No new taxes on the middle class?

[sealybobo]

This is very true. What other part of the world do "poor" people have cars, tvs, most times more than one and many times "rented" big screen tv's. Just ask a cop about that, how many times they see those tv's in the home of "poor" they end up in on a domestic. How many poor in other countries have free healthcare? Have food given their kids in schools, including breakfast. How many "poor" in other countries live in subsidized apartments built brand new with all the latest appliances brandy new too?

Oh there are real poor in this country, those who don't believe in handouts. But they are by far the minority.

poor is not making enough to save for retirement.

not having healtcare.

raising a family on $15 hr

not being able to own a home.

if you were scrimping and saving in the 90's to have a good life, now you are falling behind.

the economy only works when we are buying things. you can't have it both ways.

and this isn't most other countries. this is America.

and we don't begrudge anyone that is "the least bit successful". we begrudge the top 1 percnt getting an unfair tax break. especiallyduring war.

funny you begrudge poor ppl for not balancing their budgets yet bush grew they debt.

you are not getting ahead if you weigh everything out. and if you are, you aren't middle class. I you are, the economy needs you to start spending money.

funny bush promoted home ownership and look at what happened. why do you hate the middle lass?

you are mddle class.

its too much to explain when I know you won't get it.

stop swallowing that we hate rich ppl when it is they who look down on us.

they forgot how they got rich.

they say gov. made it difficult for them to get rich and then made it harder to get rich. and you bought
it?

no middle class person will start a business and take a chance because they changed the bankruptsy laws to make it too risky. then they made it easier for the rich to do it.

you guys really don't know allthe reasons why you are wrong and I don't think you ever will.

I hate you, because without you, the rich couldn't get away with it.

They will become nobles and kings if you continue to let them.

And stop crying about illegals ruining america and then defend foreign companies buying up america on the cheap.

war, doubling debt, cheap dollar, gas prices, etc.

it was hard to argue with conservatives in the 90's but not today.

 

[jreeves]

poor is not making enough to save for retirement.

not having healtcare.

raising a family on $15 hr

not being able to own a home.

if you were scrimping and saving in the 90's to have a good life, now you are falling behind.

the economy only works when we are buying things. you can't have it both ways.

and this isn't most other countries. this is America.

and we don't begrudge anyone that is "the least bit successful". we begrudge the top 1 percnt getting an unfair tax break. especiallyduring war.

funny you begrudge poor ppl for not balancing their budgets yet bush grew they debt.

you are not getting ahead if you weigh everything out. and if you are, you aren't middle class. I you are, the economy needs you to start spending money.

funny bush promoted home ownership and look at what happened. why do you hate the middle lass?

you are mddle class.

its too much to explain when I know you won't get it.

stop swallowing that we hate rich ppl when it is they who look down on us.

they forgot how they got rich.

they say gov. made it difficult for them to get rich and then made it harder to get rich. and you bought
it?

no middle class person will start a business and take a chance because they changed the bankruptsy laws to make it too risky. then they made it easier for the rich to do it.

you guys really don't know allthe reasons why you are wrong and I don't think you ever will.

I hate you, because without you, the rich couldn't get away with it.

They will become nobles and kings if you continue to let them.

And stop crying about illegals ruining america and then defend foreign companies buying up america on the cheap.

war, doubling debt, cheap dollar, gas prices, etc.

it was hard to argue with conservatives in the 90's but not today.

Republicans were in fact, pushing those policies since they controled both houses of Congress. Thanks for giving Republicans there due....

Obama would in fact raise taxes on wage earners that earned more than $32,000, which he pledged not to do.....He lied


Talk about the 30's,40's the 1800's for that matter it doesn't change the fact he lied....

 

[Your Overlord]

Partisan Blather.

The highest rate is 35%

Go read book

right now yes
obamas/hillarys plan brings up the rate to 60 on those making over 200 G's/annually

listen to your candidates position

 

[sealybobo]

Presidential Hopefuls to Vote on Budget - TIME
Obama, D-Ill., and Clinton, D-N.Y., both promise to reverse Bush's tax cuts for wealthier taxpayers, but the Democratic budget they'll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more.

