'T DO SHIT TO CATCH OR KILL BIN LADEN!!! You deserve what I said when you post unadulterated bullshit.

Oh, you're so right! Clinton never tried to kill Bin Laden with missle attacks, twice. Never happened.

But putting your revisionist history aside for the moment:

I WAS AGREEING THAT ANOTHER PRESIDENT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED 9/11.

And for that you insulted me.

And then, instead of apologizing, you insulted me again when I pointed that out.

Which makes you a fucking moron.

Are you talking about the wag the dog aspirin factory attack or taking out Al Qaeda's goat herd with 40 million dollars worth of cruise missiles?

You're the fucking moron who fell for this bullshit!!!!!

 

[rightwinger]

Read what you posted moron.....Clinton DIDN'T DO SHIT TO CATCH OR KILL BIN LADEN!!! You deserve what I said when you post unadulterated bullshit.

Oh, you're so right! Clinton never tried to kill Bin Laden with missle attacks, twice. Never happened.

But putting your revisionist history aside for the moment:

I WAS AGREEING THAT ANOTHER PRESIDENT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED 9/11.

And for that you insulted me.

And then, instead of apologizing, you insulted me again when I pointed that out.

Which makes you a fucking moron.

Are you talking about the wag the dog aspirin factory attack or taking out Al Qaeda's goat herd with 40 million dollars worth of cruise missiles?

You're the fucking moron who fell for this bullshit!!!!!

Fact is that Clinton came closer than Bush did with a Billion $ a week Army Division on the ground.
But of course...Bush lost his nerve at the last minute and allowed Bin Laden to escape

 

[PatekPhilippe]

CNN - U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan - August 20, 1998

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saying "there will be no sanctuary for terrorists," President Clinton on Thursday said the U.S. strikes against terrorist bases in Afghanistan and a facility in Sudan are part of "a long, ongoing struggle between freedom and fanaticism."

His comments were broadcast live from the White House shortly after he arrived in Washington from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

American cruise missiles pounded sites in Afghanistan and Sudan Thursday in retaliation for the August 7 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

U.S. officials say the six sites attacked in Afghanistan were part of a network of terrorist compounds near the Pakistani border that housed supporters of Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden.

American officials say they have "convincing evidence" that bin Laden, who has been given shelter by Afghanistan's Islamic rulers, was involved in the bombings of the east African embassies.

Nowhere in the article did it indicate that Osama was the target. The sites that were attacked housed supporters of Osama.

Evidently, bin Laden had recently vacated the area. He came closer than Bush did

Wrong as usual.....
The military got a piece of his ass at Tora Bora...Clinton never got within a hundred miles of him...NEVER!!!
CNN.com - Sources: bin Laden wounded in Tora Bora battle - April 18, 2002

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Oh, you're so right! Clinton never tried to kill Bin Laden with missle attacks, twice. Never happened.

But putting your revisionist history aside for the moment:

I WAS AGREEING THAT ANOTHER PRESIDENT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED 9/11.

And for that you insulted me.

And then, instead of apologizing, you insulted me again when I pointed that out.

Which makes you a fucking moron.

Are you talking about the wag the dog aspirin factory attack or taking out Al Qaeda's goat herd with 40 million dollars worth of cruise missiles?

You're the fucking moron who fell for this bullshit!!!!!

Fact is that Clinton came closer than Bush did with a Billion $ a week Army Division on the ground.
But of course...Bush lost his nerve at the last minute and allowed Bin Laden to escape

Since when was Bush giving orders to ground commanders you idiot!!!!! Tell us some more DailyKOS bullshit...it should be quite entertaining!!!!

 

[Vast LWC]

Are you talking about the wag the dog aspirin factory attack or taking out Al Qaeda's goat herd with 40 million dollars worth of cruise missiles?

You're the fucking moron who fell for this bullshit!!!!!

What are you even TALKING about?

I said it was an ineffective strategy, that was my point in saying it. Can't you read???

That being said, he did in fact TRY. He HAD a strategy, if an ineffective one.

Now if you'll just stop being such a partisan asshole, maybe you'll see that the point of what I wrote was to agree that 9/11 wasn't Bush's fault, not to extol the virtues of the Clinton approach to the Al Qaeda problem. Duh.

 

[Vast LWC]

Wrong as usual.....
The military got a piece of his ass at Tora Bora...Clinton never got within a hundred miles of him...NEVER!!!
CNN.com - Sources: bin Laden wounded in Tora Bora battle - April 18, 2002

Except...

