Mother On the Lam For Right to Let Son Die

[Zoom-boing]

YOu've obviously never been around kids.

There are kids who will put kittens in the water bucket and watch them die (this was my nephew). THEY have no sense of morality. Kids who will encourage other kids to stick bobby pins into light sockets. (also my nephew).

Then there are kids, the same age, who will rescue said kittens. Those kids have a sense of morality. If they see a child doing something dangerous they will run to tell someone or try to help the kid.

It's a combination of innate personality and upbringing.

yeah, i keep mine in a compound until they achieve their majority.


you're priceless. and i say that in the most effete, elite, progressive secular humanist way possible.

3 year old with a sense of morality. i gotta write that down.

Oh, thank God I'm not the only one who does this!

 

[Shogun]

wow baba, you discovered the nature v nurture conundrum. I think you are shooting a bit wide of the target though.


and your take of the shiavo bit is a big steaming pile of shit. I bet the last person you'd want to see if someone in YOUR family was brain dead on life support would be sean hannity.

When you can speak English and make sense, get back to me.

Nice duck and dodge. Don't worry, smarter people that you understood exactly what I posted.

 

[jillian]

There are kids who will put kittens in the water bucket and watch them die (this was my nephew).

when children harm or kill animals it is generally considered one of the signs of sociopathy.

violent criminals
were more likely to have abused pets,
stray animals, wild animals and farm
animals when they were children.
The acts of abuse towards animals
were more than just kicking a dog. They
were cruel and often gruesome.
Examples include stomping a kitten to
death and setting a dog on fire. These
violent criminals rarely said they were
sorry or felt bad about hurting the
animals. In some cases, the type of
abuse they committed on animals was
like the acts they later committed on
people.

http://www.st-johns.org/services/pa...5/Children Who Hurt Animals Must Get Help.pdf

 

[Care4all]

I'm defending the parent's right to choose an alternative method of treatment. Were it me, I'd be doing both traditional and alternative. But it's not me and I don't believe the parent's are being negligent; they are opting for an alternative treatment. No I don't think they should be forced to go the chemo route if it goes against their beliefs.

you're defending them killing the kid because they SAY its their religious belief. But I've never known a Catholic who would refuse medicine on religious grounds.

if this were a chicken bone shaking voodoo mama would you be saying the same thing?

Again, why are the people who are defending this the same people who wouldn't let liquified brain Terry Schiavo go to her rest?

I'm serious.... I really don't understand.

No, I'm defending them being allowed to choose an alternative treatment. Yes he may die . . . or he may be cured. Yes the prognosis is very good with chemo but the parents want to pursue an alternative method. And that they are R.C., I'm sure they are praying. Is that bunk as well?

Catholicism doesn't forbid any kind of medical intervention but they also follow the Nemenhah Band that believes in natural healing methods.

The Hausers are Roman Catholic and also believe in the "do no harm" philosophy of the Nemenhah Band, a Missouri-based religious group that believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians.
The Associated Press: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

But it's not a shaking voodoo mama, it's an alternative, natural method.

I've never said anything about Terry Schaivo, sorry.

Jillian, I've gone rounds and rounds with doctors with my son and they all 'knew what was best' and were all 'best in the field' and they offered what they knew, which were meds. BTDT. Know what worked best for my son's rampant behavioral problems? A four year gluten-free diet. I had docs scoff at me and call it hogwash . . . but altering his diet and incorporating various supplements helped more than meds. Yes, I'm aware this situation is different; just trying to explain my POV. I have no doubt that my personal experience with my son over the past 16 years colors my point of view.

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

 

[Ravi]

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I think that is correct. Sounds like they are afraid of the chemo because in their minds chemo kills people.

It's amazing how wrong people can be.

 

[DiveCon]

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I think that is correct. Sounds like they are afraid of the chemo because in their minds chemo kills people.

It's amazing how wrong people can be.

you prove that all the time

you left it as an open shot, i couldnt resist

 

[Care4all]

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I think that is correct. Sounds like they are afraid of the chemo because in their minds chemo kills people.