Across the Capitol, the House was to vote on a companion Democratic measure predicting larger surpluses while allowing $683 billion worth of tax increases over five years with the expiration of Bush's tax cuts.
A Republican alternative that largely mirrored a plan by presumptive GOP nominee McCain of Arizona to permanently extend Bush's tax cuts and eliminate the alternative minimum tax was expected to fail badly, with party moderates distancing themselves from the GOP plan's huge cuts in popular programs like Medicare, housing, community development, and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled. Such cuts were needed to make room for big tax cuts and still project a balanced budget.


Obama is full of BS, I will raise taxes on the wealthy, while he will vote for a tax increase on people making 31,850 or more. I guess he just redefined the wealthy....

This is great news! Since you claim Obama is a liar, this can only mean he will not raise taxes.

And if he is telling the truth, how refreshing.

And, why would he say this 3 months before an election?

 

[Ravi]

right now yes
obamas/hillarys plan brings up the rate to 60 on those making over 200 G's/annually

listen to your candidates position

60%? That's not true at all.

 

[sealybobo]

right now yes
obamas/hillarys plan brings up the rate to 60 on those making over 200 G's/annually

listen to your candidates position

Hey, they don't care about us so why should we care if Obama sticks it to them... Your lying/wrong anyways. Go to Obamas site and see.

And, your side has lied for 8 yrs. Why would we believe you now?

You want to fool us into voting gop again? Good luck.

 

[Gunny]

Hey, they don't care about us so why should we care if Obama sticks it to them... Your lying/wrong anyways. Go to Obamas site and see.

And, your side has lied for 8 yrs. Why would we believe you now?

You want to fool us into voting gop again? Good luck.

Wow. You follow an unsubstantiated allegation with your own unsubstantiated allegations.

Both sides are comprised of politicians, They ALL lie. Not just one side or the other.

It doesn't take anyone to make a fool of you. That's the one thing you actually seem to be an expert on.

 

[jreeves]

This is great news! Since you claim Obama is a liar, this can only mean he will not raise taxes.

And if he is telling the truth, how refreshing.

And, why would he say this 3 months before an election?

Would you like more sources? Never mind, facts don't cure schizophrenia....

 

[Charles_Main]

All of the industrialized world, many that we think of as third-world nations, too.

But there are about one billion people trying to live on about a dollar a day. They're not poor they're destitute.

Seriously, the UN actually differentiates degrees of poverty because there are so many different levels of it.




Yeah, they're experts on that kind of thing, I'm sure. Cops are a sort of cross between social worker and forensic accountant, when they're not fighting crime.




All of them in Europe. Many of them in South America and Asia, too. You really haven't kept up with how the world has changed, have you?



Most of them.



Most of them.



Yeah, I don't doubt that for a moment.

What? lol

Poor people in Africa for example do not live in nice apartments with new stuff in them, or drive cars or own TV's. They live in huts if they are lucky, and walk to the nearest watering hole, Hoping their is water in it.

Yet another set of shocking statements from a very delusional individual. sorry I do not mean to throw around insults but these statements are patently insane.

 

[sealybobo]

Wow. You follow an unsubstantiated allegation with your own unsubstantiated allegations.

Both sides are comprised of politicians, They ALL lie. Not just one side or the other.

It doesn't take anyone to make a fool of you. That's the one thing you actually seem to be an expert on.

Then why do you vote?

I post about gop lies.

Thank you for agreeing with me the GOP lies.

And if they lie, and you admit they do, why do you come here and repeat their lies.

You can never take that back.

They lie, you defend them so therefore you are a liar. Thank you!

Keep talking..... I'm all ears.

 

[jreeves]

This is great news! Since you claim Obama is a liar, this can only mean he will not raise taxes.

And if he is telling the truth, how refreshing.

And, why would he say this 3 months before an election?

Has schizophrenia caused time displacement? This article was written in May, which would have been 6 months before the election......

 

[jreeves]

Then why do you vote?

I post about gop lies.

Thank you for agreeing with me the GOP lies.

And if they lie, and you admit they do, why do you come here and repeat their lies.

You can never take that back.

They lie, you defend them so therefore you are a liar. Thank you!

Keep talking..... I'm all ears.

The expert schizophrenic has spoken.....Lmao....

 

[Charles_Main]

Then why do you vote?

I post about gop lies.

Thank you for agreeing with me the GOP lies.

And if they lie, and you admit they do, why do you come here and repeat their lies.

You can never take that back.

They lie, you defend them so therefore you are a liar. Thank you!

Keep talking..... I'm all ears.

