No terrorists here

thankfully, REFUGEES are not CITIZENS (as noted above by an enabler) and are easily re-labeled TERRORIST.

It's funny.. you give the W admin no quarter about his collateral damage... but isreal?

:rofl:

oh look. I just made a funny.

Israel is defending itself. George invaded Iraq. Big difference,but being a Jew hater you give the Pals a free pass on everything. How many Gaza kebab outlets have been targetted by Jewish suicide bombers?

Oh look, I just made a funny..:rofl: :rofl:
 
It is unbelievable that the jury would have any trouble convicting these men.

Let's have Rayboy here telling us again how these guys are not being portrayed as victims by the left.



Yup and if we had caught the 19 men on September 10th the left and their lawyers would be making the same claim. " Gee they didn't actually do anything."

No it is not unbelievable. This is the second time the government has tried to pin a terrorist case on these men.

The first time, four jurors would not convict the men because they thought it was a scam. The government replaced the jury with another 12 heads and started the process all over again.

The FBI agents otherwise known as the the "two government informants" had backgrounds as snitches, liars and all around lowlifes. One extorted $7,000 from a friend who raped his girlfriend and then, after accepting the money, beat her up and went to jail.

The other failed an FBI polygraph test while working on an undercover investigation, which one former FBI agent says should have disqualified him from ever working for the government again. Oh, and he was also once charged with roughing up a woman.

In fact, the trial was so bizarre the Judge allowed a self-admitted neo-conservative and former Reagan administration official on the stand. His name was Raymond Tanter and his participation in the trial remains exemplary of the political nature of the case.

He testified that "the Liberty City defendants were dangerous terrorists who, in part because of their extreme poverty, had reached the "jihadization" stage."

What makes it even stranger is that Tanter himself promotes a terrorist organization called the MEK (Mujahedin-e Khalq) that is opposed to the Iranian government. As a founding member of the Iran Policy Committee he has urged Washington to remove the MEK from the terrorist list and back it for "regime change" in Iran.http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/3278.html

Try doing your research, otherwise others will characterize you as a poster long on hyperbole and short on substance.
 
Israel does not deliberately target civilians. Hizbollah does.

In which way?

Because there are many documented cases of that being the case. It all depends how the case is framed.

Not to mention, Israel is currently occupying Palestinian territory. Last time I checked occupying and ruling a people who do not want you in their lands seems deliberate and calculated to me.
 
In which way?

Because there are many documented cases of that being the case. Not to mention, Israel is currently occupying Palestinian territory.

Last time I checked occupying and ruling a people who do not want you in their lands seems deliberate and calculated to me.

Why is Israel occupying Palestinian territory?
 
No, the how, when and where is a central plank to the argument. Maybe back in 1948 the arabs living there should have accepted the deal...

I do not know what 'deal' you are referring to. Be specific.

Syria, Jordan and Egypt, I believe, invaded Palestine. Those countries proceeded to unleash brutal treatment of the Palestinians. The consortium of Arab States then used Palestine as a staging point in what they argued was a justified pre-emptive strike against Israel.

Palestine got caught in the middle and now they are fighting for, what Palestinains see, as their liberty against their Israeli overlords.

Either way, it is deliberate in every sense of the term. According to the leading academics who have studied the issue and have a lot more creditability to speak on the matter than you or I, it is a brutal violent occupation.

Yet it is but one rather large example of Israel specifically targeting civilians.
 
I am not applying any sort of double standard.

Really?

While causing 1,000 civilian deaths? Nope, not proportional. Sorry thats not how int'l law works.

1,000 civilian deaths caused by Hezbollah hiding like little girls behind women and children and installing their missiles and terrorists in civilan areas.

Hezbollah wouldn't let them leave? Leave where? When?

Leave the area where the missiles were situated. Not optimum, but better than dying. But Hezbollah wanted a show so wouldn't let the civilians leave.

That definition of proportional response is moronic. Call me arrogant all you want, you have no idea about int'l law if you think thats the definition of proportional.

I think Israel has the right to stop missiles from hitting its cities.

And really...you basically called me racist, anti-semitic and accused me of supporting genocide. So yes I'll call you stupid and if you don't like it you can shove it up your ass.

I called you no such thing. But that doesn't excuse the lack of tolerance for Israel defending itself and requiring it to live up to standards not asked of any other country.