It's amazing how wrong people can be.

the thing is though, chemo does kill people....not that these that die were not destine to die anyway, but chemo is a poison, a poison that kills cancer, but it kills good cells too and it is a delicate mixture of getting enough chemo to poison the cancer cells without killing you as well... they are much better at it now than they were in 1988 when my father in law had treatments....

IT IS SCARY.....perhaps the doctors may not have spent as much time as they should have with this mother and her crippling fears...they may not have recognized her paralyzing fears and she probably didn't open up enough either....

I just feel terrible for everyone involved and while debating this, with them on the run, this boy could be essentially getting a death sentence....

 

[DiveCon]

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I think that is correct. Sounds like they are afraid of the chemo because in their minds chemo kills people.

It's amazing how wrong people can be.

the thing is though, chemo does kill people....not that these that die were not destine to die anyway, but chemo is a poison, a poison that kills cancer, but it kills good cells too and it is a delicate mixture of getting enough chemo to poison the cancer cells without killing you as well... they are much better at it now than they were in 1988 when my father in law had treatments....

IT IS SCARY.....perhaps the doctors may not have spent as much time as they should have with this mother and her crippling fears...they may not have recognized her paralyzing fears and she probably didn't open up enough either....

I just feel terrible for everyone involved and while debating this, with them on the run, this boy could be essentially getting a death sentence....

so why shouldnt they have the right to not take the chemo if they choose not to?

 

[AllieBaba]

There are kids who will put kittens in the water bucket and watch them die (this was my nephew).

when children harm or kill animals it is generally considered one of the signs of sociopathy.

violent criminals
were more likely to have abused pets,
stray animals, wild animals and farm
animals when they were children.
The acts of abuse towards animals
were more than just kicking a dog. They
were cruel and often gruesome.
Examples include stomping a kitten to
death and setting a dog on fire. These
violent criminals rarely said they were
sorry or felt bad about hurting the
animals. In some cases, the type of
abuse they committed on animals was
like the acts they later committed on
people.

http://www.st-johns.org/services/pa...5/Children Who Hurt Animals Must Get Help.pdf

He's a genius who is curious about how things work, always has been. And his parents used kid gloves around him as a child and refused to use negative reinforcement for any behavior.

He's gifted, and is a kind and loving person. He just had to figure out what it's like to feel anguish and pain, and his parents weren't willing to subject him to that at a young age. You can't be empathetic if you've never felt any distress yourself, and he'd never felt any distress.

Though believe me, those of us in the family who DID use coporal punishment on our kids definitely had reservations about him, lol. The trend did not contiue. T

Morality is taught, but children can learn it and internalize it at a very young age.

 

[AllieBaba]

BTW, he got some negative reinforcement when he was older, and it was a huge eye-opener for him. He's a good kid (though hardly a kid now...24 y.o. and in college)

 

[Care4all]

I think that is correct. Sounds like they are afraid of the chemo because in their minds chemo kills people.

It's amazing how wrong people can be.

the thing is though, chemo does kill people....not that these that die were not destine to die anyway, but chemo is a poison, a poison that kills cancer, but it kills good cells too and it is a delicate mixture of getting enough chemo to poison the cancer cells without killing you as well... they are much better at it now than they were in 1988 when my father in law had treatments....

IT IS SCARY.....perhaps the doctors may not have spent as much time as they should have with this mother and her crippling fears...they may not have recognized her paralyzing fears and she probably didn't open up enough either....

I just feel terrible for everyone involved and while debating this, with them on the run, this boy could be essentially getting a death sentence....

so why shouldnt they have the right to not take the chemo if they choose not to?

because it does constitute medical neglect, described under law, imo....

the treatment she chose, is killing him, his cancer is spreading, sitting back and just letting that happen seems inhumane to me, especially since the 13 yr old, learning disabled boy does NOT thoroughly understand the circumstance he is in and the mother's fears and irrational behavior have been indoctrinated of sorts in to him without him being given a full explanation that he could understand...again, imo.

he was appointed a guardian that was suppose to meet with him and go over everything with him and address the boys concerns as well...

letting him die, possibly not really understanding all involved, is not an option for me...

care

 

[AllieBaba]

Chemo is undoubtedly inhumane. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

If my sick child who might die anyway begged me to stop treatments, I'd have to be very, VERY sure that the treatment was going to work. 90 percent would be good enough for me. But I'm not convinced that there aren't mitigating factors in this case. For example, they caught it to late and the chemo was a long shot. Nobody's addressing that. Nobody's addressing anything of relevance.