At least he can admit the republicans lie, Unlike you who wants us all to think Democrats are saints and the answer to all our problems.

 

[sealybobo]

At least he can admit the republicans lie, Unlike you who wants us all to think Democrats are saints and the answer to all our problems.

The GOP ruled government from 2000-2006. Next year, and for the next 4 years, you will get the opportunity to prove that the Democrats can't lead. Until then, lets stay focused on what the GOP did when they were in power.


Reagan, like George W. Bush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organization is called government.

But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.

Let the corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.

This is the exact opposite of the vision for which the Founders of this nation fought and died. When Thomas Jefferson changed John Locke's "Life, liberty, and private property" to "Live, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," it was the first time in the history of the world that a newly founded nation had written the word "happiness" into its founding document. The phrase "promote the general welfare" - another revolutionary concept - first appeared in the preamble to our Constitution in 1787.

Talk show cons and TV talking head cons and political cons - both Republican and DLC Democratic - repeat the mantra of "smaller government," and Americans nod their heads in agreement, not realizing the hidden agenda at work.

Reagan was the first American president to actually preach that his own job was a bad thing. He once said, "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." One can only assume he was speaking of himself and his fellow Republicans, and certainly the current Congress's devotion to the interests of inherited wealth and large corporations displays how badly his philosophy has corrupted a role so noble it drew idealists like Jefferson, Lincoln, and the two Roosevelts.

But cons can't imagine anybody wanting to devote their lives to the service of their nation. The highest calling in their minds is to make profit.

As Reagan said: "The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them away."

This mind-set - that the only purpose for service in government is to set up the interests of business - may account for why not a single military-eligible member of the Bush or Cheney families has enlisted in their parents' "Noble Cause," whereas all four sons of Franklin Roosevelt joined and each was decorated - on merit - for bravery in the deadly conflict of World War II.

There are, after all, no reasons in the conservative worldview for government service other than self-enrichment. As Ronald Reagan said: "Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed there are many rewards, if you disgrace yourself you can always write a book."

What they don't say is that the reason they want to remove government in its protective capacity is because they can then make an enormous amount of money, and have a lot of control over people's lives, when they privatize former governmental functions. They want a power vacuum, so corporations and the rich can step in. And with no limits on the inheritability of riches after the "death tax" is ended, wealth vast enough to take over the government can emerge.

Given this conservative world-view, it shouldn't surprise us that in 2001 George W. Bush appointed his 2000 presidential campaign manager (Joseph Albaugh) as head of FEMA, or that two years later Albaugh would have left FEMA to start a consulting firm to marry corporations with Iraq "reconstruction" federal dollars, and put in charge of FEMA his assistant (and old college roommate), an equally unqualified former failed executive with the International Arabian Horse Association.

It also shouldn't surprise us that although Dick Cheney has stayed on vacation in Wyoming through all of this, his company, Halliburton, has already obtained a multi-million-dollar contract to profit from Hurricane Katrina's cleanup.

It's not that these conservatives are incompetent or stupid. When their interests are at stake, they can be very efficient. Consider when Hurricane Charley hit Jeb Bush's state - a year earlier than Katrina - on the second weekend of August, 2004, just months before the elections. The White House website notes:

As of noon Monday [the day after the hurricane left], in response to Hurricane Frances, FEMA and other Federal response agencies have taken the following actions:

-- About one hundred trucks of water and 280 trucks of ice are present or will arrive in the Jacksonville staging area today. 900,000 Meals-Ready-to-Eat are on site in Jacksonville, ready to be distributed.

-- Over 7,000 cases of food (e.g., vegetables, fruits, cheese, ham, and turkey) are scheduled to arrive in Winter Haven today. Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMAT) are on the ground and setting up comfort stations. FEMA community relations personnel will coordinate with DMATs to assist victims. -- Urban Search and Rescue Teams are completing reconnaissance missions in coordination with state officials.

-- FEMA is coordinating with the Department of Energy and the state to ensure that necessary fuel supplies can be distributed throughout the state, with a special focus on hospitals and other emergency facilities that are running on generators.

-- The Army Corps of Engineers will soon begin its efforts to provide tarps to tens of thousands of owners of homes and buildings that have seen damage to their roofs.

-- The National Guard has called up 4,100 troops in Florida, as well as thousands in other nearby states to assist in the distribution of supplies and in preparation for any flooding.