However, the al Qaeda prisoners contradicted each other when interrogated about bin Laden's possible injuries and whereabouts, and there is no independent confirmation that he was wounded in the battle.

CNN.com - Sources: bin Laden wounded in Tora Bora battle - April 18, 2002

You should read the articles you post.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Are you talking about the wag the dog aspirin factory attack or taking out Al Qaeda's goat herd with 40 million dollars worth of cruise missiles?

You're the fucking moron who fell for this bullshit!!!!!

What are you even TALKING about?

I said it was an ineffective strategy, that was my point in saying it. Can't you read???

That being said, he did in fact TRY. He HAD a strategy, if an ineffective one.

Now if you'll just stop being such a partisan asshole, maybe you'll see that the point of what I wrote was to agree that 9/11 wasn't Bush's fault, not to extol the virtues of the Clinton approach to the Al Qaeda problem. Duh.

I'm not talking about 9/11. I'm talking about the left wing nutter talking point saying Clinton had a active program or contract if you will, out to kill Bin laden. This is a flat out lie and Clinton's justification for NOT trying to assasinate Bin Laden was an executive order banning assassinations of political leaders. You say Bush didn't do a fucking thing...that's a goddam lie and you know it. Now quit trying to make this about 9/11 and stick to the Bin Laden point I'M MAKING!!!

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Wrong as usual.....
The military got a piece of his ass at Tora Bora...Clinton never got within a hundred miles of him...NEVER!!!
CNN.com - Sources: bin Laden wounded in Tora Bora battle - April 18, 2002

Except...

However, the al Qaeda prisoners contradicted each other when interrogated about bin Laden's possible injuries and whereabouts, and there is no independent confirmation that he was wounded in the battle.

CNN.com - Sources: bin Laden wounded in Tora Bora battle - April 18, 2002

You should read the articles you post.

Whooopty fucking dooo...in the other link there was NO VERIFICATION Bin Laden was there either when Clinton executed Al Qaeda's goat herd.

 

[Vast LWC]

I'm not talking about 9/11. I'm talking about the left wing nutter talking point saying Clinton had a active program or contract if you will, out to kill Bin laden. This is a flat out lie and Clinton's justification for NOT trying to assasinate Bin Laden was an executive order banning assassinations of political leaders. You say Bush didn't do a fucking thing...that's a goddam lie and you know it. Now quit trying to make this about 9/11 and stick to the Bin Laden point I'M MAKING!!!

That law only applied to leaders of foreign nations. Bin Laden is not a leader of a foreign nation.

You've been attacking me, this entire time, for a response I made to Sgt Ollie, agreeing that 9/11 was not Bush's fault.

This post, to be specific:

Are you that high on drugs? The attacks of 9-11-01 would have happened no matter who the president was.

Yeah, I may have to agree here.

I mean maybe if whoever else might have been president had continued the Clinton methods of trying to kill Bin Laden, instead of just ignoring Al Qaeda, they might have gotten lucky and taken him out...

...But even if they had, the attack probably would have happened anyway.

Notice the bolded portions where I said "Maybe... they might have gotten lucky", indicating a very small chance of that actually happening. And where I stated that 9/11 would have happened anyway, thus indicating that it was not Bush's fault.

And yes, Bush did ignore Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. He did not make ANY effort at all to kill anyone in the organization.

Clinton did in fact have a strategy, an ineffective strategy, that I pointed out would have in all probability NOT prevented another 9/11, and probably not even gotten Bin Laden if continued.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm not talking about 9/11. I'm talking about the left wing nutter talking point saying Clinton had a active program or contract if you will, out to kill Bin laden. This is a flat out lie and Clinton's justification for NOT trying to assasinate Bin Laden was an executive order banning assassinations of political leaders. You say Bush didn't do a fucking thing...that's a goddam lie and you know it. Now quit trying to make this about 9/11 and stick to the Bin Laden point I'M MAKING!!!

I saw Clinton on Fox News of all places saying he actively tried to take Bin Laden out, and he did. Remember the bombing of camps in Afghanistan and the pharmaceutical company in the Sudan...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I'm not talking about 9/11. I'm talking about the left wing nutter talking point saying Clinton had a active program or contract if you will, out to kill Bin laden. This is a flat out lie and Clinton's justification for NOT trying to assasinate Bin Laden was an executive order banning assassinations of political leaders. You say Bush didn't do a fucking thing...that's a goddam lie and you know it. Now quit trying to make this about 9/11 and stick to the Bin Laden point I'M MAKING!!!