 

[DiveCon]

the thing is though, chemo does kill people....not that these that die were not destine to die anyway, but chemo is a poison, a poison that kills cancer, but it kills good cells too and it is a delicate mixture of getting enough chemo to poison the cancer cells without killing you as well... they are much better at it now than they were in 1988 when my father in law had treatments....

IT IS SCARY.....perhaps the doctors may not have spent as much time as they should have with this mother and her crippling fears...they may not have recognized her paralyzing fears and she probably didn't open up enough either....

I just feel terrible for everyone involved and while debating this, with them on the run, this boy could be essentially getting a death sentence....

so why shouldnt they have the right to not take the chemo if they choose not to?

because it does constitute medical neglect, described under law, imo....

the treatment she chose, is killing him, his cancer is spreading, sitting back and just letting that happen seems inhumane to me, especially since the 13 yr old, learning disabled boy does NOT thoroughly understand the circumstance he is in and the mother's fears and irrational behavior have been indoctrinated of sorts in to him without him being given a full explanation that he could understand...again, imo.

he was appointed a guardian that was suppose to meet with him and go over everything with him and address the boys concerns as well...

letting him die, possibly not really understanding all involved, is not an option for me...

care

the treatment she is avoiding could kill him
seems to me she should have that choice

 

[AllieBaba]

"Less likely than NHL to be diagnosed in stage IV (10%). Hodgkin's disease usually progresses in an orderly way from one lymph node region to the next. This process may be slow, particularly in younger people, or very aggressive. The disease typically spreads downward from the initial site. If it spreads below the diaphragm, it usually reaches the spleen first; the disease then may spread to the liver and bone marrow. If the disease starts in the nodes in the middle of the chest, it may spread outward to the chest wall and areas around the heart and lungs."
Hodgkin's disease
The good news about Hodgkin's disease is that treatment can cure the disease. The bad news is that survivors face a higher than average risk for long-term complications of these treatments, some very serious.

Many patients may experience chronic fatigue that could persist for years. One study indicated that aerobic exercise may significantly improve fatigue; in doing so it could have a positive effect on mood as well.

The most serious complications are secondary cancers and heart disease, which occur over the 2 - 3 decades following treatments. Secondary cancers include non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, leukemia, melanoma, stomach and lung cancers, and breast and uterine cancers. Heart disease complications include coronary artery disease, stroke, heart valve problems, and cardiomyopathy (weakening of the heart muscle). Thyroid disorders are also a potential complication. Combinations of radiation and chemotherapies are especially associated with these problems.

A 2006 study in the New England Journal of Medicine evaluated the long-term health status of adult survivors of various childhood cancers. The study found that, 30 years after treatment, patients with Hodgkins disease had among the highest risk of developing serious health problems.

 

[Ravi]

Chemo is undoubtedly inhumane. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

If my sick child who might die anyway begged me to stop treatments, I'd have to be very, VERY sure that the treatment was going to work. 90 percent would be good enough for me. But I'm not convinced that there aren't mitigating factors in this case. For example, they caught it to late and the chemo was a long shot. Nobody's addressing that. Nobody's addressing anything of relevance.

I'm glad you aren't my mother.

 

[Care4all]

so why shouldnt they have the right to not take the chemo if they choose not to?

because it does constitute medical neglect, described under law, imo....

the treatment she chose, is killing him, his cancer is spreading, sitting back and just letting that happen seems inhumane to me, especially since the 13 yr old, learning disabled boy does NOT thoroughly understand the circumstance he is in and the mother's fears and irrational behavior have been indoctrinated of sorts in to him without him being given a full explanation that he could understand...again, imo.

he was appointed a guardian that was suppose to meet with him and go over everything with him and address the boys concerns as well...

letting him die, possibly not really understanding all involved, is not an option for me...

care

the treatment she is avoiding could kill him
seems to me she should have that choice

there's a certain 80% to 96% chance that it could save him... from dying.

