North Korea War Fever

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Circe, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    The news today 3/28 is leading on most sites with the USA sending Stealth bombers to South Korea against the threats North Korea is constantly making.

    I am interested to see that there is NO THREAD here on this entire forum about North Korea, but not surprised because this is a "Boy Crying Wolf" situation. The crazy NK style of "diplomacy," if you can call it that, is repeated threats and aggression and generally crazy talk, while nuking up as fast as possible. Iran, obviously, has also adopted this style, so I guess on some level, it works.

    So NK constantly threatens war against us, but nothing has happened for decades except their small aggressions, like shooting down planes and sinking ships and firing on island populations. They kill people, but they don't actually charge over the border with their Million Man Army. And nobody here is interested, because we assume that will go on and on forever.

    But what if it didn't? My belief is that people mean what they say: that's why they say it. Just because a madman talks aggressively about guns and knives for months but doesn't do anything doesn't mean he'll NEVER attack shoppers in Walmart or Target, or run around shooting up his trailer park.

    We ignored bin Laden's aggression talk, and then he started acting and took out two embassies and a Navy ship, and we STILL ignored him, because Americans care nothing about whatever goes on in other countries. But with bin Laden, this was a mistake: tearing his hair with frustration that he could not get our attention even with the embassies and the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, he figured out that the only way to get our attention is to aggress against us here at home, and he bombed New York. And that worked.

    I think that could be going on with North Korea. Or maybe not! Maybe it's just more of the same crazy talk. But I notice our military IS responding with caution and a beef-up of fighting capacity, wisely, IMO. Anyone else care about the possibility of war with North Korea, or are you all sure nothing can possibly happen?
     
  2. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Gold Member

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    North Korea's angry rhetoric for decades with nothing happening occurred under Kim Jong Ill. There is a different leader today. Kim Jong Un is mostly and unknown quantity.

    We have a different leader. obama is the most incompetent president this nation has ever had. Not only is he incompetent, but he does not permit competent people around him. He has been systematically firing competent military leaders who don't pander to his good will. America has no coherent foreign policy.

    Peace depends, not on obama, but on Kim Jong Un. It isn't obama's expertise and skill that's keeping whatever peace there is, but the North Korean leader's. And that leader, unfortunately, smells blood in the water.
     
  3. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    Yeah, I've been reading just that point in several op-ed analyses. I'm somewhat reassured to see that others are taking this new strange aggression seriously, too. He's the most aggressive, so far. True, they always do a provocation after a new SK prez is sworn in, check; and it MAY be a way to unify his people: since he's not getting the food aid because of his nuclear test and there are extra UN sanctions, so threaten everyone to get his people behind him? Still, I'm not persuaded there is method to this madness: there could just be madness.

    I don't know who you mean, K&D? Those two generals whose affairs with women got them retired or not going on to the NATO post? There was another general in Afghanistan who got in trouble with the Rolling Stones article; IMO we're having a surprising rash of major IQ deficit in our military leadership, but I can't think of firings of generals not related to incredibly stupid and immoral behavior.


    I agree. Peace depends on Kim Jong Un not starting a war. The question is, does he want to start a war? He SAYS so, but really, we can't tell what he really intends till we see the behavior. What I like right now is that we aren't saying, "Oh, no problem, it's just talk, he doesn't really mean it." That's what Chamberlain said about Hitler, poor Chamberlain! Well, that's unfair, Hitler explicitly promised him he wouldn't go further than Czechoslovakia if they would appease him.

    German militarism before World War I. They wanted to rule Europe: they were perfectly clear about that, saying it often. And, we now know, they really meant it, and for the next 30 years, too.

    What does Kim Jong Un WANT? Does he want the whole Korean penninsula? Does he want us to back off and give him stuff? Does he want his people unified behind him the war leader?

    The whole thing puzzles me. Our record surely is clear? When attacked, America absolutely hauls off and destroys the other side. I don't see any obvious reason, not China even, why we wouldn't do that this time. Does Kim somehow not recognize this rather obvious historical fact?
     
  4. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    Whoa, we're practicing.
     
  5. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Gold Member

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    Military leaders fired by obama.

    Gen. Stanley McChrystal
    Gen. Carter Ham
    Maj. Gen. Peter Fuller
    Rear Admiral Charles M. Gaourette
    General David M. McKiernan
    General John Allen
    General James Mattis.

    All total, there are 15 Generals fired by obama during his short presidebtcy. I don't have all their names. I did not include David Petreus who resigned due to a sex scandal.

    15 generals fired. This would be a systematic decapitation of our military leadership by any stretch. General William Shelton was not fired, because he lied to a congressional committee on obama's behalf.

    Ham and Gauourette were fired because they colluded to create a plan to rescue the personnel at Benghazi in violation of stand down orders. They did stand down, because their plan was to create the plan then wait for an order to execute it. That order never came but they were fired for even thinking about rescue.

    What does Kim Jong Un want? He wants an end to the United States. That's all.
     
  6. WethePeopleUS
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    WethePeopleUS Member

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    I honestly think if NK does pop off at the South, that would be the worst mistake they ever made. I hardly think taking out the NK regime would be difficult for the U.S. but that is just my opinion.
     
