CDZ More re: Behaviors - What percentage of people on USMB...

[Mac1958]

Being defenseless or letting people preach at us, is for me a bad, bad idea, and I'm not going to let it happen.

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

I've changed my mind on one thing in this area over the last couple of years - I used to think that anyone could change their behavior and ultimately be a part of a conversation that creates some healing and progress. I don't believe that any more. There are a lot of people (and the population is pretty well-represented here) who simply will not be a part of that conversation. They're just simply too far gone, and will need to somehow be marginalized and/or ignored so that the rest can go about the heavy lifting of getting us past this.

The crazed preachers are part of the problem, and they most likely won't change. The rest will have to get the work done.
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[Olde Europe]

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

I've changed my mind on one thing in this area over the last couple of years - I used to think that anyone could change their behavior and ultimately be a part of a conversation that creates some healing and progress. I don't believe that any more. There are a lot of people (and the population is pretty well-represented here) who simply will not be a part of that conversation. They're just simply too far gone, and will need to somehow be marginalized and/or ignored so that the rest can go about the heavy lifting of getting us past this.

The crazed preachers are part of the problem, and they most likely won't change. The rest will have to get the work done.
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There are lots of good reasons to lay into Circe, most notably the almost complete absence of fact / reality in said poster's postings.

Please describe what exactly, in your opinion, needs "healing". Bear in mind that differences of opinion, and political opinion in particular, are not a disease, and thus need not be healed.

Once that's well defined, give us your account as to the modes of "conversation" required to bring this healing about, and how this "healing" is supposed to work.

 

[sparky]

Has anyone here read flowers for algernon?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Has anyone here read flowers for algernon?

yes.

In 1965

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

I've changed my mind on one thing in this area over the last couple of years - I used to think that anyone could change their behavior and ultimately be a part of a conversation that creates some healing and progress. I don't believe that any more. There are a lot of people (and the population is pretty well-represented here) who simply will not be a part of that conversation. They're just simply too far gone, and will need to somehow be marginalized and/or ignored so that the rest can go about the heavy lifting of getting us past this.

The crazed preachers are part of the problem, and they most likely won't change. The rest will have to get the work done.
.

There are lots of good reasons to lay into Circe, most notably the almost complete absence of fact / reality in said poster's postings.

Please describe what exactly, in your opinion, needs "healing". Bear in mind that differences of opinion, and political opinion in particular, are not a disease, and thus need not be healed.

Once that's well defined, give us your account as to the modes of "conversation" required to bring this healing about, and how this "healing" is supposed to work.

If you are trying to prove all of Mac's observations correct, you are doing an awfully good job of it.

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

I've changed my mind on one thing in this area over the last couple of years - I used to think that anyone could change their behavior and ultimately be a part of a conversation that creates some healing and progress. I don't believe that any more. There are a lot of people (and the population is pretty well-represented here) who simply will not be a part of that conversation. They're just simply too far gone, and will need to somehow be marginalized and/or ignored so that the rest can go about the heavy lifting of getting us past this.

The crazed preachers are part of the problem, and they most likely won't change. The rest will have to get the work done.
.

There are lots of good reasons to lay into Circe, most notably the almost complete absence of fact / reality in said poster's postings.

Please describe what exactly, in your opinion, needs "healing". Bear in mind that differences of opinion, and political opinion in particular, are not a disease, and thus need not be healed.

Once that's well defined, give us your account as to the modes of "conversation" required to bring this healing about, and how this "healing" is supposed to work.

If you are trying to prove all of Mac's observations correct, you are doing an awfully good job of it.

Happens all the time.

A weird mix of flattering and creepy.
.

 

[sparky]

Has anyone here read flowers for algernon?

yes.

In 1965

see.....they tried to 'heal' him too .....~S~

 

[Olde Europe]

Happens all the time.

A weird mix of flattering and creepy.
.

Let's just say, Mac, if - IF - an effort at healing is truly required, you sure aren't part of it. For your behavior is one of utter disrespect for any and all who disagree with you, in conjunction with ignoring most who reject your behavior.

