No terrorists here

[jillian]

AI dislikes almost every country in the world. Why are you taking up their case against Israel and not their case against: Syria, Jordan, Saudi, USA, Name an African Country, Name an Asian Country, Australia, yadda, yadda, yadda...

I never thought of it that way. lol... I feel much better.

 

[Larkinn]

Yeah, but I know the history of the place and have been there. Have you?

Oh, well that makes you not an armchair critic. Yes I know the history, no I haven't been there.

And those HR groups don't have an agenda do they?

Of course they do. Their agenda is generally to protect peoples human rights. If they found Hezbollah to be using civilians as shields, they would NOT defend them for that.

BTW, I agree that Israel often acts way OTT for my liking. To a degree they might have in this instance. What I'm sick of is people blaming them all the time.

Then what the fuck are you arguing with me for? Thats basically all I've said.

It's like somebody throws a punch and smacks me in the face and when I hit back they go crying to their mummy.

Not quite. Its more like someone throws a punch and then you massacre your entire family and THEN they go crying.

By the way...as someone is pointing out, why are you assuming that the conflicts always start with the Arabs? Thats not a completely pro-Israel way to see it or anything.

You can't do scissors, paper rock in a war zone Bucko. I mean, your solution is so pathetic and unattainable it borders on trolling.

Fabulous that my solution is pathetic and unattainable, considering I haven't provided any.

For example: Larrikin's world at the site of an Israeli rocket attack: (Best Peewee Herman voice). "Oh, so the naughty Hizbollah people fired a rocket into Israel and killed six Israelis. Oh, what do to! Oh, I know, how about you three guys...yes, you three in the IDF uniform...how about walking across the Lebanese border and walk up to some Hizbollah guys and ask them to come back. There is a condition though: You must only bring back six! And once you get them here, ask them to turn around and shoot them in the head. Now, remember boys, six and six only. It must be a proportional response.

This bullshit again?

Educate yourself as to what a proportional response is, and then come back to me. Its NOT an identical response. Its a proportional response.

 

[Larkinn]

You mean like Iraq?

Yup.

Oh, so it's OK for civilians to die as long as the UN sanctions it. Roger..

As I said, I am talking about int'l law, not morals.

 

[Larkinn]

You want to talk about AI? OK... fair enough. I used to have a monthly amount deducted from my bank account for AI. I believed in what they did. Then they started doing what you're doing and only talk about the poor palestinians without any discussion of their responsibility in this matter or what constitutes a fair resolution..... they also think it's ok for Israeli citizens to get blown up. But no worries, right?

Did you know that Walter Yetnikoff (who used to be head of SONY records) and Bruce Springsteen stopped talking over Bruce doing the AI tour? It's just an aside, and meaningless, I know. But most of us think on this issue AI should have at least made an effort to be evenhanded.

FWIW, I also specifically blame AI for a lot of the hostility toward Israel right now because people of good will actually believed them.

So any actual evidence or just more bullshit?

 

[Larkinn]

AI dislikes almost every country in the world. Why are you taking up their case against Israel and not their case against: Syria, Jordan, Saudi, USA, Name an African Country, Name an Asian Country, Australia, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Oh sorry. I forgot that on a thread about Israel I can't criticize Israel unless I also criticize tons of other countries. Nice standard there.

And I'm not "taking up their case" against Israel. People are making retarded arguments about how Israel is a saint. Its not. It does fucked up things. So do all of the other countries you listed. Only nobody bothers defending Syria, Jordan, Saudi. I criticize the US all the time. Nobody bothers defending Africa or Asia. And I criticize Australia as well. As well as NZ and their poor treatment of the Maoris.

 

[jillian]

So any actual evidence or just more bullshit?

It's not BS... it's about being fair brokers... something that apparently doesn't trouble people when dealing with Israel.

It's not just you, though. Probably when I was younger, and before I'd been to Israel, I'd have felt like you do. I've gotten a bit more realistic since then and a bit more concerned about the one-sidedness of this discussion.

Tell me, what do you think the palestinian responsibility is in this mess?

 

[Larkinn]

It's not BS... it's about being fair brokers... something that apparently doesn't trouble people when dealing with Israel.

Right...but still no evidence I see. Yes it would trouble me, if I saw it. Instead what I see is me criticizing Israel and everyone jumping on me and YOU inferring that I want all Israelis dead or some such bullshit.

It's not just you, though. Probably when I was younger, and before I'd been to Israel, I'd have felt like you do. I've gotten a bit more realistic since then and a bit more concerned about the one-sidedness of this discussion.

Right because once you have more of a connection to one side in an issue you are able to look at it more objectively.

As you said, you have a horse in the race. I don't. When looking at peoples needs and rights I look at BOTH sides, not just the Israelis.

Tell me, what do you think the palestinian responsibility is in this mess?

Quite a bit. But they have significantly less power to change than the Israelis do. Also its unclear what the "Palestinian" involves when looking at Palestinian responsibility. Is it the people? I'd say not much responsibility. Hamas? A lot of responsibility. The government? What government?

Whereas with Israel, the responsibility lies solely with the Israeli gov't, not with the people.

 

[Ravi]

It is unbelievable that the jury would have any trouble convicting these men. Tapes of their attempts to get money, training and plans to attack targets are numerous.

