No terrorists here

[Shogun]

Israel and the US have voted against a two state solution? ER... last I heard, there was a deal and Arafat said he couldn't sign off on it because he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

So, who's two-state solution?

funny... I would think you'd stay as far away from the name Rabin as possible.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

HhHmmmmm...I honestly think that Israel does want a two-state system or else they would not have given up the Gaza and most of the West Bank. The only real sticking point is Jerusalem. I think it should be an international city on the auspices of the UN.

Leadership can take responsibility for the mess the Pals are in. Arafat put a fair share of the aid money meant for his people into French and Swiss bank accounts. Of course, the problem he had was that if he did try and make peace he'd have ended up like Rabin.

The record speaks for itself and cannot be ignored. The US and Israel have consistently voted against a two state settlement in the past. The international community has consistently supported, for the past quarter-century, the "two-state" settlement: that is, the full Israeli withdrawal/full Arab recognition formula as well as the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

The United States cast the lone veto of Security Council resolutions in January 1976 and April 1980 affirming the two-state settlement that were endorsed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and neighboring Arab states.

In December, 1989 the General Assembly resolution along similar lines passed 151-3. There were no abstentions and the three negative votes cast by Israel, the United States, and Dominica.

Israel set as a crucial precondition for negotiations that Palestinians "must drop their traditional demand" for "international arbitration" or a "Security Council mechanism.

The United States actually used to be on the side of the Palestinians. The Nixon-Kisisnger era began the turnaround towards a more pro-Israeli approach.

 

[Shogun]

HhHmmmmm...I honestly think that Israel does want a two-state system or else they would not have given up the Gaza and most of the West Bank. The only real sticking point is Jerusalem. I think it should be an international city on the auspices of the UN.

Leadership can take responsibility for the mess the Pals are in. Arafat put a fair share of the aid money meant for his people into French and Swiss bank accounts. Of course, the problem he had was that if he did try and make peace he'd have ended up like Rabin.

say.. who killed Rabin again?


yes.


CLEARLY this is the fault of those pesky fucking pals all blowin up and shit.

 

[jillian]

funny... I would think you'd stay as far away from the name Rabin as possible.

Why? Because a jewish nutcase killed him? Or because he was willing to agree to things that would have left Israel without the ability to defend itself... both are true.

 

[Swamp Fox]

How bout somewhere in between where it doesn't leave 1,000 innocent Lebanese dead?

When the Lebanese stop Hezbollah, then they'll be innocent. Until then, I don't think of them as innocent at all.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

How is this case going? Any updates?

Not good for the prosecution.

This is the second time the government has tried to pin a terrorist case on these men.

The first time, four jurors would not convict the men because they thought it was a scam. The government replaced the jury with another 12 heads and started the process all over again.

The FBI agents otherwise known as the the "two government informants" had backgrounds as snitches, liars and all around lowlifes. One extorted $7,000 from a friend who raped his girlfriend and then, after accepting the money, beat her up and went to jail.

The other failed an FBI polygraph test while working on an undercover investigation, which one former FBI agent says should have disqualified him from ever working for the government again. Oh, and he was also once charged with roughing up a woman.

In fact, the trial was so bizarre the Judge allowed a self-admitted neo-conservative and former Reagan administration official on the stand. His name was Raymond Tanter and his participation in the trial remains exemplary of the political nature of the case.

He testified that "the Liberty City defendants were dangerous terrorists who, in part because of their extreme poverty, had reached the "jihadization" stage."

What makes it even stranger is that Tanter himself promotes a terrorist organization called the MEK (Mujahedin-e Khalq) that is opposed to the Iranian government. As a founding member of the Iran Policy Committee he has urged Washington to remove the MEK from the terrorist list and back it for "regime change" in Iran.http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/3278.html

 

[jillian]

say.. who killed Rabin again?


yes.


CLEARLY this is the fault of those pesky fucking pals all blowin up and shit.

which has what to do with the issue under discussion?

oh right... it has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Shogun]

Why? Because a jewish nutcase killed him? Or because he was willing to agree to things that would have left Israel without the ability to defend itself... both are true.

Indeed.. Say, Jill.. I bet THAT GUY used to say Isreal, right or wrong too.


listen.. you can keep defending the same old shit forever. Hell, we still have nazi sympathizers STILL.

 

[Shogun]

which has what to do with the issue under discussion?

oh right... it has nothing to do with anything.

Oh I think it's pretty damn relevant when you zionists keep acting like isrealis are wholly innocent and not at all active in perpetuating an awfully convenient cycle of violence.

 

[Swamp Fox]

And Israel invaded Lebanon because.....

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli troops and armored vehicles crossed into southern Gaza early Wednesday in what the Israeli military said was an attempt to rescue a soldier kidnapped by Palestinian militants.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/27/israel.soldier/index.html

That answer your question?

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli troops and armored vehicles crossed into southern Gaza early Wednesday in what the Israeli military said was an attempt to rescue a soldier kidnapped by Palestinian militants.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/27/israel.soldier/index.html

That answer your question?

Did you honestly think the source you used - the Israeli Defense Ministry - would say anything different?

I think a more objective would approach would benefit the discussion.

 

[dread]

Did you honestly think the source you used - the Israeli Defense Ministry - would say anything different?

I think a more objective would approach would benefit the discussion.

What part of this.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Is...banon_conflict

The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border towns as a diversion for an anti-tank missile attack on two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence.[20] Of the seven Israeli soldiers in the two jeeps, two were wounded, three were killed, and two were captured and taken to Lebanon.[20] Five more were killed in a failed Israeli rescue attempt.