I contend, no such effort at healing is necessary. What's required is a solid respect for facts, for they are the basis for anything we would justifiably call a "debate", and the only ground for reliable consensus, even bridging political divides. The reason for that is that the facts are the only candidates for solid anchors - like establishing the situation a country faces, and what the best way to cope with it would be - so as to ground even widely diverging political preferences.

That's where your near complete disregard for facts, and the single-minded focus on posters and their behavior, bites you into your arse, intellectually speaking.

That's probably another thing we find on here, and with the same prevalence in real life. Why would anyone who routinely disrespects and disregards facts on here suddenly develop respect for same during debates offline? That would be hard to explain.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Happens all the time.

A weird mix of flattering and creepy.
.

Let's just say, Mac, if - IF - an effort at healing is truly required, you sure aren't part of it. For your behavior is one of utter disrespect for any and all who disagree with you, in conjunction with ignoring most who reject your behavior.

I contend, no such effort at healing is necessary. What's required is a solid respect for facts, for they are the basis for anything we would justifiably call a "debate", and the only ground for reliable consensus, even bridging political divides. The reason for that is that the facts are the only candidates for solid anchors - like establishing the situation a country faces, and what the best way to cope with it would be - so as to ground even widely diverging political preferences.

That's where your near complete disregard for facts, and the single-minded focus on posters and their behavior, bites you into your arse, intellectually speaking.

That's probably another thing we find on here, and with the same prevalence in real life. Why would anyone who routinely disrespects and disregards facts on here suddenly develop respect for same during debates offline? That would be hard to explain.

So, let me get this right -- the fellow who is capable of independent thought while critiquing both sides is "disrespectful", while the extreme partisan who has been insulting anybody who does not march in lockstep with his de rigueur extreme left orthodoxy isn't?

 

[mdk]

I am the same way here as I am in real life: an incorrigible smartass.

 

[Circe]

Has anyone here read flowers for algernon?

yes.

In 1965

Yeah.....also in 1965. Had something to do with rats, and a retarded guy, and a lawnmower, right?

I'm not getting any memory of things transcendental, in my case.

 

[Circe]

I've changed my mind on one thing in this area over the last couple of years - I used to think that anyone could change their behavior and ultimately be a part of a conversation that creates some healing and progress. I don't believe that any more. There are a lot of people (and the population is pretty well-represented here) who simply will not be a part of that conversation. They're just simply too far gone, and will need to somehow be marginalized and/or ignored so that the rest can go about the heavy lifting of getting us past this.

Yeah...….I am pessimistic about this country continuing (nobody reads three books about the 1850s if they aren't pessimistic about the US) BUT I realize now that there have been other times when the U.S. almost broke up, but it didn't. 1932--36 when there were the Hoovertown camps outside Washington (protesters in force) and then the dangerous Vietnam protestors of 100% college students, when the government simply stopped the draft cold to make the protests go away, and it worked. It's ridiculous this huge country is still in one piece in all these decades since 1865. No other such expanse of land has stayed politically intact ANYWHERE in the world. People think "it can't happen here" because they don't read any history, but it's in fact a unique situation.

All the same, it stayed one nation in 1936 and 1968, so maybe it can weather even this disunity. Anything is possible. Nothing has happened until after it has happened.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

It's usually the people who go looking for trouble who find trouble the fastest. And it's those same people who, when they find trouble, aren't ready for it when they're met with it.

 

[Andylusion]

As we know, an internet message board provides both anonymity and, as a result, an opportunity to be more aggressive and anti-social for those who are not like that in "real life".

What percentage of people here, in your opinion, act like this in real life?

Given the general decay in public behaviors over the last several years, I suspect that the percentage has increased. I'd say that around 30% to 40% of the behaviors we see here by our more aggressive posters are also seen in real life.

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

Your estimate, hopefully without insults, deflection or name-calling - as comically ironic as that would be?
.

Well... I think I am about the same.