Let's have Rayboy here telling us again how these guys are not being portrayed as victims by the left.



Yup and if we had caught the 19 men on September 10th the left and their lawyers would be making the same claim. " Gee they didn't actually do anything."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080411/ap_on_re_us/terrorism_investigation

I think there is enough doubt with this group that they can't be judged guilty.

My guess is they were just playing along with the informant to collect the cash.

 

[Shogun]

Maybe you need to take a look at this....

http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=53564


You may have a new found respect for Jews...But I doubt it...

I'm well aware of the history of the area. Unfortunately for you, my posts are neither about mere respect or burning bush history lessons. Would the history of Germany validate the holocaust? How stupid would it be to suggest that a history of living on german soil validates human rights abuses?

You really are one trick pony, aren't you? You really are not all that impressive beyond hiding behind your kin entrenched in the Iraq war. Feel free to assume what you need to.

 

[Shogun]

I don't think anybody in the conflict is innocent, however I would label certain parties less responsible than others. I see Israel as less responsible. They rarely target civilians, yet you give Hizbollah and Hamas suicide bombers a free pass. As stated, can you name a Jewish suicide bomber of falafel joints?

OH well NO shit? you can fathom a DOUBLE STANDARD? Holy moses well as long as YOU think isreal is less responsible then I guess the rest of us are jew hating antisemites!

RARELY is a long way from NEVER. But hey, don't let that keep you from stretching the bullshit as thin as you need to. Hey, you probably cant name one single palestinian tank that has ever taken out a jewish settlement either. for that matter, you probably can't name a singe jew who knows what it is like to live on the other side of the apartheid wall either. Care to keep playing this game?

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

So what is your solution? The Israelis (with good reason) don't trust the arabs. The arabs don't seem to have the will (except Egypt and Jordan) to let Israel live in peace. I really don't see a solution to this. And until the Pals sort their own shit out (ie, who is running the place), I can't see it getting any better.

I see Israel as a place that arab dictators point to as the cause of all arabic problems in the world to keep their populations from thinking about their real lives and how it is the said dictators who are really the cause of their crappy existance. And make no mistake, most arabs do have a shitty existance.

I think it is rather obvious I have no creditability to offer any solution. Various accords, treatise or frameworks have been presented in the past. None, for whatever reasons each side offers, have come to fruition.

All I can do is research information and present all sides under a very old moral principle - to apply the same standards to one group as I would to another.

The rest of your post seems more political than I care to respond to.

 

[midcan5]

Here I thought this was one of those humor threads, you know like Bush joking, "no weapons of mass destruction here, no wmds here.... " while everyone laughs.

 

[midcan5]

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is a contributor to CounterPunch's book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

"Death to the Arabs!" Day of the Land, 32 Years Later

By Uri Avnery

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery03312008.html

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh sorry. I forgot that on a thread about Israel I can't criticize Israel unless I also criticize tons of other countries. Nice standard there.

And I'm not "taking up their case" against Israel. People are making retarded arguments about how Israel is a saint. Its not. It does fucked up things. So do all of the other countries you listed. Only nobody bothers defending Syria, Jordan, Saudi. I criticize the US all the time. Nobody bothers defending Africa or Asia. And I criticize Australia as well. As well as NZ and their poor treatment of the Maoris.

Just in case you didn't realise but if you are talking about Israel you have to mention the Pals and the other arab countries because they are inextricably linked. And if you don't think they are, then you are living in dreamland.

Oh, please do tell, how poorly the Maori have been treated. (BTW, the singular and plural for Maori is Maori. There is no 's' in the Maori alphabet)

 

[Dr Grump]

I think it is rather obvious I have no creditability to offer any solution. Various accords, treatise or frameworks have been presented in the past. None, for whatever reasons each side offers, have come to fruition.

All I can do is research information and present all sides under a very old moral principle - to apply the same standards to one group as I would to another.

The rest of your post seems more political than I care to respond to.

Kinda twee if you ask me. I mean, it's all nice and fluffy to apply that principle, but does nothing to alleviate the problems in the area

As for my post being political, the whole ISSUE is political.

 

[Diuretic]

Maori at least had a treaty - our indigenous folks didn't even get that

 

[Dr Grump]

Maori at least had a treaty - our indigenous folks didn't even get that

Larkin doesn't want to get me started on Maori and their "treatment"...He assumes that because they are an indigenous people that they are somehow automatically disadvantaged. Have bad things been done to the them in the past? Sure. But if he likes to talk about proportion, their "treatment" doesn't even compare to Africans, Aborigines and North and South American Indians.

 

[Ravi]

Kinda twee if you ask me. I mean, it's all nice and fluffy to apply that principle, but does nothing to alleviate the problems in the area

As for my post being political, the whole ISSUE is political.

What's twee mean?

 

[jillian]

What's twee mean?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twee

 

[Larkinn]

Just in case you didn't realise but if you are talking about Israel you have to mention the Pals and the other arab countries because they are inextricably linked. And if you don't think they are, then you are living in dreamland.

When talking about whether what Israel does is legal or not? Not quite, no.

Oh, please do tell, how poorly the Maori have been treated. (BTW, the singular and plural for Maori is Maori. There is no 's' in the Maori alphabet)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maori#1840_to_1890:_The_marginalisation_of_M.C4.81ori

Read about it. Don't you even know your own history?