  7. Mad Scientist
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    You think those Stealth Bombers are gonna' drop a few on that Joint Manufacturing Facility that South Korea has set up in N.Korea?

    Neither do I.

    Why would Obama sign a Free Trade Agreement with South Korea that utilizes that facility just last year and then bomb it?

    Because he won't.
     
  8. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Clipboard Guy! Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The US should send a huge fleet of ships just off the North Korean shore and then say the North fired at them!

    Worked in the Gulf of Tonkin.
     
  9. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Gold Member

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    Here is the reality of the situation. North Korea has an insane leader, but so do WE! At least Un was raised by a father who was the leader of North Korea. He's got some background. obama has nothing maintaining him but a need for an increasingly lavish lifestyle. Un might be absolutely crazy, but he's competent. obama is crazy and incompetent. Not only is he incompetent, but he has eliminated anyone around him who might accidentally be competent.
     
  10. ThirdTerm
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    ThirdTerm Severely Conservative

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    North Korea's threats and provocations are seen as efforts to provoke the new government in Seoul, led by President Park Geun-hye, to change its policies toward Pyongyang. North Korea's moves at home to order troops into "combat readiness" are seen as ways to build domestic unity as young leader Kim Jong Un strengthens his military credentials. Park so far has outlined a policy that looks to re-engage North Korea, stressing the need for greater trust with North Korea while saying Pyongyang will "pay the price" for any provocation.

    Korean Border Open Despite NKorean Hotline Cut - ABC News
     
  11. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Gold Member

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    Do you think he cares about a FTA? If it isn't happening in his living room, it isn't happening.
     
  12. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    McCrystal was the Rolling Stones idiot, so I don't think you should count him.

    Okay, I haven't heard anything about this "decapitation," so you know more about it than I do. There doesn't seem much about it in the news. The Benghazi thing was disgraceful, of course.


    Iran may well want that, because we give them NOTHING and keep them from getting stuff and from destroying Israel. We give North Korea stuff, though lately we have been preventing them from getting stuff and from selling weapons and lots of contraband like counterfeit dollars. It would make sense that NK wants the U.S. to disappear IF they want the whole penninsula: we definitely prevent that, it's our main function there.

    Hmmmm. You may have a point there. Our existence does no good to NK, only harm. Still, it doesn't make sense re their constantly talking about a war. Surely they know they cannot destroy us and that we can and probably will destroy them? They have to know that, so what are they doing, I wonder.
     
  13. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Apparently NK is in it's starving season so they rattle sabers hoping they can extort food and money from less ignorant and savage countries.
     
  14. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    True................worked well in Havana Harbor in 1898, too. Remember the Maine.

    I hope such a thing doesn't happen this time. I approve of defensive wars -- if they hit, we hit back bigtime -- but not this sort of manufactured "he started it!!" stuff to fool the American public.
     
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  15. Katzndogz
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    Katzndogz Gold Member

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    Your reliance on our leadership having an interest in protecting the nation is inflated. This regime has no such interest, no more than it did in protecting the embassy in Benghazi. obama would do nothing, because when and if he did anything, it would be too late. He is the presidebt of dithering.
     
  16. Bleipriester
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    Bleipriester Freedom!

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  17. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    The first thread is yours and no one replied; I wouldn't call that a "thread," exactly. It was you saying you are on the side of North Korea and against the USA, noted. And you continue that on this thread. I don't find it useful to have discussions with overt foreign enemies of my country, as you seem to be.
     
  18. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    North Korea leader orders rocket units on standby to hit U.S. bases: KCNA

    7:00pm EDT 3/28

    SEOUL - North Korean leader Kim Jong-un orders the country's rocket units to be on standby to attack U.S. military bases in South Korea and the Pacific in an emergency meeting on Friday after the United States flew Stealth bombers in a show of force to Pyongyang.
    ********************************************


    I'm almost beginning to wonder if he means it.

    Naaaaaaah, impossible.
     
  19. Bleipriester
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    Bleipriester Freedom!

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    Not exactly. How is North Korea a threat to the USA?
    And is North Korea really an enemy to the USA? I think it is just the USA, who is an enemy to North Korea. I just try to show the other side of the medal. You cannot call something diplomacy when only one side has a say.

    "We oppose the reactionary policies of the U.S. government but we do not oppose the American people. We want to have many good friends in the United States."
    - Kim Jong Il
     
  20. Circe
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    Circe Senior Member

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    Kim seems to be trying desperately to get American attention. He can't, though -- bin Laden had the same problem. We simply are not interested in anything going on outside this country, except colorful things like the Pope washing prisoners' feet, which is a headline running now instead of Kim's threats to start a war.

    There really are only two ways to get our attention. The best way is to hit our homeland; we tolerate that poorly.

    The other way is to hit bases abroad, but unless there is a massive kill, that doesn't work either. That's why we have so many personnel in South Korea: the treaty always called for those to be "tripwire" troops, whose death (there are 30,000 now) would provoke a for-sure war with an indignant and angry America. I THINK that might still work.........

    Does anyone think it wouldn't? It didn't work to hit the U.S.S. Cole, we blew that off. It certainly didn't work to hit the Benghazi embassy ---- we were angry, but only at other Americans, not the Libyan killers. So I'm not perfectly sure hitting our base in Korea would work to start a war, if that is what NK wants.
     

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