That law only applied to leaders of foreign nations. Bin Laden is not a leader of a foreign nation.

You've been attacking me, this entire time, for a response I made to Sgt Ollie, agreeing that 9/11 was not Bush's fault.

This post, to be specific:

Are you that high on drugs? The attacks of 9-11-01 would have happened no matter who the president was.

Yeah, I may have to agree here.

I mean maybe if whoever else might have been president had continued the Clinton methods of trying to kill Bin Laden, instead of just ignoring Al Qaeda, they might have gotten lucky and taken him out...

...But even if they had, the attack probably would have happened anyway.

Notice the bolded portions where I said "Maybe... they might have gotten lucky", indicating a very small chance of that actually happening. And where I stated that 9/11 would have happened anyway, thus indicating that it was not Bush's fault.

And yes, Bush did ignore Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. He did not make ANY effort at all to kill anyone in the organization.

Clinton did in fact have a strategy, an ineffective strategy, that I pointed out would have in all probability NOT prevented another 9/11, and probably not even gotten Bin Laden if continued.

What I'm saying is this...

And yes, Bush did ignore Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. He did not make ANY effort at all to kill anyone in the organization.

is a fucking lie and you know it.

and Clinton's lawyers, in their infinite stupidity, said the executive order applied to Bin laden as the defacto head of an organization that had State sponsorship....plus they also said they were afraid the Republicans would impeach him for murder.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Plus a number of highly placed sources say he is dead....Look at this....

How did Bin Laden change the shape of his head?

 

[Vast LWC]

What I'm saying is this...

And yes, Bush did ignore Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. He did not make ANY effort at all to kill anyone in the organization.

is a fucking lie and you know it.

OK, you stumped me. What specific actions did George Bush take to eliminate Bin Laden as a threat in the 10 months prior to 9/11 that he was president?

and Clinton's lawyers, in their infinite stupidity, said the executive order applied to Bin laden as the defacto head of an organization that had State sponsorship....plus they also said they were afraid the Republicans would impeach him for murder.

You're really going to have to provide a credible link for this one. No lawyer that I know would ever come to such a far-fetched conclusion.

Both Clinton and his wife were top-notch lawyers themselves, they would have never thought this.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

First of all those 10 months you speak about are in reality only 7 and 1/2 months....secondly the transition from one regime to the next with TENET STILL AT THE HELM of the CIA, the Bin Laden Unit was still in full pursuit of him. Just because Bush didn't come out screaming and yelling about Bin Laden for 7 AND 1/2 MONTHS doesn't mean the CIA wasn't STILL ACTIVELY SEEKING HIM OUT!

Now try posting something with a snippet of truth in it.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What I'm saying is this...

And yes, Bush did ignore Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. He did not make ANY effort at all to kill anyone in the organization.

is a fucking lie and you know it.

OK, you stumped me. What specific actions did George Bush take to eliminate Bin Laden as a threat in the 10 months prior to 9/11 that he was president?

and Clinton's lawyers, in their infinite stupidity, said the executive order applied to Bin laden as the defacto head of an organization that had State sponsorship....plus they also said they were afraid the Republicans would impeach him for murder.

You're really going to have to provide a credible link for this one. No lawyer that I know would ever come to such a far-fetched conclusion.

Both Clinton and his wife were top-notch lawyers themselves, they would have never thought this.

