Must we thank (1) Jefferson’s God, or (2) Trump’s God or (3) no God or (4) or just the founders themselves

[elektra]

NFBW: I have knowledge of the indisputable fact that Jefferson’s adult lifetime of writings show no indication that Jefferson was a Christian who believed the Bible was the Word of God, or who believed in the divinity of Christ. END22100822158

Yet, here I am, using your source, Jeffersons letters, showing that Jefferson in private admits to a friend that he is a Christian.

You know for a fact? That Jefferson never wrote about being a Christian, yet you never read all his writings.

Bigot, yes once again you have judged and denigrated a person you know almost nothing about.

As far as me answering to stuff I posted in another thread, here. I say this. Make your comment in that ten year old thread so it is in proper context.

For now, I am enjoying showing your lack of knowledge, your ignorance, and bigotry. I really do not understand why you simply can not admit thst your google searches are a piss poor way to think and learn. Jefferson as a public figure is different than Jefferson the private man.

This will be the 2nd time I post this little phrase from a letter.

Jefferson states in a private letter to a friend tjat Jefferson is a Christian. Jefferson only expesses this in a letter because he wants it to be private, not public knowledge.

Jefferson is a Christian

To Doctor Benjamin Rush Washington, April 21, 1803... I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

 

[elektra]

You will hear more from me about exposing your fraud attempt in Post #152 because that is part of the reason why I started this thread. To expose white Christian Nationalist fraud about our rational theist and not Christian as Christian has been defined for centuries after centuries

Sure, but I am African American. My family is Africa American. Your bigotry makes you blind.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Sure, but I am African American. My family is Africa American. Your bigotry makes you blind.

NFBW: So you are a black Christian for the white Christian Nationalism movement believing America was founded by white Christians for all Christians - you are still wrong,

Anyone of any race or ethnic background can very easily support and contribute to the Christian nationalist fraud in America. It’s only a big deal white wise because white Supremacists are aligned with Christian nationalism and the Republican Party, but I suppose that is ok with you for some reason.

As you know Ginny Thomas is at the top of white Christian nationalist leadership because she is married to the black Justice on the Supreme Court who is the most extreme Christian nationalist ever to serve in that position.

It is not bigotry to point out the reality and the truth that most black Americans would never promote the idea that Jefferson was a good Christian because he treated his slaves nicely and knocked one up out of wedlock when Sally was in a difficult situation and unable to say no.

The black churches in this country produced MLK and I wonder what you think of his contribution to American progress. END2210091343

 

[Grumblenuts]

NFBW: So you are a black Christian for the white Christian Nationalism movement believing America was founded by white Christians for all Christians - you are still wrong,

Anyone of any race or ethnic background can very easily support and contribute to the Christian nationalist fraud in America. It’s only a big deal white wise because white Supremacists are aligned with Christian nationalism and the Republican Party, but I suppose that is ok with you for some reason.

Two-faced, hypocritical, and hopelessly conflicted on many accounts. Prone to flat out lie for the corporatocracy. Puns intended. And daily, if memory serves, prior to my finally just placing her(?) on ignore.

 

[themirrorthief]

I wonder, would Jefferson have aborted all those black slave babies he conceived?

democrats are desperate to legalize abortion because all those babies being born in the hood are really putting a strain on welfare funds needed to prop up the nazis in ukraine

 

[NotfooledbyW]

democrats are desperate to legalize abortion because all those babies being born in the hood are really putting a strain on welfare funds needed to prop up the nazis in ukraine

More like not wanting rightwing Christian state jackboots trampling on womens uteruses to make a false version of Jesus happy.

 

[BS Filter]

Why didn't Madison include abortion as a woman's right to choose?

 

[BS Filter]

More like not wanting rightwing Christian state jackboots trampling on womens uteruses to make a false version of Jesus happy.

So you have the true Jesus? Explain Him to me.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

you have the true Jesus? Explain Him to me

Jefferson’s Jesus in Jefferson’s words:

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.

 

[elektra]

NFBW: So you are a black Christian for the white Christian Nationalism movement believing America was founded by white Christians for all Christians - you are still wrong,

Anyone of any race or ethnic background can very easily support and contribute to the Christian nationalist fraud in America. It’s only a big deal white wise because white Supremacists are aligned with Christian nationalism and the Republican Party, but I suppose that is ok with you for some reason.

As you know Ginny Thomas is at the top of white Christian nationalist leadership because she is married to the black Justice on the Supreme Court who is the most extreme Christian nationalist ever to serve in that position.

It is not bigotry to point out the reality and the truth that most black Americans would never promote the idea that Jefferson was a good Christian because he treated his slaves nicely and knocked one up out of wedlock when Sally was in a difficult situation and unable to say no.

The black churches in this country produced MLK and I wonder what you think of his contribution to American progress. END2210091343

The Democrat party is the party that is the KKK, so much so that the Democrats year after year, voted to make a leader of the KKK thier leader.