-- The Departments of Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and Defense together have organized 300 medical personnel to be on standby. Medical personnel will begin deployment to Florida tomorrow.

-- FEMA is coordinating public information messages with Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina so that evacuees from Florida can be informed when it is safe to return. -- In addition to federal personnel already in place to respond to Hurricane Charley, 1,000 additional community relations personnel are being deployed to Atlanta for training and further assignment in Florida.



All of this aid was vitally important to Bush family political fortunes in the upcoming election of 2004. Disaster relief checks were in the mail within a week. In just the first thirteen days after Hurricane Charley hit Florida, the White House web site notes that the Bush administration had succeeded in:

-- Registering approximately 136,000 assistance applicants
-- Approving over 13,500 applications for more than $59 million in housing assistance

-- Establishing 12 disaster recovery centers, which have assisted nearly 19,000 disaster victims

-- Deploying medical teams that have seen nearly 3,000 patients

-- Disbursing 1.2 million liters of water, 8.1 million pounds of ice, and 2 million meals and snacks

-- Delivering over 20,000 rolls of plastic sheeting and nearly 170 generators

-- Treating more than 2,900 individuals through FEMA Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, supporting damaged hospitals

That, of course, was for a Republican State, with a Republican governor, the crony brother of the President. Republicans needed to act like they cared about governing, because they wanted people to vote for them three months later.

But now, with no election looming and with death stalking a Democratic State with a Democratic Governor unrelated to the President, we once again see the Reagan philosophy held ascendant. Bush's call to action? "Send cash to the Red Cross." One of those "thousand points of light" non-governmental organizations his father told us about.

As Brian Gurney, a listener from California, noted: "You can't govern if you don't believe in government."

But you sure can make a buck, and take care of your brother, your campaign manager, and your vice president's company.

 

[sealybobo]

Presidential Hopefuls to Vote on Budget - TIME
Obama, D-Ill., and Clinton, D-N.Y., both promise to reverse Bush's tax cuts for wealthier taxpayers, but the Democratic budget they'll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more.

Across the Capitol, the House was to vote on a companion Democratic measure predicting larger surpluses while allowing $683 billion worth of tax increases over five years with the expiration of Bush's tax cuts.
A Republican alternative that largely mirrored a plan by presumptive GOP nominee McCain of Arizona to permanently extend Bush's tax cuts and eliminate the alternative minimum tax was expected to fail badly, with party moderates distancing themselves from the GOP plan's huge cuts in popular programs like Medicare, housing, community development, and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled. Such cuts were needed to make room for big tax cuts and still project a balanced budget.


Obama is full of BS, I will raise taxes on the wealthy, while he will vote for a tax increase on people making 31,850 or more. I guess he just redefined the wealthy....

I want to hear you argue with this billionaire.

Did you see this?

In a meeting with President George W. Bush and a group of Wall Street executives several years ago, he reportedly stunned the new president by questioning the wisdom - and morality - of the administration’s tax cuts.

“I said, ‘Sir, as I look at these fat cats around this table, I wonder about the morality of what we’re doing here - because while we’re getting tax cuts, our kids are going to get huge tax increases, because of our largesse,’ ” as Peterson tells it, going on to talk about how tax cuts without spending cuts are simply a deferred tax increase on coming generations.


Billionaire Peter G. Peterson evangelizes about perils of debt with ‘I.O.U.S.A.’ | Muckety.com - See the news

 

[jreeves]

I want to hear you argue with this billionaire.

Did you see this?

In a meeting with President George W. Bush and a group of Wall Street executives several years ago, he reportedly stunned the new president by questioning the wisdom - and morality - of the administration’s tax cuts.

“I said, ‘Sir, as I look at these fat cats around this table, I wonder about the morality of what we’re doing here - because while we’re getting tax cuts, our kids are going to get huge tax increases, because of our largesse,’ ” as Peterson tells it, going on to talk about how tax cuts without spending cuts are simply a deferred tax increase on coming generations.


Billionaire Peter G. Peterson evangelizes about perils of debt with ‘I.O.U.S.A.’ | Muckety.com - See the news

Did you daydream this encounter, in delusionary land?

 

[sealybobo]

Presidential Hopefuls to Vote on Budget - TIME
Obama, D-Ill., and Clinton, D-N.Y., both promise to reverse Bush's tax cuts for wealthier taxpayers, but the Democratic budget they'll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more.

