NeverTrump scores big victory in Washington State

[Kondor3]

...So they should jettison their principals to avoid losing control of the party...

Nope. This is not an Either-Or situation. The world works in more colors than simple black-and-white, yes?

They should wake-up and smell the coffee... specifically, that their constituency no longer emphasizes Conservatism to the same extent that they do.

When one is in danger of losing control, as we see in this case, it is best to effect Politics as art form, and compromise, in hopes of salvaging pieces of the old agenda.

...When you say that people in the Republican party should not stand firm on things they believe, and instead should compromise their beliefs for the sake of keeping the party.... When the party turns into a party of the common man, and wins.... but ends up destroying the entire country..... how is that victory?...

If you will not stand with The People, then there is no longer a place for you at the table.

...You say that we have a Populist Rebellion because the "will of the people" has been ignored. First, I don't even believe that. The people have gotten nearly everything they wanted, and it sucks. Like a toddler who demands cake and ice cream, and then complains at everyone because they are sick...

Your low opinion of The People is noted.

The way things are going now, sounds like you're going to need to found your own, or join the Libertarians; both of which have zero chance of influencing the future.

...So should we bow to the populist will of the people, so the Republican Party can win, even if those populist policies destroy the country, as populism has world wide?

The People are the sole reason you exist, politically.

You forgot that.

For far too long.

And now that negligence has caught up with you.

These are your consequences.

Enjoy.

 

[Andylusion]

...So they should jettison their principals to avoid losing control of the party...

Nope. This is not an Either-Or situation. The world works in more colors than simple black-and-white, yes?

They should wake-up and smell the coffee... specifically, that their constituency no longer emphasizes Conservatism to the same extent that they do.

When one is in danger of losing control, as we see in this case, it is best to effect Politics as art form, and compromise, in hopes of salvaging pieces of the old agenda.

...When you say that people in the Republican party should not stand firm on things they believe, and instead should compromise their beliefs for the sake of keeping the party.... When the party turns into a party of the common man, and wins.... but ends up destroying the entire country..... how is that victory?...

If you will not stand with The People, then there is no longer a place for you at the table.

...You say that we have a Populist Rebellion because the "will of the people" has been ignored. First, I don't even believe that. The people have gotten nearly everything they wanted, and it sucks. Like a toddler who demands cake and ice cream, and then complains at everyone because they are sick...

Your low opinion of The People is noted.

The way things are going now, sounds like you're going to need to found your own, or join the Libertarians; both of which have zero chance of influencing the future.

...So should we bow to the populist will of the people, so the Republican Party can win, even if those populist policies destroy the country, as populism has world wide?

The People are the sole reason you exist, politically.

You forgot that.

For far too long.

And now that negligence has caught up with you.

These are your consequences.

Enjoy.

Huh? What are you talking about?
Do you have any examples to back your claims?
Somehow I thought you were making a different claim than what you just outlined.

You are saying that the Republican party itself is holding to conservatism, when it's the public that has changed?

I don't think so.... not even close.

Expanding Unemployment compensation to 99 weeks, was a populist move, that was destructive to the economy.

Expanding Medicare with Part D, was a populist move that was destructive to the country.

Putting in place Steel and Wood tariffs on imports, was a populist move that would have been destructive if the WTO had not ruled it illegal, and jeopardized all of our trade.

No Child Left Behind, was a populist move, destructive to education.

Green-Energy spending, funding for HydroGen Cars and such, were a populist move, destructive to the country.

The Republican party has been more than willing to at any moment, at any turn, completely dump their support of traditional conservative values for the sake of political power.

I thought you were talking about people like me, who hold on to principals. But if you think the it's the Republican party, that is doing it, you are crazy. I want proof. You give me your direct examples of what you claim.

 

[Indeependent]

...I'm confused by this statement...

This will fix that.

...You say that people are obsessed with standing by their principles, while the party is being taken away...

Correct.

...I'm not sure what you mean by any of that...

This will fix that.

...or the idea that it's a party of the common man...

More like it is on the verge of becoming the Party of the Common Man.

...Are you suggesting people shouldn't be committed to principals?...

Nope.

But when they're so busy manifesting their resolve to stand by their principles that they lose control of their mechanism, that's over-doing it.

...And what does the party of the common man mean?...

If you don't understand that concept, you may be in over your head.

Specifically, in this case, the Party of the Common Man is the Republican Party of the distant past, before it was sold to the Corporatists during and after WWI.

...My view has always been that I would rather not have a party, than have a party that doesn't stand for what I believe. What's the point of having a party that wins, but wins only to do what I don't believe in? I'd rather lose. Losing really isn't all that bad. At least then I can say it wasn't someone I voted for that screwed everything up...

If you will not take a stand while acting out of belief, perhaps you should take a stand while contributing to Damage Control during such a crisis.

...How is being an accomplice in destruction, a positive just because your party won? ...

What destruction are you referring to, here?

...What are you trying to say here?

I am saying that we have been witnessing a Populist Rebellion on both sides of the aisle... Sanders on the Left, Trump on the Right.

Populist Rebellions have a way of getting out of control, as we have seen happen with the Republican Party primaries this year.

Rebellions happen because The Will of the People is ignored for far too long, until a mouthpiece and figurehead shows up, and leads the Timid Sheep back to their voices and courage.