Typically I respond to people in real life, at the level they engage with me. Just like on this forum. I am highly unlikely to attack you personally, until you attack me. Then typically I toss back at you, everything you toss at me.

I used to think I was different in real life, but I had a lady tell me I couldn't talk about a topic, because I was a white male. I responded we couldn't trust her opinion because she was personally invested in the topic, and like a researcher paid by the cigarette companies, she was biased and her opinion wasn't to be trusted.

This happened at work. So I surprised myself with how quickly I tossed it back in her face.

I think the one major difference between how I act here, and how I act in real life, is that I typically avoid talking about political topics in real life. The main reason is, here is specifically setup for political discussion. All you have to do is look at the all the titles of the sub-forums, to figure out this is a place designed for political talk.

In real life, people are not waiting around to talk about the pros and cons of the minimum wage.

Additionally, complex topis, require complex answers. Most of real life isn't setup for such discussions. I can't stop working in the middle of the day, to talk to the guy next to me, about how the minimum wage was created specifically to prevent minorities from competing with whites.

And lastly, while many people make comments about topics, few actually want to discus it.

So, I am far more likely to hear someone say something trite about a topic, and never respond, because they really don't want to talk about it. They just want to do a sound bite response, and move on.

Now if they specifically ask what my opinion is, I will give it for sure.

But regardless, I tend to be one of the most polite people you could ever meet. If you do something to piss me off, my most likely response is to simply not talk to you. You have to work very hard to actually make me both angry, and respond. And then I tend to scare myself, so I try not to get to that place.

 

[Preacher]

As we know, an internet message board provides both anonymity and, as a result, an opportunity to be more aggressive and anti-social for those who are not like that in "real life".

What percentage of people here, in your opinion, act like this in real life?

Given the general decay in public behaviors over the last several years, I suspect that the percentage has increased. I'd say that around 30% to 40% of the behaviors we see here by our more aggressive posters are also seen in real life.

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

Your estimate, hopefully without insults, deflection or name-calling - as comically ironic as that would be?
.

I am less aggressive IN GENERAL in real life than I am on here. If someone attacks me in real life oh I am just as mean as I can be on here.. I will destroy someone I can get very violent and have road rage when dealing with idiots. I dealt with some asshole who whined about me SITTING in front of a store waiting on my wife and mother to come out because it was raining and they had a lot of stuff to load,I was sitting there smoking and he says can't you read? That right there got my guard up and he starts ranting and raving about people like me are ruining this country because the sign says no parking,I told him to fuck off or I was gonna cripple his other leg,he keeps ranting I am gonna call my friends at the police department...and? Go ahead jack ass. I had my knife and pistol with me but never felt the need to take either out but if someone verbally assaults me I can hit back 100 times harder much like President Trump does. Just last night some PIG was out with his PIG pals harassing drivers at a 4 way stop and wanted to harass me about my child I produced being unbuckled because she was sleeping in the back seat in the vehicle I paid cash for on roads my tax dollars pay for and I was the same way to him,he said well you can come to court or pay the 50$ ticket I said oh I will be coming to court,my kid,my vehicle FUCK OFF! I can easily afford the 50$ ticket but its the principal of it,none of the governments business what I do in my vehicle when I am not harming other people. I will drag this shit out for a year just like I do with seatbelt tickets and hope he doesn't show up once and it gets dismissed,there is a BIG city just 10 miles away they could have been looking for actual criminals in but they are on a back road at a 4 way stop harassing people.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I am the same way here as I am in real life: an incorrigible smartass.

and bon vivant.

don't forget that.

 

[sparky]

People think "it can't happen here" because they don't read any history, but it's in fact a unique situation.

I firmly believe America is turning towards fascism by degree, yet the thread asking for examples was summarily dismissed to this forums rubber room , along with the slings and arrows of deniers in a hail of reducto absurdum ,who apparently 'don't read any history'

the Hoovertown camps outside Washington

Doesn't fit alongside the vietnam protests at all, sorry....