 

[DiveCon]

because it does constitute medical neglect, described under law, imo....

the treatment she chose, is killing him, his cancer is spreading, sitting back and just letting that happen seems inhumane to me, especially since the 13 yr old, learning disabled boy does NOT thoroughly understand the circumstance he is in and the mother's fears and irrational behavior have been indoctrinated of sorts in to him without him being given a full explanation that he could understand...again, imo.

he was appointed a guardian that was suppose to meet with him and go over everything with him and address the boys concerns as well...

letting him die, possibly not really understanding all involved, is not an option for me...

care

the treatment she is avoiding could kill him
seems to me she should have that choice

there's a certain 80% to 96% chance that it could save him... from dying.

so??
i still side with Parental rights

 

[Zoom-boing]

you're defending them killing the kid because they SAY its their religious belief. But I've never known a Catholic who would refuse medicine on religious grounds.

if this were a chicken bone shaking voodoo mama would you be saying the same thing?

Again, why are the people who are defending this the same people who wouldn't let liquified brain Terry Schiavo go to her rest?

I'm serious.... I really don't understand.

No, I'm defending them being allowed to choose an alternative treatment. Yes he may die . . . or he may be cured. Yes the prognosis is very good with chemo but the parents want to pursue an alternative method. And that they are R.C., I'm sure they are praying. Is that bunk as well?

Catholicism doesn't forbid any kind of medical intervention but they also follow the Nemenhah Band that believes in natural healing methods.

The Hausers are Roman Catholic and also believe in the "do no harm" philosophy of the Nemenhah Band, a Missouri-based religious group that believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians.
The Associated Press: Arrest ordered for mom of boy, 13, resisting chemo

But it's not a shaking voodoo mama, it's an alternative, natural method.

I've never said anything about Terry Schaivo, sorry.

Jillian, I've gone rounds and rounds with doctors with my son and they all 'knew what was best' and were all 'best in the field' and they offered what they knew, which were meds. BTDT. Know what worked best for my son's rampant behavioral problems? A four year gluten-free diet. I had docs scoff at me and call it hogwash . . . but altering his diet and incorporating various supplements helped more than meds. Yes, I'm aware this situation is different; just trying to explain my POV. I have no doubt that my personal experience with my son over the past 16 years colors my point of view.

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I thought I heard him (the spokesperson) say they believe and use conventional medical treatment but not chemicals, which is what chemo is.

 

[Care4all]

No, I'm defending them being allowed to choose an alternative treatment. Yes he may die . . . or he may be cured. Yes the prognosis is very good with chemo but the parents want to pursue an alternative method. And that they are R.C., I'm sure they are praying. Is that bunk as well?

Catholicism doesn't forbid any kind of medical intervention but they also follow the Nemenhah Band that believes in natural healing methods.



But it's not a shaking voodoo mama, it's an alternative, natural method.

I've never said anything about Terry Schaivo, sorry.

Jillian, I've gone rounds and rounds with doctors with my son and they all 'knew what was best' and were all 'best in the field' and they offered what they knew, which were meds. BTDT. Know what worked best for my son's rampant behavioral problems? A four year gluten-free diet. I had docs scoff at me and call it hogwash . . . but altering his diet and incorporating various supplements helped more than meds. Yes, I'm aware this situation is different; just trying to explain my POV. I have no doubt that my personal experience with my son over the past 16 years colors my point of view.

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I thought I heard him (the spokesperson) say they believe and use conventional medical treatment but not chemicals, which is what chemo is.

i didn't hear the, but not chemical, from him....maybe i missed it?

 

[Zoom-boing]

the Nemenhah band DOES BELIEVE in the use of traditional medical help, if there is no natural means to CURE, is what the spokesman said zoom.

Since the alternative method HAS NOT WORKED the past 4 months and his cancer has SPREAD, i'm certain the Nemenhah would recommend going through conventional medical means to CURE him.

I thought I heard him (the spokesperson) say they believe and use conventional medical treatment but not chemicals, which is what chemo is.

i didn't hear the, but not chemical, from him....maybe i missed it?

It was very near the end. I admit I was on my way out and had stopped posting on here (I'd basically just been posting what was being said on the show). I thought that's what he said though. Could be mistaken.