Depends on a lot of things, but its NOT starting a war against an uninvolved state killing 1,000 civilians.

Uninvolved??? How is Lebanon uninvolved when it couldn't control its terrorists?

Nice little lie there. Hezbollah fired those rockets into Israel After Israel invaded Lebanon . By your asinine reasoning they were just practicing defense and all that was justified.

Why did Hezbollah have 200 missiles to fire into Israel? Not a lie... just pointing out..it's not like Israel was beating up on some poor little guy who couldn't fight back. And, I'd remind you that Israel wouldn't have needed to take any action but for missiles being fired from Lebanon into it's cities.

LMAO. No, it hasn't shown restraint. Congratulations Israel you didn't try to commit genocide. That really impresses me. Do you congratulate Burma too because they haven't committed genocide? How about the Chinese in Tibet? What a wonderfully low standard. Oh right...that is only for Israel though. I forgot.



They wouldn't have been "obliterated", no.

Absolutely they would have been obliterated. Even today the pals say they want the jews in the sea.

Then you are an idiot. I challenged you to provide something that supported such asinine assertions like I want Israel to be subjugated by the Arabs. You skipped that one over...gee I wonder why.

Israel is in danger of being destroyed?

What?

Israel has one of the best militaries in the world, is the only regional power with nukes, and has the support of the worlds only superpower.

Yes, I'm sure they are quaking in their boots.

How long do you think Israel could sustain fighting a major war with hand-to-hand combat where it's full military reserves got called up?

And,yes, they have been restrained.
 
I do not know what 'deal' you are referring to. Be specific.

Syria, Jordan and Egypt, I believe, invaded Palestine. Those countries proceeded to unleash brutal treatment of the Palestinians. The consortium of Arab States then used Palestine as a staging point in what they argued was a justified pre-emptive strike against Israel.

Palestine got caught in the middle and now they are fighting for, what Palestinains see, as their liberty.

Either way, it is deliberate in every sense of the term. It is a brutal occupation according to leading academic who have studied the issue and have a lot more creditibility to speak on the matter than you or I. Yet is but one rather large example of Israel specifically targeting civilians.

The Pals have been caught in the middle in the past. Now, they are the masters of their own destiny. They can't even get along when given freedom with Hamas controlling one part of their territory and Fatah the other.

If the arab world could guarantee Israel would be left alone, maybe the Jews would be a little more lenient. Thing is, they can't afford to be. An arab nation loses a war, the Jews take small parts of land and then, on occasion, give it back (such as Gaza and most of the West Bank to the Pals, and the Sinai to Egypt) and some they keep (the Golan Heights). The Jews lose a war, Israel will not exist any more. Also, it is not lost on me that Israel is a democracy. I know the arab mindset is different and people shouldn't judge how they live their lives by the way us Western nations do, however, what happens there does have an impact on the Jewish nation.
 
It is unbelievable that the jury would have any trouble convicting these men. Tapes of their attempts to get money, training and plans to attack targets are numerous.

Let's have Rayboy here telling us again how these guys are not being portrayed as victims by the left.



Yup and if we had caught the 19 men on September 10th the left and their lawyers would be making the same claim. " Gee they didn't actually do anything."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080411/ap_on_re_us/terrorism_investigation


How is this case going? Any updates?
 
The Pals have been caught in the middle in the past. Now, they are the masters of their own destiny

If the arab world could guarantee Israel would be left alone, maybe the Jews would be a little more lenient. Thing is, they can't afford to be. An arab nation loses a war, the Jews take small parts of land and then, on occasion, give it back (such as Gaza and most of the West Bank to the Pals, and the Sinai to Egypt) and some they keep (the Golan Heights). The Jews lose a war, Israel will not exist any more.

Based on what I have read. I do not think they are 'masters of their own destiny'. Not at all.

Rather, Israel has done everything in their power to drive out the indigenous people (Palestinians) who lived in the region. Outsiders coveting someone else's country is not sui generis.
 
Based on what I have read. I do not think they are 'masters of their own destiny'. Not at all.

Rather, Israel has done everything in their power to drive out the indigenous people (Palestinians) who lived in the region. Outsiders coveting someone else's country is not sui generis.

Absolutely they are the masters of their own destiny. I agree that Israel has driven out some Palestinians, but their arab brothers have hardly been welcoming to them either. Mind you, they did try and take over Jordan, which didn't go down too well.