For decades, Democrats voted the KKK Senator as thier leader.

And now the Democrats dictate who is racist, and the sheeple follow religously.

And you, think what you copy and paste, stuff you find with a democrat controlled search engine, is somehow reality.

The Black churches in this country created MLK? Fiction based on fact.

Jefferson and his slaves, you can dictate how most black people feel about Jefferson? Like you, most black people dont know Jefferson and how he treated his slaves. You have reduced a man's life to a few sentences selected with the democrat controlled google.

White Christian Nationalism, reverse racism. I have never heard this term until recently. Another way Democrats attack America. Label Trump voters as a group nobody would join.

All Democrat propaganda.

Your thread and yourself are pure bullshit.

This is Jefferson, which destroys your premise:


To Doctor Benjamin Rush Washington, April 21, 1803... I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

 

[elektra]

The only indisputable fact the notlyfool has shown, is pure political bias based on democrat google propaganda

I have knowledge of the indisputable fact that Jefferson’s adult lifetime of writings show no indication that Jefferson was a Christian who...



To Doctor Benjamin Rush Washington, April 21, 1803... I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

 

[elektra]

Jefferson’s Jesus in Jefferson’s words:

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.

That is not a description of Jesus. Not at all.

But you did post a fact that contradicts your propaganda and premise of your thread. Jefferson called himself a Christian and a disciple.

Yep, notfooled by anyone but a fool who proved his own premise to be false.

Beautiful

 

[NotfooledbyW]

This is Jefferson, which destroys your premise:


To Doctor Benjamin Rush Washington, April 21, 1803... I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

How does it destroy my premise. Jefferson says Jesus is human - like all of us - just human

 

[NotfooledbyW]

That is not a description of Jesus. Not at all.

NFBW: That is Jefferson’s description of Jesus which makes him a disciple of that Jesus. now you say it is not a description of Jesus which would make Jefferson not a Christian and not a disciple of your version of Jesus END2210091744

 

[AMart]

They were the Founding Fathers of the American nation who did not believe in any one of the revealed religions of Christianity known during their time, Does that help?

Name of Signer	State	Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll	Maryland	Catholic
Samuel Huntington	Connecticut	Congregationalist
Roger Sherman	Connecticut	Congregationalist
William Williams	Connecticut	Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott	Connecticut	Congregationalist
Lyman Hall	Georgia	Congregationalist
Samuel Adams	Massachusetts	Congregationalist
John Hancock	Massachusetts	Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett	New Hampshire	Congregationalist
William Whipple	New Hampshire	Congregationalist
William Ellery	Rhode Island	Congregationalist
John Adams	Massachusetts	Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine	Massachusetts	Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton	Georgia	Episcopalian
John Penn	North Carolina	Episcopalian
George Ross	Pennsylvania	Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr.	South Carolina	Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr.	South Carolina	Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton	South Carolina	Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge	South Carolina	Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee	Virginia	Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee	Virginia	Episcopalian
George Read	Delaware	Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney	Delaware	Episcopalian
Samuel Chase	Maryland	Episcopalian
William Paca	Maryland	Episcopalian
Thomas Stone	Maryland	Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry	Massachusetts	Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson	New Jersey	Episcopalian
Francis Lewis	New York	Episcopalian
Lewis Morris	New York	Episcopalian
William Hooper	North Carolina	Episcopalian
Robert Morris	Pennsylvania	Episcopalian
John Morton	Pennsylvania	Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins	Rhode Island	Episcopalian
Carter Braxton	Virginia	Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison	Virginia	Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr.	Virginia	Episcopalian
George Wythe	Virginia	Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson	Virginia	Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin	Pennsylvania	Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett	Georgia	Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson	Pennsylvania	Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes	North Carolina	Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer	Pennsylvania	Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean	Delaware	Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton	New Hampshire	Presbyterian
Abraham Clark	New Jersey	Presbyterian
John Hart	New Jersey	Presbyterian
Richard Stockton	New Jersey	Presbyterian
John Witherspoon	New Jersey	Presbyterian
William Floyd	New York	Presbyterian
Philip Livingston	New York	Presbyterian
James Smith	Pennsylvania	Presbyterian
George Taylor	Pennsylvania	Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush	Pennsylvania	Presbyterian

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The only indisputable fact the notlyfool has shown, is pure political bias based on democrat google propaganda

I have knowledge of the indisputable fact that Jefferson’s adult lifetime of writings show no indication that Jefferson was a Christian who..