If Trump gains the Presidency, he gains control of the Republican Party, and the present-day rich-bitch Ruling Elites will be at risk of being shoved aside..

That would leave the Common Folk in control of the Party for the first time in a century.

One pleasant and highly desirable outcome which might arise from a highly UNdesirable Trump presidency.

But, it's the Fate of Man, that he does not learn from his failures; consequently, the leadership of the GOP will continue down its age-old path of arrogance and ignoring their constituencies, to their very great political peril.

So they should jettison their principals to avoid losing control of the party.

Well if you support a party, so that your party wins.... even if they win by supporting policies that are destructive, how is that a win?

Years ago there was a guy I knew who wanted a Corvette. But he really didn't earn the money for such a car. His family gave him an ultimatum, and he kept the car. Lost his house, his wife, his kids, and ultimately the stress of his victory led him to lose his job, and then he ended up losing the car anyway.

But he won the victory of controlling his own life. He kept the corvette for as long as he could. No one was going to take it from him.

When you say that people in the Republican party should not stand firm on things they believe, and instead should compromise their beliefs for the sake of keeping the party.... When the party turns into a party of the common man, and wins.... but ends up destroying the entire country..... how is that victory?

You say that we have a Populist Rebellion because the "will of the people" has been ignored. First, I don't even believe that. The people have gotten nearly everything they wanted, and it sucks. Like a toddler who demands cake and ice cream, and then complains at everyone because they are sick.

So should we bow to the populist will of the people, so the Republican Party can win, even if those populist policies destroy the country, as populism has world wide?

Neither Party has principals.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Wow, brought this thread back from the dead to slam Trump on his poor little head.

Lol, total bullshit.

 

[Kondor3]

Huh? What are you talking about?...

The very fact that you do not comprehend those very readily understandable generalities speaks volumes regarding your inability to acknowledge change.

...Do you have any examples to back your claims?...

...You are saying that the Republican party itself is holding to conservatism, when it's the public that has changed?...

No... I am saying that the pre-Trump Republican Party leadership is holding to Conservatism, when it's their constituency that has changed its focus.

...I don't think so.... not even close....

The above graphs says you're wrong.

-------------------------

You drew the wrong conclusions and were focusing on the wrong component of the GOP; rendering the rest of your demands moot.

 

[Andylusion]

Huh? What are you talking about?...

The very fact that you do not comprehend those very readily understandable generalities speaks volumes regarding your inability to acknowledge change.

...Do you have any examples to back your claims?...

...You are saying that the Republican party itself is holding to conservatism, when it's the public that has changed?...

No... I am saying that the pre-Trump Republican Party leadership is holding to Conservatism, when it's their constituency that has changed its focus.

...I don't think so.... not even close....

The above graphs says you're wrong.

-------------------------

You drew the wrong conclusions and were focusing on the wrong component of the GOP; rendering the rest of your demands moot.

The graph you posted is not proof of anything. Yes, I get your claim now. You haven't shown any proof of that.

I listed specific policy examples, where the party completely ignored conservative principals, to advance a populist agenda for political gain.

I just remembered another one too. In 2008 during the crash, the Conservative Caucus voted against the bank bailout, in favor of a bank merge policy, where banks could more easily buy out troubled banks, with non-government funds. In other words, no bailout. The Republican Party rejected the Conservative Caucus, and killed the bill.

Just saying that my examples are moot, when they are directly relevant and contradictory to your claim, doesn't make logical sense.

If you can't backup your claims logically, then maybe you should re-think them.

 

[ninja007]

This symbolic gesture won't make a lick of difference, but I admire them for at least standing by their principles.

They are obsessed with standing by their principles while their party is being taken away from them and turned into a Party of the Common Man.

In a few years, the Pubs will be out-Democrat-ing the Democrats.

In some areas; anyway; and spanking LibTards in other areas.

I'm confused by this statement. You say that people are obsessed with standing by their principles, while the party is being taken away.

I'm not sure what you mean by any of that, or the idea that it's a party of the common man.

Are you suggesting people shouldn't be committed to principals? And what does the party of the common man mean?

My view has always been that I would rather not have a party, than have a party that doesn't stand for what I believe. What's the point of having a party that wins, but wins only to do what I don't believe in? I'd rather lose. Losing really isn't all that bad. At least then I can say it wasn't someone I voted for that screwed everything up.

How is being an accomplice in destruction, a positive just because your party won?

What are you trying to say here?

THREE WORDS- SUPREME COURT JUSTICES

 

[Kondor3]

...The graph you posted is not proof of anything. Yes, I get your claim now. You haven't shown any proof of that...

The assertion is that the Republican constituency has changed its focus, away from Conservatism, and towards Populism.

The graph demonstrates the extent to which that same constituency voted for a Populist candidate over any of several true Conservative candidates.

The graph is incontrovertible proof that the assertion is true.

Incontrovertible proof.

No re-thinking of the assertion is required.

It is established fact.

We're long-past spin-doctoring and wishful thinking and wistful longing for the past.

The assertion is now established Reality.

You are unable or unwilling to accept this new Reality, keep dancing around it, and forlornly keep trying to convince yourself and others that Reality is not Reality.

Unfortunate - but not my cross to bear.

I'm done here.

 

[amrchaos]

I think you have to accept the premise that the republican party has turned to popularism.