~S~

 

[Mac1958]

So, let me get this right -- the fellow who is capable of independent thought while critiquing both sides is "disrespectful", while the extreme partisan who has been insulting anybody who does not march in lockstep with his de rigueur extreme left orthodoxy isn't?

This is how it works.

Those who are part of the problem know, at some level, that their behaviors are wrong and counterproductive. That they are better than that. So when their behaviors are pointed out they choose to change the subject and attack the messenger rather than directly and honestly address the behaviors and their negative effects.

It would be smarter to just avoid the conversation entirely, but like a moth to a flame, their egos and self esteem just won't let them.

The sheer volume of material available for amateur psychological / sociological / anthropological study on this topic just doesn't end, and USMB is a fantastic one stop shop.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Yeah, the number of people who are all too ready to lay into you for any good reason seems to be increasing.

It's usually the people who go looking for trouble who find trouble the fastest. And it's those same people who, when they find trouble, aren't ready for it when they're met with it.

Very true.
.

 

[Mac1958]

As we know, an internet message board provides both anonymity and, as a result, an opportunity to be more aggressive and anti-social for those who are not like that in "real life".

What percentage of people here, in your opinion, act like this in real life?

Given the general decay in public behaviors over the last several years, I suspect that the percentage has increased. I'd say that around 30% to 40% of the behaviors we see here by our more aggressive posters are also seen in real life.

One significant caveat: I don't think those who are overtly racist against minorities say these things in public. I'd put that down at about 3% to 5%, for obvious reasons.

Your estimate, hopefully without insults, deflection or name-calling - as comically ironic as that would be?
.

Well... I think I am about the same.

Typically I respond to people in real life, at the level they engage with me. Just like on this forum. I am highly unlikely to attack you personally, until you attack me. Then typically I toss back at you, everything you toss at me.

I used to think I was different in real life, but I had a lady tell me I couldn't talk about a topic, because I was a white male. I responded we couldn't trust her opinion because she was personally invested in the topic, and like a researcher paid by the cigarette companies, she was biased and her opinion wasn't to be trusted.

This happened at work. So I surprised myself with how quickly I tossed it back in her face.

I think the one major difference between how I act here, and how I act in real life, is that I typically avoid talking about political topics in real life. The main reason is, here is specifically setup for political discussion. All you have to do is look at the all the titles of the sub-forums, to figure out this is a place designed for political talk.

In real life, people are not waiting around to talk about the pros and cons of the minimum wage.

Additionally, complex topis, require complex answers. Most of real life isn't setup for such discussions. I can't stop working in the middle of the day, to talk to the guy next to me, about how the minimum wage was created specifically to prevent minorities from competing with whites.

And lastly, while many people make comments about topics, few actually want to discus it.

So, I am far more likely to hear someone say something trite about a topic, and never respond, because they really don't want to talk about it. They just want to do a sound bite response, and move on.

Now if they specifically ask what my opinion is, I will give it for sure.

But regardless, I tend to be one of the most polite people you could ever meet. If you do something to piss me off, my most likely response is to simply not talk to you. You have to work very hard to actually make me both angry, and respond. And then I tend to scare myself, so I try not to get to that place.

It really does seem that one of the main differences between people now is a simple filtering mechanism.

I'm the same way - when confronted with an opportunity to get back in someone's face after they've gotten, uh, weird, I just usually choose not to. It seems pretty obvious to me that there is nothing I can say, there is no way I can say it, that will make a difference at that moment. And I have no emotional need to wound them to make myself "feel" better.

I do, however, take every advantage to engage them in conversation in real life, and it usually takes the form of me asking many questions. I'm certainly not going to change their mind on anything, but it's definitely interesting to know what they're thinking and how their thought processes work. I do some of that here, too, and it's often interesting.

Whether its here or in real life, I've had many conversations with people on the far end of either spectrum, simply because I don't attack them personally. Just let 'em talk, and just listen. We can learn a lot that way.

I admit, I don't make as much effort to do that here as in real life. You can't do it online, because people have a persona to protect. You can't look them in the eye, note their mannerisms and coax honesty out of them. So this place is more for observation than anything else.
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