You think the Pals hold any responsibility for anything that has happened to them? Their leadership can definitely take some responsibility, especially Yassar Arafat.
 
Go fuck yourself. I am NOT racist and I do NOT hate Israel. Judaism is the only religion I've ever considered becoming, and I would love to live in Israel for a time. That doesn't mean they get a pass when they commit HR violations.

HR violations tend to depend on your point of view. From their point of view, anything that protects their country is okay.

Congratulations, your Jewish. Identify with Israel. But don't you fucking dare think that because someone dares to criticize them they are racist. Yes, I criticize Israel. Yes, I criticize the PA. Yes I critize America. Yes I criticize China. OMG...I must hate the world, or some tired old bullshit like that.

So, you're saying you're an egotistical asshole that knows better then the ENTIRE world. :clap2:


I challenge you to give me ONE quote that I have EVER said on this board that said that Israel should be subjugated by the Arabs. Otherwise I'd ask for an apology and a retraction.

In fact, I've said the EXACT opposite. What don't you get about me saying I support Israel having autonomous and defensible borders AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T FUCK OVER EVERYONE ELSE???. Yes, we all know you have a horse in the race. Thats why you suddely turn into a banshee. I, however, don't. I am interested in a peaceful settlement that is *omg* FAIR. For BOTH sides.

As far as the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular are concerned, they've been fucked over. Guess what, when countries look out for their own interests, it usually means they're fucking over someone. Once again, we're back to a certain point of view for things. You aren't going to make everyone happy, so might as well look out for your own.
 
Absolutely they are the masters of their own destiny. I agree that Israel has driven out some Palestinians, but their arab brothers have hardly been welcoming to them either. Mind you, they did try and take over Jordan, which didn't go down too well.

You think the Pals hold any responsibility for anything that has happened to them? Their leadership can definitely take some responsibility, especially Yassar Arafat.

I just do not think so. They are faced against a nation of such vast military superiority it's hard for me to believe they control much except what little form of resistance they currently employ.

Also, the record speaks for itself and it cannot be ignored. The US and Israel have consistently voted against a two state settlement in the past.


I do not know what you mean by "responsibility"... responsibility for what?
 
Israel is defending itself. George invaded Iraq. Big difference,but being a Jew hater you give the Pals a free pass on everything. How many Gaza kebab outlets have been targetted by Jewish suicide bombers?

Oh look, I just made a funny..:rofl: :rofl:


Actually, from the pal perspective, isreal INVADED them too. so, no, there is no big difference. You choose to act like a W sticker neocon in THIS conflict because you identify with israel more than you do republicans. However, your capacity to rationalize how you think an insurgent INDIGENOUS population should react rather than ARE reacting cripples your ability to do anything more than toss out the same ole zionist (tm) bullshit. You might as well have just said "cut and run democrat".

and not so much funny as stupid. Maybe next time slugger.
 
I just do not think so. They are faced against a nation of such vast military superiority it's hard for me to believe they control much except what little form of resistance they currently employ.

Also, the record speaks for itself and it cannot be ignored. The US and Israel have consistently voted against a two state settlement in the past.

I do not know what you mean by "responsibility"... responsibility for what?

Israel and the US have voted against a two state solution? ER... last I heard, there was a deal and Arafat said he couldn't sign off on it because he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

So, who's two-state solution?
 
I just do not think so. They are faced against a nation of such vast military superiority it's hard for me to believe they control much except what little form of resistance they currently employ.

Also, the record speaks for itself and it cannot be ignored. The US and Israel have consistently voted against a two state settlement in the past.

I do not know what you mean by "responsibility"... responsibility for what?

HhHmmmmm...I honestly think that Israel does want a two-state system or else they would not have given up the Gaza and most of the West Bank. The only real sticking point is Jerusalem. I think it should be an international city on the auspices of the UN.

Leadership can take responsibility for the mess the Pals are in. Arafat put a fair share of the aid money meant for his people into French and Swiss bank accounts. Of course, the problem he had was that if he did try and make peace he'd have ended up like Rabin.
 
Really? Read Shogie's posts...I have never once seen him criticise Hezbollah...

You wouldn't acknowledge as much if you DID see it. Hell, between the both of us Im the only one with a record of citing sources anyway.


you know.. like those havens of jew hatred like wiki, news sources including the fucking Jpost for christs sake, .edu, etc...


yes. you are the avatar of comprehension!
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top