Across the Capitol, the House was to vote on a companion Democratic measure predicting larger surpluses while allowing $683 billion worth of tax increases over five years with the expiration of Bush's tax cuts.
A Republican alternative that largely mirrored a plan by presumptive GOP nominee McCain of Arizona to permanently extend Bush's tax cuts and eliminate the alternative minimum tax was expected to fail badly, with party moderates distancing themselves from the GOP plan's huge cuts in popular programs like Medicare, housing, community development, and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled. Such cuts were needed to make room for big tax cuts and still project a balanced budget.


Obama is full of BS, I will raise taxes on the wealthy, while he will vote for a tax increase on people making 31,850 or more. I guess he just redefined the wealthy....

McCain's Small-Business Bunk
He claims 23 million small-business owners would pay higher tax rates under Obama. He's wrong. The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut.
Factcheck.org: McCain's Small-Business Bunk | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

 

[sealybobo]

Just some highlights from the article:

Obama's tax proposal would raise rates only on couples making more than $250,000 or singles earning more than $200,000.

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers referred us to a press release by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which refers to "23 million small business owners" without citing a source. That is actually an outdated count of all the businesses in the United States

McCain is counting mostly "business owners" with no workers, including those who simply report small amounts of income from sideline or freelance work. McCain is arguing that Obama's tax increase would "destroy jobs," but he's counting mostly firms that don't produce any.

That in itself is seriously misleading.

 

[editec]

I see the BIG LIE technique still has a lot of traction.

The middle class is eroding, the working poor getting poorer by leaps and bounds, the flat out poor are thrown to the wolves, and all some of you folks care about is are the superwealthy super wealthy enough.

Do you not understand that without a viable middle class, one capable of paying its bills, and providing for its future, that this society becomes just another banana republic in a gneration or two?

do you not understand that bankrupting the Federal and state governments (which is what our policies and our tax codes are doing) spells the end of that class, and with the death of that class, the death of the finest, most just, and once the most affluent democractic republic in human history?

Do you not understand that the middle class (the one the superwealthy fought so damned hard to prevent from becoming) is the goose which lays the golden eggs which made all of us so wealthy, and that that middle class depends on having governments which are no less a part of this nation than the corporations you all so admire?

Apprently not.

Apparently some of you are so angry that the destitude are not starving on the streets that you are willing to destroy the nation's system of governments which help your parents raise you in safety, pay for your educations, nurtured your families in relative peace, so that you selfish idiots could arrive at that happy place some of you currently enjoy.

There are damned fools who are liberals, (without doubt!) and there are damned fools who are conservatives, but the neo-conservative fools are no longer just amusing, they've become a menace to this Republic.

When misanthopes run society, civilization dies the death of 10,000 cuts.

 

[sealybobo]

I see the BIG LIE technique still has a lot of traction.

The middle class is eroding, the working poor getting poorer by leaps and bounds, the flat out poor are thrown to the wolves, and all some of you folks care about is are the superwealthy super wealthy enough.

Do you not understand that without a viable middle class, one capable of paying its bills, and providing for its future, that this society becomes just another banana republic in a gneration or two?

do you not understand that bankrupting the Federal and state governments (which is what our policies and our tax codes are doing) spells the end of that class, and with the death of that class, the death of the finest, most just, and once the most affluent democractic republic in human history?

Do you not understand that the middle class (the one the superwealthy fought so damned hard to prevent from becoming) is the goose which lays the golden eggs which made all of us so wealthy, and that that middle class depends on having governments which are no less a part of this nation than the corporations you all so admire?

Apprently not.

Apparently some of you are so angry that the destitude are not starving on the streets that you are willing to destroy the nation's system of governments which help your parents raise you in safety, pay for your educations, nurtured your families in relative peace, so that you selfish idiots could arrive at that happy place some of you currently enjoy.

There are damned fools who are liberals, (without doubt!) and there are damned fools who are conservatives, but the neo-conservative fools are no longer just amusing, they've become a menace to this Republic.

When misanthopes run society, civilization dies the death of 10,000 cuts.

What would have happened if not for FDR and the New Deal?

The New Deal was the title that President Franklin Roosevelt gave to a sequence of programs and promises he initiated between 1933 and 1938 with the goal of giving relief to the poor, reform of the financial system, and recovery of the economy during the Great Depression.