NFBW: That is where elektra cut me off at mid-sentence because the full sentence is true. Here is the full statement;

NFBW: I have knowledge of the indisputable fact that Jefferson’s adult lifetime of writings show no indication that Jefferson was a Christian who believed the Bible was the Word of God, or who believed in the divinity of Christ. END22100822158

 

[NotfooledbyW]

John Adams

Massachusetts

Congregationalist; Unitarian

NFBW: As for John Adams we know from what he wrote that he did not believe in the revealed religion dogma of Congregationalists. This discussion is mostly about the inner religious minds of five of our first six presidents who were rational theists who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus or in the Bible as the Word of God. They rejected church teaching of original sin and salvation through the blood of Christ and the Resurrection.

I say they are not revealed religion Christians and therefore nothing of the essence of a Trump Christian these days.

What day you?

END2210091831

 

[AMart]

NFBW: As for John Adams we know from what he wrote that he did not believe in the revealed religion dogma of Congregationalists. This discussion is mostly about the inner religious minds of five of our first six presidents who were rational theists who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus or in the Bible as the Word of God. They rejected church teaching of original sin and salvation through the blood of Christ and the Resurrection.

I say they are not revealed religion Christians and therefore nothing of the essence of a Trump Christian these days.

What day you?

END2210091831

five of our first six presidents who were rational theists who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus or in the Bible as the Word of God.

Post exact quotes to back that up.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Post exact quotes to back that up.

NFBW: Washington is the place to start with observations by a contemporary and Doctor of Divinity

Prince Messiah's Claims to Dominion Over All Governments

The First Seven Rational Theist Presidents as recalled by Doctor of Divinity James R Wilson in 1832​

​

The convention that framed the National Constitution have done this. The United States Congress, Senate, and Executive, have been doing this, for more than forty-four years. They have thus dishonored Messiah the Prince, who is the friend of liberty; for he came to "proclaim Liberty to the captive, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound."​

​

These moral evils embodied in the doctrines of the fundamental law of the empire, have produced practical results, over which every true disciple of Christ, and Christian patriot, will mourn.​

​

1st. Ungodly men have occupied, and do now occupy, many of the official stations, in the government.[5] The clause of the Constitution, barring all moral qualifications, has not been a dead letter.​

​

There have been seven Presidents of the United States—and of each of them it may be said, as Jehovah says of the kings of Israel, after the revolt of the ten tribes, "He did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord."​

​

Washington was raised up, in the providence of God, . . .​

​

It is to the honor of the Protestant Religion, that this country produced such a man. . . . There is no satisfactory evidence that Washington was a professor of the Christian religion, or even a speculative believer in its divinity, before he retired from public life.[6] In no state paper, in no private letter, in no conversation, is he known to have declared himself a believer in the Holy Scriptures, as the word of God. . . . Is it probable that he was a true believer in Jesus Christ and his Bible, when in times so trying, and in a Christian nation, he wrote thousands of letters, and yet never uttered a word, from which it can be fairly inferred that he was a believer? . . . Rousseau, an avowed infidel, has said more in honor of Christ, than is known to have been uttered by Washington. . . . His Sabbaths were not spent as the "fearers of the Lord" enjoy that holy day.​

​

. . . . His death, as recorded by Dr. Ramsey, is much more like a Heathen Philosopher’s, than like that of a Saint of God. . . . . He was President of the convention, that voted the name of the living God out of the Constitution. . . . . While President, in Philadelphia, his habit was to arise and leave the church, when the Sacrament of the Supper was dispensed. . . . . . When the several classes of citizens, were addressing Washington, on his retirement from office, the clergy, who doubted his Christianity, resolved to frame an address, so that he could not evade, in his reply, an expression of his faith, if he were really a believer. He did, however, evade it, and the impression left on the mind of one of the clergy, at least, was that he was a Deist. . . . . Mr. Jefferson, affirms that Washington was a Deist. To be ashamed of Christ, which no one can reasonably doubt he was, is infidel. He did not set an example of godliness, before the nation, over which in the Providence of God, he was made President. . . . . The Cabinet which Gen. Washington chose, indicates that he was not a fearer of the Lord. Mr. Hamilton, his Secretary of the Treasury, was an unchaste man, and died by a duel. Mr. Jefferson, his Secretary of State, was an avowed infidel, who mocked at every thing sacred. You know men by their society. Among the members of the first Cabinet of the Federal Executive, vital godliness would have been mocked at as fanaticism. Which of the heads of departments prayed in his family daily? Which of them sanctified the Lord’s day, by abstaining from worldly conversation, company, and business?​

END2210092009

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Post exact quotes to back that up.

NFBW: For background and source see Post#179

There is no satisfactory evidence that Washington was a professor of the Christian religion, or even a speculative believer in its divinity, before he retired from public life.[6] In no state paper, in no private letter, in no conversation, is he known to have declared himself a believer in the Holy Scriptures, as the word of God. . . . The First Seven Rational Theist Presidents as recalled by Doctor of Divinity James R Wilson in 1832​

Why must I provide exact quotes from
Washington that he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ during his lifetime but you don’t require yourself to provide exact quotes that he did. END2210092109