Didn't you get?

 

[dread]

Oh I think it's pretty damn relevant when you zionists keep acting like isrealis are wholly innocent and not at all active in perpetuating an awfully convenient cycle of violence.

Maybe you need to take a look at this....

http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=53564


You may have a new found respect for Jews...But I doubt it...

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

What part of this.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Is...banon_conflict

The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border towns as a diversion for an anti-tank missile attack on two armored Humvees patrolling the Israeli side of the border fence.[20] Of the seven Israeli soldiers in the two jeeps, two were wounded, three were killed, and two were captured and taken to Lebanon.[20] Five more were killed in a failed Israeli rescue attempt.


Didn't you get?

The part where the article claims " The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border...". That is subjective to say the least.
I've read different reports from objective sources that say that is not when "it began." And in fact, tell a very different tale in proper context.

What you are offering is the "moral justification" one side (Israel) has presented as the cause. I do not think Hezbollah would agree thats when it "began".

Either way, your link is broken so there is no way to check the source. Fix the link.

 

[dread]

The part where the article claims " The conflict began when Hezbollah militants fired rockets at Israeli border...". That is subjective to say the least. I've read different reports from objective sources that say that is not when "it began." And in fact, tell a very different tale.

Either way, your link is broken so there is no way to check the source. Fix the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_conflict

The 2006 Lebanon War, known in Lebanon as the July War[18] (Arabic: حرب تموز Ḥarb Tammūz) and in Israel as the Second Lebanon War (Hebrew: מלחמת לבנון השנייה Milkhemet Levanon Ha-Shniya),[19] was a 33-day military conflict in Lebanon and northern Israel. The principal parties were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military.


Nothing subjective about it...It DID happen. If you say it didnt then by all means...Prove me wrong with a report that says otherwise.

 

[Diuretic]

Not good for the prosecution.

This is the second time the government has tried to pin a terrorist case on these men.

The first time, four jurors would not convict the men because they thought it was a scam. The government replaced the jury with another 12 heads and started the process all over again.

The FBI agents otherwise known as the the "two government informants" had backgrounds as snitches, liars and all around lowlifes. One extorted $7,000 from a friend who raped his girlfriend and then, after accepting the money, beat her up and went to jail.

The other failed an FBI polygraph test while working on an undercover investigation, which one former FBI agent says should have disqualified him from ever working for the government again. Oh, and he was also once charged with roughing up a woman.

In fact, the trial was so bizarre the Judge allowed a self-admitted neo-conservative and former Reagan administration official on the stand. His name was Raymond Tanter and his participation in the trial remains exemplary of the political nature of the case.

He testified that "the Liberty City defendants were dangerous terrorists who, in part because of their extreme poverty, had reached the "jihadization" stage."

What makes it even stranger is that Tanter himself promotes a terrorist organization called the MEK (Mujahedin-e Khalq) that is opposed to the Iranian government. As a founding member of the Iran Policy Committee he has urged Washington to remove the MEK from the terrorist list and back it for "regime change" in Iran.http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/3278.html

I didn't know any of that, thank you for the info.

Just as well they have a jury trial.

 

[Dr Grump]

The record speaks for itself and cannot be ignored. The US and Israel have consistently voted against a two state settlement in the past. The international community has consistently supported, for the past quarter-century, the "two-state" settlement: that is, the full Israeli withdrawal/full Arab recognition formula as well as the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

The United States cast the lone veto of Security Council resolutions in January 1976 and April 1980 affirming the two-state settlement that were endorsed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and neighboring Arab states.

In December, 1989 the General Assembly resolution along similar lines passed 151-3. There were no abstentions and the three negative votes cast by Israel, the United States, and Dominica.

Israel set as a crucial precondition for negotiations that Palestinians "must drop their traditional demand" for "international arbitration" or a "Security Council mechanism.

The United States actually used to be on the side of the Palestinians. The Nixon-Kisisnger era began the turnaround towards a more pro-Israeli approach.

So what is your solution? The Israelis (with good reason) don't trust the arabs. The arabs don't seem to have the will (except Egypt and Jordan) to let Israel live in peace. I really don't see a solution to this. And until the Pals sort their own shit out (ie, who is running the place), I can't see it getting any better.

I see Israel as a place that arab dictators point to as the cause of all arabic problems in the world to keep their populations from thinking about their real lives and how it is the said dictators who are really the cause of their crappy existance. And make no mistake, most arabs do have a shitty existance.

 

[Dr Grump]

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli troops and armored vehicles crossed into southern Gaza early Wednesday in what the Israeli military said was an attempt to rescue a soldier kidnapped by Palestinian militants.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/27/israel.soldier/index.html

That answer your question?

It was rheotical, but thanks anyway..

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I didn't know any of that, thank you for the info.

Just as well they have a jury trial.

None of his post has anything to do with the TAPES they have and the admitted confesses the men were saying what the tapes have proven. The defense is not that the men tried to get money from Al Queda, the defense is " gee we were gonna rip off Al Queda". Sure that is believable. Maybe to a 5 year old, or a liberal enabler.

Do a little research yourself.

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh I think it's pretty damn relevant when you zionists keep acting like isrealis are wholly innocent and not at all active in perpetuating an awfully convenient cycle of violence.

I don't think anybody in the conflict is innocent, however I would label certain parties less responsible than others. I see Israel as less responsible. They rarely target civilians, yet you give Hizbollah and Hamas suicide bombers a free pass. As stated, can you name a Jewish suicide bomber of falafel joints?