On October 1, 2006, Michael Scheuer appeared on Fox News Sunday and had the following exchange with host Chris Wallace:
WALLACE: Mr. Scheuer, as the man in charge of what was called "Alec Station," the CIA unit in charge of hunting down Usama bin Laden, you say the Clinton administration missed at least 10 chances to get him. I don't want to go into all 10, but what was the problem?
FORMER CIA UNIT CHIEF MICHAEL SCHEUER: Well, the president is correct, in that he got - President Clinton is correct that he got closer than anyone, but, of course, he always refused to pull the trigger. And in addition, we were never authorized, while I was the chief of operations, to kill Usama bin Laden. In fact, Mr. Richard Clarke definitely told us we had no authorization to kill bin Laden.
Why they didn't shoot, of course, is, at least from Mr. Tenet's viewpoint it was because one time they were afraid to have shrapnel hit a mosque when they killed bin Laden. And two other times I think they were afraid they actually would have to do something, so they warned the emirates on one occasion, the princes from the United Arab Emirates, to move so we couldn't attack bin Laden.
WALLACE: They were on a hunting trip with bin Laden.
SCHEUER: Yes, sir. And Richard Clarke called the emirates and warned them that they should get out of that area, which cost us the chance to kill him.
WALLACE: In your opinion, as somebody who was up close and personal, why didn't the Clinton administration go after Al Qaeda after the USS Cole?
SCHEUER: Mr. Wallace, my opinion is not all that important. I went to a little Jesuit school in Buffalo called Canisius, and the priests taught us never to lie, but if you had to lie, never lie about facts. Mr. Richard Clarke, Mr. Sandy Berger, President Clinton are lying about the opportunities they had to kill Usama bin Laden. That's the plain truth, the exact truth.
Men and women at the CIA risked their lives to provide occasions to kill a man we knew had declared war and had attacked America four or five times before 1998. We had plans that had been approved by the Joint Operations Command at Fort Bragg. We had opportunities, many opportunities to kill him.
But that's the president's decision. That's absolutely the case. It's not a simple, dumb bureaucrat like me; that's not my decision. It's his. But for him to get on the television and say to the American people he did all he could is a flat lie, sir.

Michael Scheuer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Vast LWC]

On October 1, 2006, Michael Scheuer appeared on Fox News Sunday and had the following exchange with host Chris Wallace:
WALLACE: Mr. Scheuer, as the man in charge of what was called "Alec Station," the CIA unit in charge of hunting down Usama bin Laden, you say the Clinton administration missed at least 10 chances to get him. I don't want to go into all 10, but what was the problem?
FORMER CIA UNIT CHIEF MICHAEL SCHEUER: Well, the president is correct, in that he got - President Clinton is correct that he got closer than anyone, but, of course, he always refused to pull the trigger. And in addition, we were never authorized, while I was the chief of operations, to kill Usama bin Laden. In fact, Mr. Richard Clarke definitely told us we had no authorization to kill bin Laden.
Why they didn't shoot, of course, is, at least from Mr. Tenet's viewpoint it was because one time they were afraid to have shrapnel hit a mosque when they killed bin Laden. And two other times I think they were afraid they actually would have to do something, so they warned the emirates on one occasion, the princes from the United Arab Emirates, to move so we couldn't attack bin Laden.
WALLACE: They were on a hunting trip with bin Laden.
SCHEUER: Yes, sir. And Richard Clarke called the emirates and warned them that they should get out of that area, which cost us the chance to kill him.
WALLACE: In your opinion, as somebody who was up close and personal, why didn't the Clinton administration go after Al Qaeda after the USS Cole?
SCHEUER: Mr. Wallace, my opinion is not all that important. I went to a little Jesuit school in Buffalo called Canisius, and the priests taught us never to lie, but if you had to lie, never lie about facts. Mr. Richard Clarke, Mr. Sandy Berger, President Clinton are lying about the opportunities they had to kill Usama bin Laden. That's the plain truth, the exact truth.
Men and women at the CIA risked their lives to provide occasions to kill a man we knew had declared war and had attacked America four or five times before 1998. We had plans that had been approved by the Joint Operations Command at Fort Bragg. We had opportunities, many opportunities to kill him.
But that's the president's decision. That's absolutely the case. It's not a simple, dumb bureaucrat like me; that's not my decision. It's his. But for him to get on the television and say to the American people he did all he could is a flat lie, sir.

Michael Scheuer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK, so many things wrong with this where to start...

1) This does not prove the point you made about "Clinton not wanting to kill Bin Laden because he was a foreign head of state" AT ALL. Not even a little bit.

2) The person in that interview was in charge of tracking Bin Laden. Of course he would have been concentrating on him and him alone.

3) Even in this interview, the person in question tells us why they didn't attack him on the occasions he talks about. Reasons like "Not wanting to destroy a mosque" or "Not wanting to kill foreign heads of state" that were with Bin Laden at the time.

And finally:

4) Mr Clinton NEVER "got on the television and said to the American people he did all he could" about Bin Laden, ever. He exact words were "we didn't kill him, but at least we tried."

If Mr Clinton had "Done all he could", he would have, at the very least, caused an international incident, and this was prior to 9/11.

But once again, we can thank FoxNews for painting a pretty little picture to fit into their narration.

None of what you just posted either proved your point, or proved that Clinton didn't try to kill Bin Laden, it simply proves that in the opinion of the man who was charged with hunting Bin Laden down, Clinton didn't do enough.

As opposed to Bush, who did nothing at all.